Confirmed Trade: [NSH/NJD] P.K. Subban traded to Devils for Santini, Davies, 2019 2nd and 2020 2nd Part II

[goonybird]

Leafs+Habs fans: fighting to the death

Preds+Devs fans:

 

[Revelation]

What happened to Santini? Devils fans had a hard on for him for what seems like forever

Hickey AMac/Dahlstrom
Djoos Santini

Would be a passable if low end bottom 4 on many teams

 

[goonybird]

What happened to Santini? Devils fans had a hard on for him for what seems like forever

Hickey Djoos
AMac Santini

Would be a passable if low end bottom 4 on many teams

really good at separating players from the puck, but doesn't know what to do with it should he get a hold of it.

 

[Revelation]

really good at separating players from the puck, but doesn't know what to do with it should he get a hold of it.

So put him with a small puck heady guy like Hickey or Djoos and you've got yourself a pairing

Was he with Butcher in NJ?

 

[Cogburn]

Subban was a cap dump from Nashville. A skilled one, to be sure, but the Predators valued the cap space and potential in free agency more than they did a 9 million dollar 3rd defenseman.

Duchene wasn't a part of the trade, but was a direct result on this move.

Moving Turris or Smith or whoever obviously didn't work. It takes two teams to trade.

New Jersey made the best offer with 0 retention, I've seen a number of sources all summer saying that. They may have won the trade, but Nashville had a different set of standards to play up against, and achieved their goals. You can't win a race by claiming you got better fuel economy, or your cars colour is better, or or that you paid less or more for it.

 

[Dialamo]

Subban was a cap dump from Nashville. A skilled one, to be sure, but the Predators valued the cap space and potential in free agency more than they did a 9 million dollar 3rd defenseman.

Duchene wasn't a part of the trade, but was a direct result on this move.

Moving Turris or Smith or whoever obviously didn't work. It takes two teams to trade.

New Jersey made the best offer with 0 retention, I've seen a number of sources all summer saying that. They may have won the trade, but Nashville had a different set of standards to play up against, and achieved their goals. You can't win a race by claiming you got better fuel economy, or your cars colour is better, or or that you paid less or more for it.

Both teams got what they needed, it's a win-win.

 

[CMDEADLY]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the swap of a great but more offensive minded defensemen for a great but offensively minded forward is a positive.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the swap of a great but more offensive minded defensemen for a great but offensively minded forward is a positive.

There's no question in my mind I'd rather have P.K. Subban on my team over Matt Duchene.

 

[Soundgarden]

There's no question in my mind I'd rather have P.K. Subban on my team over Matt Duchene.

This year, or in 2013? Even then Duchene was PPG anyway.

Subban just had the worst season of his career. Duchene put up a 30 goal, 70 point season.

 

[typicalsavage]

There's no question in my mind I'd rather have P.K. Subban on my team over Matt Duchene.

Lol id rather have Nazem Kadri than Subban you must be stuck in 2013. Subban's skating has declined and was never all that great defensively to begin with.

 

[FerrisRox]

This year, or in 2013? Even then Duchene was PPG anyway.

Subban just had the worst season of his career. Duchene put up a 30 goal, 70 point season.

I'm almost certain that Nashville will only benefit from what Duchene does this year, so his point totals from last season are irrelevant.

I'd much rather P.K. Subban instead of Duchene.

 

[Revelation]

I'm almost certain that Nashville will only benefit from what Duchene does this year, so his point totals from last season are irrelevant.

I'd much rather P.K. Subban instead of Duchene.

Y tho

 

[Hisch13r]

No, Subban wasn't a top line defender last year period.

He was to start the year then got injured and took a step back

 

[HockeyF3ind]

He was to start the year then got injured and took a step back

Subban's zone exits are elite, his break-out passes are elite. He can level a player with a hit. He's a phenomenal player, but at 30 of course he has lost a step. While Nashville clearly lost this trade, they could afford the luxury of losing this great defenseman with the d-core they already had and the need to add a top line C.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

There's no question in my mind I'd rather have P.K. Subban on my team over Matt Duchene.

I'd rather have the PK Subban of 2017-18 over Duchene. In general. But... caveats galore given the specifics!

Duchene is a "good player"... strong puck possession and zone entry forward, but not of course a major star or a player who is ever going to win a major award or anything. PK Subban has won a Norris and was a finalist again in 2017-18. I agree it is obvious that the peak PK was a better player than Duchene ever will be.

But. Nashville had a loaded top-4 D group. So in a relative sense, PK is a little less valuable to the Preds than he might be to other teams. I don't agree with them doing it, but the Preds would often play Ryan Ellis more than Subban in some games. Subban was looked at as "part of the Big Four"... but not really as the top dog or anything. Even in his 2 good seasons. And then last season he had a big dropoff. Nashville needed more scoring up front. Nashville has to negotiate new contracts with Josi and eventually Ekholm, and they see those players as at least equal to Subban.

So you'd rather have Subban. And some NHL teams would too. And some wouldn't. On certain FHL teams, I'd rather have Subban. On others I wouldn't. In the specific circumstances for Nashville... I'd rather have Duchene, Davies, Afanaseyev, Campbell, a 2020 2nd, and keep Josi's AAV for 8 years under $9M. Subban can be a better player than Duchene, in isolation, and it still doesn't make it better for Nashville to keep him over what they acquired instead.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Subban is on another level in comparison to the other Devils defenseman. He looks like an elite 2-way top pairing defenseman on top of his game earning his salary. I am expecting him to have a great season anchoring the Devils blueline.

Davies is a really nice prospect but very unlikely he or the draft picks turn into a player as elite as Subban is.

Duchene was not part of the trade with NJ so this trade looks like a loss for Nashville but they won the Duchene sweepstakes. Poile took a calculated risk and it worked out.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Lol id rather have Nazem Kadri than Subban you must be stuck in 2013. Subban's skating has declined and was never all that great defensively to begin with.

Subban's defense has been consistently underrated by those who don't watch him play every game. He was often our best defensive defender. Only Ekholm could challenge him for the title of "Best" on our team in that area. He was certainly our best pick to match against other team's top lines, and he always stepped up in the playoffs. People erroneously conflate his occasional "highlight reel" giveaways with being bad defensively overall. He does make some bad plays that get onto the morning highlights once in a while. But at the same time, he was our best player inside our own zone, most combative, best at taking the body in the corners and in front of the net.

Well, he was all that in Year 1 and 2 in Nashville, anyway. But last year he was obviously slowed. Injury? Conditioning issues? We don't know. Subban in Year 3 was a very different player. 30 isn't old, and shouldn't be an age at which he declines just on age alone. But for whatever reason, his play did decline, significantly, and I do not doubt that was a big factor in the trade too. Subban was a $9M player for us in Year 1 and Year 2. He was more like a $5M player for us in Year 3. I sincerely hope he rebounds for New Jersey. But his play last season for the Preds... and their projection that he might never return to his former level... was undoubtedly another significant factor in the trade from the Nashville POV.

 

[skyo]

Subban's defense has been consistently underrated by those who don't watch him play every game. He was often our best defensive defender. Only Ekholm could challenge him for the title of "Best" on our team in that area.

He was certainly our best pick to match against other team's top lines, and he always stepped up in the playoffs.

Subban definitely had a presence out there, you knew he is a top tier dman and is always dangerous when on the attack.

And he's been in the playoffs what 8 out of 10 years? dude's a workhorse.

I think losing him will be more detrimental to the Preds more than you think after awhile.

It's just crazy to me Poile has had Shea Weber, Seth Jones and PK Subban to now Santini lol, I keep saying it but if he was in charge of a Canadian team, the fans and media would be all over him, relentless. I mean Benning trades Forsling (who just cleared waivers) for Clendening and the world is ending.

 

[Gh24]

There probably were better deals in terms for value gotten back but they would've required taking on money, which would've meant no Duchene which would've defeated the purpose of trading Subban in the first place.

Wasn't it NJ was the only team that were able to absorb his full salary/cap and not give much any cap back, whereas other teams wanted the Preds to retain or take high cap players back.

My comment however was (poorly) aimed at those claiming Poile could have traded this or that player instead. There are so many variables when it comes to trading players including financial restrictions, player relations, longevity of the team/organisation and more so these "better options" didn't appeal to Poile for whatever reason or simply weren't there.

 

[PredsV82]

Subban definitely had a presence out there, you knew he is a top tier dman and is always dangerous when on the attack.

And he's been in the playoffs what 8 out of 10 years? dude's a workhorse.

I think losing him will be more detrimental to the Preds more than you think after awhile.

It's just crazy to me Poile has had Shea Weber, Seth Jones and PK Subban to now Santini lol, I keep saying it but if he was in charge of a Canadian team, the fans and media would be all over him, relentless. I mean Benning trades Forsling (who just cleared waivers) for Clendening and the world is ending.

You mean the Canadian fans and the media would be mad about the fact that those trades resulted in the Preds making the SC finals one year and winning the Presidents Trophy in another year, while no Canadian team has done either of those in the same time frame??

Interesting...

 

[bobholly39]

Both teams got what they needed, it's a win-win.

I dont think its a win-win. I think Nashville will seriously miss PK come playoff time. Maybe others step up and compensate but he was their best skater for their final run 3 years ago, and last year after a really bad and injury full season - he still ended up as their best skater in the playoffs.

I think letting PK go to add Duchene isnt a move they should have made.

 

[triggrman]

I dont think its a win-win. I think Nashville will seriously miss PK come playoff time. Maybe others step up and compensate but he was their best skater for their final run 3 years ago, and last year after a really bad and injury full season - he still ended up as their best skater in the playoffs.

I think letting PK go to add Duchene isnt a move they should have made.

Nope

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I dont think its a win-win. I think Nashville will seriously miss PK come playoff time. Maybe others step up and compensate but he was their best skater for their final run 3 years ago, and last year after a really bad and injury full season - he still ended up as their best skater in the playoffs.

I think letting PK go to add Duchene isnt a move they should have made.

I certainly would have exhausted all the other options to clear cap space first, and I don't think the Preds did that. But I think this is a trade that will continue to be discussed for a long time... particularly:

1) Depending on how well Subban rebounds in NJ - the "typical" Subban (and the one who finished the last month of the season for the Preds) is a much much different player than the one who struggled through most of the rest of the 2018-19 season for us. I hope he's back to his usual level, because he's a fun player to watch. But if he's not, that will definitely factor into the hindsighting of the trade.

2) Depending on how the Preds D holds up. Management is putting a lot of faith in a rookie Fabbro, and we are also now a lot more susceptible to being hurt by an injury to one of the remaining top guys (Josi/Ekholm/Ellis). If one of the other top D misses significant time, or Fabbro isn't able to step up right away in the top-4 rotation, then that will definitely affect just how much the Preds miss Subban. Conversely, if the top 3 stay healthy and Fabbro steps up, then I guess Poile's gamble pays off.

3) Because it's PK Subban. Every discussion about him endures. Heck, we're still dissecting the Weber/Subban trade.

 

[Armourboy]

When you look at Poile's comments the move makes perfect sense, and at least in his mind the one that had to be made. He said he thought the team needed more scoring, so with that in mind moving a Smith, Bonino, Turris or probably even Ellis doesn't really do that, assuming you could move them to begin with.

There are other reasons I think the move was made as well, but those are purely conjecture on my part so I'll leave those for our own boards.

 

[Soundgarden]

I dont think its a win-win. I think Nashville will seriously miss PK come playoff time. Maybe others step up and compensate but he was their best skater for their final run 3 years ago, and last year after a really bad and injury full season - he still ended up as their best skater in the playoffs.

I think letting PK go to add Duchene isnt a move they should have made.

And if Duchene becomes the first player for us to hit 70 points since '08 would you feel the same way?

Look, we hope that Subban rebounds and is great for NJ, but he is not what we need and what he does in New Jersey makes no difference for us. We already have two defensemen voted in the top ten for Norris, we don't need a $9m defenseman on the 2nd pairing when we haven't had anyone score 65 points in a decade.