Confirmed with Link: NYI-VAN Beauvillier, 1st (2023 Top 12 Protected), Raty for Bo Horvat

[MarkusNaslund19]

They’re … first in the conference?

And Seguin and Benn's contracts are the one thing keeping them from being potentially dynastic from their once in a life time 2017 haul, and recent great picks in Johnson, Stankoven, etc.

He’s a future 3rd line type if he makes it scoring at about 0.5 points/game in the AHL. He isn’t a blue-chipper.

Scoring at 0.5 points per game as a 20 year old in literally his first like 30 games in North America?

I'm chalking this up to an emotional reaction to losing Bo (and what it says about our failed rebuild of the last 9 years) because you're a far better poster than this.

 

[thecupismine]

What's really sad about all this is thinking back 10 years ago when the deal to get Horvat was made. Someone had the foresight to see that this wasn't going to be a quick fix to get back to the top, and traded a top-notch player in their prime for a premium pick to try and get there.

Unfortunately, 10 years after the fact, no one else has seemed to make a similar deal until now, and even then, this wouldn't have had to be the case if some terrible decisions weren't made in the last two years. With a proper management team, this guy should've been a Canuck for life. Instead, we're stuck with trading top 10 picks for OEL + Garland, and retaining guys like JT Miller, none of whom really embody what it means (or should mean) to be a Canuck.

As for the deal itself, it's kind of what I was afraid would happen. Quantity for quality deal that fans talk themselves into liking because they don't really have much of a choice.

You have a middle six prospect (B tier), a cap dump at a crowded position (both roster and cap-wise), and a 1st round pick. Upside is that pick could end up being top 15 this year or even better next, but it also could be 20+ this year or next too. This being the return for your captain scoring at a PPG, 40+ goal pace is abysmal, with the best part of it being it increases the value of our current 1st round pick.

As for why the Islanders did this, I have no clue - if I was a fan over there I'd probably be livid. This is a rare lose-lose situation for everyone it feels like, including the players. I'd be ecstatic if I'm wrong, but after the past few years, I don't have my hopes particularly high.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Worth noting Bo has cooled off big time after scoring 26 goals in his first 34 games (where he was shooting 25%), he has only scored 5 in his last 15 (shooting 14%)

 

[BelovedIsles]

Just wanted to stop by to give some insight on Beau and Raty.

Beau still has 2nd line potential. Confidence has plagued him for most of his career. He was brought up too quickly, IMHO, and he never developed security in his skills at the NHL level. When he's confident in his game his pace is high, he plays fast, tenacious, hounds the puck, aggressive, decisive (a little like Garland). He has a good wrister that he loves to tuck between glove/pad-blocker/pad. He scored one of the biggest playoff OT goals in recent NYI history. 2021 ECF he stripped a Tampa defender and beat Vasi clean; beautiful play and goal. Conversely, when his confidence is low, he looks like your typical bottom-6 grinder with speed, who will get in on the forecheck... and that's about it. If he can regain his confidence and maintain it, he could be a middle-tier 2nd liner.

As for Raty, I can only base on limited samples in the NHL/AHL. He's got an elite release, he's always in the right position in all three zones; he just seems to know where to be (I think this is his best asset). Hence his high IQ. He's strong on faceoffs, and plays the full 200 ft. His skating is a major weakness though. I actually didn't realize how slow his acceleration and top speed is until I saw him in the NHL. With that said, he compensates with smarts and he does have good lateral mobility, as I've seen him dance around defenders. He's one I didn't want to give up, or would've preferred to give up for a superior player.

 

[bbud]

That would actually be epic but it's not gonna happen

Be funny reality lets hope Raty becomes what they predict and draft is a great pick

 

[tradervik]

PA: “You can look at this like we got three first round picks back”

Ok patrik

The reactions to this quote are hilarious. Allvin was obviously joking. I guess emotions are too raw after the Rick Vaive trade.

Edit: NVM, I rewatched that bit and he wasn’t joking. It’s clearly spin, bad spin.

 

[Ernie]

Do we expect the Islanders to be better or worse next year? Do we want a pick in 13-16 this year in the deep draft, or do we hope the Islanders plummet in the standings next year for a top 10 pick? If Horvat doesn't sign with the Islanders, how f***ed are they?

Have a look at their roster.

They have only 3 forwards under the age of 30. The youngest is Barzal at 25. They have $32m tied up in forwards over 30 next season.

Solid bet for them to get worse.

 

[Bubbles]

Good on Lou to tell Vancouver to shut the hell up. Canucks organization has more leaks than the Titanic.

 

[sting101]

Just wanted to stop by to give some insight on Beau and Raty.

Beau still has 2nd line potential. Confidence has plagued him for most of his career. He was brought up too quickly, IMHO, and he never developed security in his skills at the NHL level. When he's confident in his game his pace is high, he plays fast, tenacious, hounds the puck, aggressive, decisive (a little like Garland). He has a good wrister that he loves to tuck between glove/pad-blocker/pad. He scored one of the biggest playoff OT goals in recent NYI history. 2021 ECF he stripped a Tampa defender and beat Vasi clean; beautiful play and goal. Conversely, when his confidence is low, he looks like your typical bottom-6 grinder with speed, who will get in on the forecheck... and that's about it. If he can regain his confidence and maintain it, he could be a middle-tier 2nd liner.

As for Raty, I can only base on limited samples in the NHL/AHL. He's got an elite release, he's always in the right position in all three zones; he just seems to know where to be (I think this is his best asset). Hence his high IQ. He's strong on faceoffs, and plays the full 200 ft. His skating is a major weakness though. I actually didn't realize how slow his acceleration and top speed is until I saw him in the NHL. With that said, he compensates with smarts and he does have good lateral mobility, as I've seen him dance around defenders. He's one I didn't want to give up, or would've preferred to give up for a superior player.

thanks for the insight.

Am a little suprised to hear that about Raty's skating to be honest when i last watched him he looked fast with a long powerful stride. That was at lower levels which goes to show just how fast the NHL has become i guess. At 20 he can make some big leaps forward with work. Horvat was a slow skater at the same age.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You could honestly make an argument that taking back Beauvillier plus retaining on Horvat essentially cancels out Raty in terms of value so all we’re getting is a pick.

Not in good faith you couldn't.

Beauvillier is signed for one more year, and Horvat's retention is 30 games. You think that's worth Aatu Raty?

You've seriously seriously changed a lot.

 

[Grub]

Haven't posted in a while, just here to type my opinion. I don't like this trade, we should have traded him last year for a bigger package. Again we trade for another smallish winger and still no help to our D. I'm excited to get another Lekkerimaki when we draft at 15...

​

With that said, at least we won't have Bo Horvat anymore to ruin the Tank. Dying hard for Bedard is a must.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Rutherford: “our defense needs major surgery”

So you’re gonna target some RD prospects with upside?
Ohh or maybe numerous picks back in the return?

Rutherford: “I got us two forwards”

You can't be this myopic, right?

Why on earth would you think that targetting D HAS to be done in this trade? Why would you hamstring a potential return by being insistent on positioning?

It would be like not taking McDavid because you needed a D. Enter Noah Hanifin (yes this is exaggeration, but the reasoning is the same).

 

[RutherPlan]

The more I watch Beauviller, the more I see a faster Alex Burrows. I feel like he's going to be a fan favorite.

 

[Kryten]

You can't be this myopic, right?

Why on earth would you think that targetting D HAS to be done in this trade? Why would you hamstring a potential return by being insistent on positioning?

It would be like not taking McDavid because you needed a D. Enter Noah Hanifin (yes this is exaggeration, but the reasoning is the same).

While I agree with you there is another view that has merits. IF a blue chip D is available these are the trades that need to bring them in. By relying on picks from these trades to get blue chip D youre looking at 2 years at least usually until they are NHL ready.

 

[Grub]

You can't be this myopic, right?

Why on earth would you think that targetting D HAS to be done in this trade? Why would you hamstring a potential return by being insistent on positioning?

It would be like not taking McDavid because you needed a D. Enter Noah Hanifin (yes this is exaggeration, but the reasoning is the same).

But honestly he has the right to moan and complain. We haven't traded for a proper D since Tanev walked for nothing. The problem with this team has been defense, it's just dissapointing when you trade your tradable asset just for another forward that will not fix this team.

 

[BelovedIsles]

thanks for the insight.

Am a little suprised to hear that about Raty's skating to be honest when i last watched him he looked fast with a long powerful stride. That was at lower levels which goes to show just how fast the NHL has become i guess. At 20 he can make some big leaps forward with work. Horvat was a slow skater at the same age.

Absolutely. If he can add a few gears he'll be a reliable, two-way 2C.

 

[Horvat1C]

Just realized I'll have to change my name

 

[isles55]

Beauvillier plays with a ton of energy, and will get chances to score if he plays with talented players. He's not strong on his skates, and finishing have been the major concerns with him the last two seasons. But Beauvillier is absolutely clutch. If you need a goal, all of a sudden his finishing issues go away. He was huge in both playoff runs.

At worst, he's a frustrating 3rd-liner, but he could be a good top-6 forward. You bought low on a useful player.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

While I agree with you there is another view that has merits. IF a blue chip D is available these are the trades that need to bring them in. By relying on picks from these trades to get blue chip D youre looking at 2 years at least usually until they are NHL ready.

Thing is, WE have been short of good D for about 49 of our 53 years, but currently the league itself is woefully short on good D. In fact there are legit contenders who probably don't trust their 4th Dman. They're absolutely gold right now and won't be moved at the trade deadline. Insisting on the closest facsimile to a good D would have left us with a trade centered around a Logan Stanley quality player.

 

[Jyrki21]

Just wanted to stop by to give some insight on Beau and Raty.

Beau still has 2nd line potential. Confidence has plagued him for most of his career. He was brought up too quickly, IMHO, and he never developed security in his skills at the NHL level. When he's confident in his game his pace is high, he plays fast, tenacious, hounds the puck, aggressive, decisive (a little like Garland). He has a good wrister that he loves to tuck between glove/pad-blocker/pad. He scored one of the biggest playoff OT goals in recent NYI history. 2021 ECF he stripped a Tampa defender and beat Vasi clean; beautiful play and goal. Conversely, when his confidence is low, he looks like your typical bottom-6 grinder with speed, who will get in on the forecheck... and that's about it. If he can regain his confidence and maintain it, he could be a middle-tier 2nd liner.

As for Raty, I can only base on limited samples in the NHL/AHL. He's got an elite release, he's always in the right position in all three zones; he just seems to know where to be (I think this is his best asset). Hence his high IQ. He's strong on faceoffs, and plays the full 200 ft. His skating is a major weakness though. I actually didn't realize how slow his acceleration and top speed is until I saw him in the NHL. With that said, he compensates with smarts and he does have good lateral mobility, as I've seen him dance around defenders. He's one I didn't want to give up, or would've preferred to give up for a superior player.

Do you think Lamoriello has a scheme to house-flip Bo closer to the deadline if he doesn't re-sign? It could be quite genius.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Do you think Lamoriello has a scheme to house-flip Bo closer to the deadline if he doesn't re-sign? It could be quite genius.

Lou usually doesn't make these deals without having confidence the player he acquires will sign. With that said, if NYI drop in the standings, and he's unwilling to, why not; recoup some assets.

 

[Peen]

Not in good faith you couldn't.

Beauvillier is signed for one more year, and Horvat's retention is 30 games. You think that's worth Aatu Raty?

You've seriously seriously changed a lot.

Using picks as a currency, what pick do you think Raty would fetch in the 2023 draft if he were deal tomorrow?

Canucks gave up a second and took back Stillman to move Dick @ 2.7.

Given that is around the market rate for that much cap savings, I do think we should have gotten a pick back for taking that contract and retaining on Bo.

And then it comes down to what you would surmise that pick should be and what Raty’s value is.

It does not feel like we were compensated for making the money work.

 

[Ninjadude]

The return is kind of...underwhelming when you think about it. Im not too familiar with either player coming back, but the first round pick is good.

BUT, at least the Nucks started on the major retool, AND should help us lose more games.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Using picks as a currency, what pick do you think Raty would fetch in the 2023 draft if he were deal tomorrow?

Canucks gave up a second and took back Stillman to move Dick @ 2.7.

Given that is around the market rate for that much cap savings, I do think we should have gotten a pick back for taking that contract and retaining on Bo.

And then it comes down to what you would surmise that pick should be and what Raty’s value is.

It does not feel like we were compensated for making the money work.

I think they leapt on an option that was time sensitive.

Any trade was going to involve money in. I would still accept this deal if we had taken Bailey instead of Beauvillier (but been less happy with it) because that would be a true dump.

If we wait another month and the Islanders are ten points out, they're not making this deal.

So now you're backing into a Lysell and the 30th pick overall return while probably still taking Craig Smith to make it work.

Whether explicit in the trade or not, the fact that we are getting probably 13th to 20th overall in a great draft where I almost guarantee you won't see another pick in that range move, or else an unprotected 2024 first from a team who is currently outside of the playoffs is absolutely a return for 25% retention for 30 games.

 

[VanJack]

Seems to me this move ranks as something of a desperation move by the Islanders. Apparently they haven't even had any discussions with Horvat's camp about a contract extension. So at this point, he's a pure rental to try and get them into the playoffs.

And I can't see any reason why the Horvat camp would sign an extension before he hits full UFA status on July 1st. At that point the bidding war could reach 6-8 teams. So unless the Isles throw stupid money at him, he could be a guy who helps them for only a couple of months.

Seems like a lot to give up.....an everyday forward like Beauvillier, one of their top prospects in Raty along with a potential first rounder in a very deep draft, for just one more shot at a playoff spot.