Nylander Chronicles Part XXIV: Homer's Odyssey Edition

[DarkKnight]

Dubas looks like a fool now. “Can and will sign*.

Tavares contract is going to hurt the leafs big time.

If you forget the fact we got Tavares, so painful.

 

[hotpaws]

If teams are so willing to pay Nylander’s ask how come nobody has offer-sheeted him?

because they know the Leafs have the cap space to match and that's why they're trying to arrange a trade

 

[DarkKnight]

so your

because they know the Leafs have the cap space to match and that's why they're trying to arrange a trade

Every single thing we've heard around the league is nobody thinks Willie is an 8 plus player at this time.

 

[34]

If you forget the fact we got Tavares, so painful.

It would have been better if the Leafs lost the Tavares sweepstakes. He is already massively declining and likely going to get worse. We lost Nylander because of him, and don’t be surprised is Matthews refuses to sign as well.

 

[hotpaws]

LOL do you go to the troll school of internet posting?

Day 1 Strawmen and how to use them
Day 2 Ad Hominems for great effect
Day 3 Weaving the fabric of false dichotomies
Day 4 Combinations for the win.

You are beautiful LOL.

so i'm a troll because i believe any GM with half a brain would see what a rfa is asking for before i tried to make a deal for him ?

sure this goes against the Me-Willie crowd who only want to believe Willie's being unreasonable but hey i've always been a fan of the team first unlike some who believe the GM (Burke/Dube) is the star attraction

 

[Marshy]

It’d likely cost 4 first rounders.

I guess Dubas should hold out for equivalent value in trade then. Since that's the value the Nylander camp seems to be setting.

 

[hotpaws]

Every single thing we've heard around the league is nobody thinks Willie is an 8 plus player at this time.

we've just heard half the league wants to trade for him , maybe that means he isn't asking for 8m since it's never been confirmed that is what he's holding out for

 

[Semantics]

Dubas looks like a fool now. “Can and will sign*.

Tavares contract is going to hurt the leafs big time.

That's ridiculous. It's not like they were going to overpay Nylander if they didn't sign Tavares.

 

[Nineteen67]

so your

because they know the Leafs have the cap space to match and that's why they're trying to arrange a trade

I not sure the Leafs would get better than 4 1st rounder in a trade for Willy. That’s quite steep.

I’m sure the Leafscwould match of the offer sheet was on the low end (45 million) but may take the 4 picks if it’s on the high end (60 million.).
I think the compensation calculations are based on a five yr period so 45 million/5yr would get you 4 1st rounders.
Again I think that’s how that works.

 

[Leafs1993]

It would have been better if the Leafs lost the Tavares sweepstakes. He is already massively declining and likely going to get worse. We lost Nylander because of him, and don’t be surprised is Matthews refuses to sign as well.

Can’t tell if your trolling or serious... he has 13 points in 12 games. Also Nylander is still here and Matthews will not leave because of JT. I bet Crosby hates having Malkin and winning all those cups

 

[CBinTokyo]

so i'm a troll because i believe any GM with half a brain would see what a rfa is asking for before i tried to make a deal for him ?

sure this goes against the Me-Willie crowd who only want to believe Willie's being unreasonable but hey i've always been a fan of the team first unlike some who believe the GM (Burke/Dube) is the star attraction

No, I asked if you went the troll school of internet posting because you so beautifully crafted so many logical fallacies into such short space that I was wondering if you were trained, or just a savant!

 

[Semantics]

The Tavares signing has ****ed this team big time. He is not even close to $11M superstar. He is not a superstar at all. That contact is going to be dead weight moving forward.

He was a UFA, that's the going rate for buying a player without having to give up an asset. Karlsson will sign for a similar amount.

Nylander can get overpaid in 5 years when he's a UFA. He's not going to be overpaid before then by the Leafs.

Nylander is asking for UFA market rate when he's a RFA and needs to be happy with the RFA market rate. Simple.

 

[hotpaws]

I not sure the Leafs would get better than 4 1st rounder in a trade for Willy. That’s quite steep.

I’m sure the Leafscwould match of the offer sheet was on the low end (45 million) but may take the 4 picks if it’s on the high end (60 million.).
I think the compensation calculations are based on a five yr period so 45 million/5yr would get you 4 1st rounders.
Again I think that’s how that works.

no one's going to give him an offer that results in four 1sts as compensation , it'd be an offer that comp is a 1st/2nd/3rd

 

[Nineteen67]

I guess Dubas should hold out for equivalent value in trade then. Since that's the value the Nylander camp seems to be setting.

Not every team would have 4 1st round picks.

I would look at Boston, Dallas or Colorado’s prospects or a similar team that needs another goal scorer and get as many guys a no more than a year away and some draft high draft picks. Rather than an aging D.

 

[Nineteen67]

no one's going to give him an offer that results in four 1sts as compensation , it'd be an offer that comp is a 1st/2nd/3rd

That’s well under 45 million so I doubt Willy would accept.

 

[hotpaws]

No, I asked if you went the troll school of internet posting because you so beautifully crafted so many logical fallacies into such short space that I was wondering if you were trained, or just a savant!

maybe you can put down the pom poms and tell me exactly why my point of view is trolling ?

 

[hotpaws]

That’s well under 45 million so I doubt Willy would accept.

over 5 yrs he would

 

[Nineteen67]

over 5 yrs he would

If the AAV is over 8.1 mill it’s 4 firsts.

You think he’d get 40 over 5.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It would have been better if the Leafs lost the Tavares sweepstakes. He is already massively declining and likely going to get worse. We lost Nylander because of him, and don’t be surprised is Matthews refuses to sign as well.

This is what I imagine you look like posting this nonsense.

 

[Leafs1993]

over 5 yrs he would

That would be very stupid for a GM to do IMO. That would bring him right to free agency and by the look of Nylander camps they will definitely be shopping around again then. While those picks potentially flop, there’s also potential to get a great cost controlled asset.

 

[Nineteen67]

If anyone with cap space is willing to pay him 8 x5 they have Dubas over a barrel..... put in the offer sheet if Dubas doesn’t like the trade offer.

I like it. Hope it happens.

 

[CBinTokyo]

maybe you can put down the pom poms and tell me exactly why my point of view is trolling ?

Nah I'll keep the pom poms...

But wow! So much and so little time so I'll keep this brief.

1) I never said you were trolling.
2) The Pom pom stuff is beautiful just masterclass.
3) Never said your point of view was trolling or even wrong except one point....I think that assuming Nylander's ask is reasonable based on the fact that there is trade discussion around him is jumping to a conclusion.

Your response to that contained a number of logical fallacies. Your continued posts contain a ton of aggression not geared towards discussion.

For example, "put down the Pom poms"... or implying a counter opinion is "Homerism"...this is designed not to encourage discussion... It would be the same as if I started this "So much and so little time so I'll keep this brief so even you can understand."

See the difference? The first promotes discussion, the second is me being an ass.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

That's ridiculous. It's not like they were going to overpay Nylander if they didn't sign Tavares.

But these negotiations are likely more then about money now but more so about opportunities to make even more money down the line. Leafs signing Tavares more or less meant the end for William being anything else then some ones winger. Something I guess he for personal reasons does not see him self as and for financial reasons will mean less money now and in the future when the 3rd contract is signed.

 

[Not My Tempo]

The Tavares signing has ****ed this team big time. He is not even close to $11M superstar. He is not a superstar at all. That contact is going to be dead weight moving forward.

We’re paying 6.25 M to a 3rd line winger and 4.5 to a bottom pairing defensemen but signing a top 15 C to 11 M is what’s going to do us in? And even if we had the cap space, signing Nylander to 8 M is still overpaying for him.

 

[hotpaws]

That would be very stupid for a GM to do IMO. That would bring him right to free agency and by the look of Nylander camps they will definitely be shopping around again then. While those picks potentially flop, there’s also potential to get a great cost controlled asset.

depends on the team

if i'm a good team i'd easily give up a mid/late 1st/2nd/3rd for 5 prime years of Willie

sure that would f*** the Leafs but i doubt that'll be high on there list of things that concern them

 

[ITM]

Dubas looks like a fool now. “Can and will sign*.

Tavares contract is going to hurt the leafs big time.

Tavares' contract has nothing to do with Dubas' ability to sign the big three and nothing to do with William Nylander's current position. Had Toronto never signed Tavares would William Nylander have signed before the season started or held out? I think Nylander still opts to continue negotiations past the first game of the season.

The strong suspicion should be that Dubas's group ran numbers and scenarios and contingencies of contingencies before their Tavares pitch in LA. Pridham's reputation as a "capologist" precedes him in the NHL. Gilman came equally lauded. These aren't "foolish" hockey professionals by any reasonable consideration.

More's the point, what hockey team's management group provides a position of weakness or transparency of expected difficulty in business dealings with the media prior to negotiating contracts let alone in the context of what amounts to the future foundation of a young hockey club?

If the criteria for Dubas looking like a fool is positivity, I suppose if a person wanted nothing to do with precedent and clarity, one could argue Dubas "looks" like a fool...to whose standard would be the follow-up question.

Barring something incidental as an incomplete process as November approaches out of the way, it must be that Dubas looks like a fool for:

• Not signing Nylander to a cap above his comparables e.g. Gaudreau and Pastrnak and Ehlers.
• Not signing Nylander to a term longer than his comparables i.e. 6 years.
• Not signing Nylander to the above plus including a ironclad NTC/NMC.

If the above is an accurate description of Dubas' position, then I'll applaud our GM again when and if the information is ever confirmed.

See, I can't see our management group undercutting Nylander with so many obvious comparisons to draw from and with Matthews and Marner yet to sign. Especially not after publicly declaring the ability to sign all three while having recently signed two of the most competent and specialized hockey managers available and on the heels of signing John Tavares after having just won the Calder Cup. It's a management group moving from win to win to hopeful win.

The kind of presumption necessary that drives a narrative depicting these men as reaching in the dark for resolutions to unanticipated problems is one that oddly and happily imagines it to be. And we simply have no reasonable evidence to believe that that's the case.

And too many to believe that our management group is trying to do the right thing by us.