Confirmed with Link: Nylander changing his number to #88 and received WC Best Man Award

[saffronleaf]

Whole team went through a rough patch when Nylander joined. The short amount of time Nylander was paired with Matthews was actually pretty awful -- not sure it got a fair shake. When everyone started clicking again I think Babcock just didn't want to screw it up. Balance 3 lines, etc...

When was that? The team played awful the second half of the season and stumbled into the playoffs. We were a one line team (JT line), and unfortunately that one line didn't do much in the playoffs.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

When was that? The team played awful the second half of the season and stumbled into the playoffs. We were a one line team (JT line), and unfortunately that one line didn't do much in the playoffs.

Recall them having one of the better records in the last 15 games or so.

 

[Bluelines]

No, I provided an example of a "skill" player that started playing in December and was able to contribute right away.

I did so because when I suggested it wouldn't take Hyman 20 games to get into form after his layoff, I was told it was different for "skill" players.

But your indignation is noted, though misguided.

Which you would think people with the education above 3rd grade would get. The original poster you replied to previously made an absolute statement, you were, and succinctly, showing that his absolute statement is false.

Hyman wont take as long to getup to speed because his work ethic impeccable, Nylander well... not so much, thank god he is skilled.

 

[Nithoniniel]

What kind of qualities can recover quickly at the NHL level would be an interesting conversation if it wasn't so obvious that it would turn into a ****show within minutes.

 

[Bluelines]

No, you gave an example of a Generational player that started playing in December and was able to contribute right away.

So generational means he's not skilled?

 

[egd27]

Which you would think people with the education above 3rd grade would get. The original poster you replied to previously made an absolute statement, you were, and succinctly, showing that his absolute statement is false.

Hyman wont take as long to getup to speed because his work ethic impeccable, Nylander well... not so much, thank god he is skilled.

Thank you.

I didn't think anyone would actually conclude that I was attempting to compare Lemieux and Nylander as players. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

It’s sort of a given that skilled players will be off slightly with a long layoff.
In nylander’s case he was obviously rusty and that compounded with some extreme poor luck (which is enforced by his career low PDO), has led to this inane discussion.
Lemieux is a poor example simply because he had the ability to put up 2ppg throughout most of his career and was under that for that season.
The points he put up after returning from 44 months layoff don’t really show anything aside from the fact he could be considered GOAT.

 

[MyBudJT]

Sad part is seeing Babcock blame Kadri for not being able to play Nylander with Matthews when he almost never allowed that to happen last season when we had a healthy lineup. Threw Kadri under the bus to save himself.

Do you know who Nylander’s most common linemate was last season?

 

[egd27]

No much better comparable tier wise, but nylander outscored O'Reilly in his hold out year so maybe you should rethink your stance?

I think you've lost the original plot.

How is it that guys can be out for 6-8 weeks with an injury that limits their ability to train, and return to the line up and start contributing almost immediately?

Putting aside the skill gap, do you think Hyman will take 4-6 weeks to get back to his form if he misses camp and the first month of the season due to the surgery? What about Dermott?

Can't use Hyman as an example of a returning player............not as skilled
Cant' use Lemieux as an example of a returning player..........far too skilled

O'Reilly? Ok.....but Nylander out pointed him by 7 in his 54 games (O'Reilly played 29) so I should rethink my stance.

Here's the point as clearly as I believe I can make it.

O'Reilly returned to the line up after holding out and not playing an NHL game for approximately 11 months and put up 8 points in his first 10 games.

Nylander returned to the line up after holding out and not playing an NHL game for approximately 8 months and took 24 games to put up 8 points (2 in his first 10)

The point - There are examples of players returning to the line up after long layoffs and contributing right away........Nylander did not do so.

Things I wasn't saying:
Hyman and Nylander are similar players
Lemieux and Nylander are similar players
O'Reilly outpointed Nylander in his holdout year

 

[Bluelines]

Thank you.

I didn't think anyone would actually conclude that I was attempting to compare Lemieux and Nylander as players. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

You would think that was pretty obvious but then again reading for comprehension is not a prerequisite to post on this forum.

 

[Bluelines]

I think you've lost the original plot.

How is it that guys can be out for 6-8 weeks with an injury that limits their ability to train, and return to the line up and start contributing almost immediately?

Putting aside the skill gap, do you think Hyman will take 4-6 weeks to get back to his form if he misses camp and the first month of the season due to the surgery? What about Dermott?

Can't use Hyman as an example of a returning player............not as skilled
Cant' use Lemieux as an example of a returning player..........far too skilled

O'Reilly? Ok.....but Nylander out pointed him by 7 in his 54 games (O'Reilly played 29) so I should rethink my stance.

Here's the point as clearly as I believe I can make it.

O'Reilly returned to the line up after holding out and not playing an NHL game for approximately 11 months and put up 8 points in his first 10 games.

Nylander returned to the line up after holding out and not playing an NHL game for approximately 8 months and took 24 games to put up 8 points (2 in his first 10)

The point - There are examples of players returning to the line up after long layoffs and contributing right away........Nylander did not do so.

Things I wasn't saying:
Hyman and Nylander are similar players
Lemieux and Nylander are similar players
O'Reilly outpointed Nylander in his holdout year

So you're saying Nylander is = to Gretzky?

 

[egd27]

So you're saying Nylander is = to Gretzky?

Exactly........ 88 is two 8's.....it's almost like two 9's

Finally some one gets it.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'll never understand how everyone is so certain that Nylander and Matthews will play together. We spend 2/3 of last season + the playoffs begging Babcock to play one of our best playmakers with our best shooter. But Babcock stubbornly refused.

We lost this season the moment Dubois decided to keep Babcock.

The fact they played together for Matthews first two seasons, then again when Nylander came back for his third, might have something to do with it....it’s like people forget who put them together in the first place, it wasn’t fate.

 

[ULF_55]

I think you've lost the original plot.

How is it that guys can be out for 6-8 weeks with an injury that limits their ability to train, and return to the line up and start contributing almost immediately?

Nylander was out for 7 months?

If we're just looking at facts 7 months >> 2 months.

I have heard players saying coming off a major injury (knee) that it can take several months before they feel back to normal. So even if they contribute they may not actually be back to 100%.

...

Additionally, at the end of the year Nylander's points were non reflective as to how he played. One article I read said in every other year, with normal luck, he'd have doubled his goals. Kind of like Kadri's year before his 32 goal campaign when his shooting percentage dipped to 6.5.

Anyway, he didn't produce, but that's now in the past.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Also certain thangs shouldn't change at all: Nylander should not be thinking the fans etc in this case neither. So what if some suckas has already bought their fanny jerseys of nylander and paid in full? Nylander wasn't thinking nobody but himself during the contract negotiations neither. He should keep the same code and lane he already walked Only do for you, not for the team and espcially not for the fans. Order again and invest on the maple leafs. Nylander 88 should sell out real hard

Naw dude, this was a legit A+ PR move on Nylander's part, in one swoop he soothes things over with some of the fan base after that tire fire of a performance last year while also giving off the vibe that he truly wants to be in Toronto (who spends their own money re-cresting fans jerseys on a team they don't want to be on...seriously smart move on his part

 

[tmlms13]

Lol priceless.

Ok chief give me another example of a skilled player that started his season in December

Sundin in vancouver. Though that's the same issue

Nylander is so unique, there is no comparison.

 

[Nithoniniel]

What kind of qualities can recover quickly at the NHL level would be an interesting conversation if it wasn't so obvious that it would turn into a ****show within minutes.

I'm going to give this an honest attempt.

The issue with coming back late without any competitive hockey in over half a year as well as no high-level practice isn't as simple as just being a worse player for a while. It hits certain areas of the game harder than others. Your technical skills might be rusty, but they're still there. Similarly with physical ability. What's the one thing pretty much every returning or new player mention about the league? Pace. The pace is so fast compared to anything else that it can be overwhelming. You have less time to make decisions, less time to execute, less time to handle the puck.

Someone like Hyman doesn't depend on that, his game doesn't revolve around making those snap decisions or executing the difficult plays. His game is about physical abilities and the will, smarts, and competitiveness to make the most of them. I think he might struggle to make as many plays into the slot as he normally does after board battles, but the majority of his game will be unaffected. Even if Lemieux was taken aback by the pace, and he was such a unique player that I wouldn't take that for granted, he was such a physical monster that he could buy himself the time he needed. Nylander's whole game on the other hand revolves around his vision, if things are moving too fast with him he doesn't have a natural counterpoint, and you remove the cornerstone of his game.

Finally, and I expect this point to not go over very well, his season can be divided into three parts:
1) First two weeks or so after he returned. He visibly struggled, didn't produce at all, and his underlying metrics were the worst they've ever been for him.
2) After that first period, that changed. From that point onwards, he became himself and everything from micro data to possession was the best they've been. Nothing went in for him personally or his linemates. That happens sometimes, as we Leafs fans should very well know. It happened to Kadri one season, and he followed that up with two 30 goal seasons where he was a top 20 center in production.
3) After the points started to trickle in, things did normalize - even though it was too late to salvage his season statistically - and he produced well at even strength from then onwards. The PP continued to be crap though.

Finally, one can't complain about people being obtrusive and then portray the criticism towards using one of the all-time best as a comparable as "he was just too skilled."

 

[Nithoniniel]

Naw dude, this was a legit A+ PR move on Nylander's part, in one swoop he soothes things over with some of the fan base after that tire fire of a performance last year while also giving off the vibe that he truly wants to be in Toronto (who spends their own money re-cresting fans jerseys on a team they don't want to be on...seriously smart move on his part

Yup. It was definitely a PR move. That doesn't mean that it didn't come from a place of goodwill, but thinking that's the end of it seem a bit naive. In a similar vein, Nylander really needed to show that he wants to be here like you said. It just also happens to be true.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Yup. It was definitely a PR move. That doesn't mean that it didn't come from a place of goodwill, but thinking that's the end of it seem a bit naive. In a similar vein, Nylander really needed to show that he wants to be here like you said. It just also happens to be true.

and here I was expecting you to eviscerate me when I saw my alert lmao

 

[MyBudJT]

I'm going to give this an honest attempt.

The issue with coming back late without any competitive hockey in over half a year as well as no high-level practice isn't as simple as just being a worse player for a while. It hits certain areas of the game harder than others. Your technical skills might be rusty, but they're still there. Similarly with physical ability. What's the one thing pretty much every returning or new player mention about the league? Pace. The pace is so fast compared to anything else that it can be overwhelming. You have less time to make decisions, less time to execute, less time to handle the puck.

Someone like Hyman doesn't depend on that, his game doesn't revolve around making those snap decisions or executing the difficult plays. His game is about physical abilities and the will, smarts, and competitiveness to make the most of them. I think he might struggle to make as many plays into the slot as he normally does after board battles, but the majority of his game will be unaffected. Even if Lemieux was taken aback by the pace, and he was such a unique player that I wouldn't take that for granted, he was such a physical monster that he could buy himself the time he needed. Nylander's whole game on the other hand revolves around his vision, if things are moving too fast with him he doesn't have a natural counterpoint, and you remove the cornerstone of his game.

Finally, and I expect this point to not go over very well, his season can be divided into three parts:
1) First two weeks or so after he returned. He visibly struggled, didn't produce at all, and his underlying metrics were the worst they've ever been for him.
2) After that first period, that changed. From that point onwards, he became himself and everything from micro data to possession was the best they've been. Nothing went in for him personally or his linemates. That happens sometimes, as we Leafs fans should very well know. It happened to Kadri one season, and he followed that up with two 30 goal seasons where he was a top 20 center in production.
3) After the points started to trickle in, things did normalize - even though it was too late to salvage his season statistically - and he actually led the team in 5v5 points from that point. The PP continued to be crap though.

Finally, one can't complain about people being obtrusive and then portray the criticism towards using one of the all-time best as a comparable as "he was just too skilled."

Solid post, but I'm confused about the statement I bolded.

I looked at the Month of April: Nope
I looked at the last 3 weeks of the season: Nope
I looked at the last 4 weeks of the season: Nope
I looked at the Month of March: Nope
I looked at March and April: Nope
I looked at February: Nope
I looked at February and March: Nope
I looked at February to April: Nope


When did Nylander lead our team in 5v5 points?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Solid post, but I'm confused about the statement I bolded.

I looked at the Month of April: Nope
I looked at the last 3 weeks of the season: Nope
I looked at the last 4 weeks of the season: Nope
I looked at the Month of March: Nope
I looked at March and April: Nope
I looked at February: Nope
I looked at February and March: Nope
I looked at February to April: Nope


When did Nylander lead our team in 5v5 points?

Didn't find the tweet so I went to check myself. It was a pretty particular date (the last 13 games), so it was a pretty useless point. Changed the OP to reflect that.

 

[MyBudJT]

Didn't find the tweet so I went to check myself. It was a pretty particular date (the last 13 games), so it was a pretty useless point.

Thanks for clarifying, but its still not correct... it is a lot closer than the other samples I looked at though.

Although I guess 5v5 is different than EVP. Thats where the differences might be.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Thanks for clarifying, but its still not correct... it is a lot closer than the other samples I looked at though.

Although I guess 5v5 is different than EVP. Thats where the differences might be.

View attachment 249983

Yup. Marner and the others had an OT point in that interval. But like I said, pretty useless.

 

[egd27]

Sundin in vancouver. Though that's the same issue

Nylander is so unique, there is no comparison.

Ok, Sundin in Van....10 points in 1st 12 games

 

[Pholus]

I'm going to give this an honest attempt.

The issue with coming back late without any competitive hockey in over half a year as well as no high-level practice isn't as simple as just being a worse player for a while. It hits certain areas of the game harder than others. Your technical skills might be rusty, but they're still there. Similarly with physical ability. What's the one thing pretty much every returning or new player mention about the league? Pace. The pace is so fast compared to anything else that it can be overwhelming. You have less time to make decisions, less time to execute, less time to handle the puck.

Someone like Hyman doesn't depend on that, his game doesn't revolve around making those snap decisions or executing the difficult plays. His game is about physical abilities and the will, smarts, and competitiveness to make the most of them. I think he might struggle to make as many plays into the slot as he normally does after board battles, but the majority of his game will be unaffected. Even if Lemieux was taken aback by the pace, and he was such a unique player that I wouldn't take that for granted, he was such a physical monster that he could buy himself the time he needed. Nylander's whole game on the other hand revolves around his vision, if things are moving too fast with him he doesn't have a natural counterpoint, and you remove the cornerstone of his game.

With regards to pace, I would think it has a larger effect on players whose games revolve around creating time and space for themselves to do something with the puck. It would make sense that when you start playing in the middle of the season and are 'half a step behind' everyone else, all of a sudden you don't have the time and space you're used to having while you shoot/pass, and your effectiveness plummets. Whereas players who are more 'grinders' are already used to not having time and space, so there is less of an adjustment for them in that situation, with the only potential change being to tone down their aggressiveness in order to not wind up getting caught on the wrong side of the puck.