HoseEmDown
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2012
- 17,470
- 3,690
I'm with you. I think there's still a big gap between Bishop and Vasy.
Yeah about a 5 million dollar one.
I'm with you. I think there's still a big gap between Bishop and Vasy.
Yeah about a 5 million dollar one.
Yup. We can go cheap and get cheap results.
And you know this how? When has Vasilevskiy been given more than a few starts in a row besides to the Stanley Cup Champs who nearly doubled our shots every game? He kept us in that series why can't he keep us a playoff team?
Yup. We can go cheap and get cheap results.
He isn't the best puckhandler but that is a massive exaggeration.Vasy is a big part of the reason we get doubled in shots when he's in the net.
Add: Did a quick count here http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/schedule/_/name/tb/tampa-bay-lightning so it could be wrong, but by my count, we faced 35+ shots six times when Vasy started in the regular season. Just four times when Bishop started, despite the fact that he started almost 3x as many games. (There's also one game where Bish started and Vasy finished that we gave up 35+)
Vasy's rebound control and general game management is an issue. He's not ready to be our starter.
Run the numbers and show me the team you expect to put in front of Bishop without the cap going up by 2017. Nobody wants to lose Bish but those of us who have actually taken the time to estimate what it will cost to resign everybody are in agreement that our team going forward looks better without Bishop than with him. If you're going to take a contrary position then the least you can do is base it on more than just wishful thinking.
For a starting point let's use these contract estimates; if there are any you'd care to debate then we can do that, and once a general consensus has been reached you can assemble your team with Bishop:
Estimated free agent contracts:
Bishop - $7M
Vasilevskiy - $2M
Hedman - $8M
Kucherov - $7.5M
Johnson, Palat, Drouin - $6M each
Killorn - $4.5M
Namestnikov - $2M
Brown - $1.5M
Sustr - $2M
Boyle - $2M
Koekkoek - $1M
for everybody else just say what you think we'll pay them
Under contract through 2017:
Callahan - $5.8M
Carle - $5.5M
Filppula - $5M
Garrison - $4.6M
Stralman - $4.5M
Coburn - $3.7M
Condra - $1.25M
Estimated cap assuming the escalator clause is used this summer and no increase occurs by 2017: $72.8M
There, all the hard work has been done. Now all you have to do is show us the roster you put together around Bishop.
He isn't the best puckhandler but that is a massive exaggeration.
We have a team built to win in front of Bishop, what we need is a team capable to keep winning without him. We're too highly dependent of one player, and when this very player goes down, we're ending up getting screwed. I think we're all okay if Yzerman can re-sign Bishop wihtout losing the only few skaters having an offensive impact on this team, Bishop will probably make $7M (and he's worth it) though, and with the cap not going up it's likely one of the Palat,, TJ, Kuch, Killer, Drouin, Stralman or Hedman will soon be gone, making our main weakness even worse, so ending up even more relying on Bishop.
To avoid the elite goalie addiction, you need depth, particularly forward depth. Adding depth is supposed to be the last piece of building a cup winning team. All the hard work in Tampa has been done by Yzerman already, top pair defense, top 6 forward, they'd be good enough if only they had a decent supporting cast.
We'll add depth only by saving cap-space though. Vasilevskiy is not elite, not yet, but he's already above average and could break out sooner than some expect. Not next year probably, but he'll keep trending upwards every year. We're/will be in cap hell no matter how you spin it, trading Bishop or another core player, hard decisions will be made. I personally see the writing on the wall though, if we keep Bishop, despite being our MVP, we'll end up in a few years something like the New York Rangers. In fact, we just pulled a Rangers type of playoffs campaign already.
We have a team built to win in front of Bishop, what we need is a team capable to keep winning without him. We're too highly dependent of one player, and when this very player goes down, we're ending up getting screwed. I think we're all okay if Yzerman can re-sign Bishop wihtout losing the only few skaters having an offensive impact on this team, Bishop will probably make $7M (and he's worth it) though, and with the cap not going up it's likely one of the Palat,, TJ, Kuch, Killer, Drouin, Stralman or Hedman will soon be gone, making our main weakness even worse, so ending up even more relying on Bishop.
To avoid the elite goalie addiction, you need depth, particularly forward depth. Adding depth is supposed to be the last piece of building a cup winning team. All the hard work in Tampa has been done by Yzerman already, top pair defense, top 6 forward, they'd be good enough if only they had a decent supporting cast.
We'll add depth only by saving cap-space though. Vasilevskiy is not elite, not yet, but he's already above average and could break out sooner than some expect. Not next year probably, but he'll keep trending upwards every year. We're/will be in cap hell no matter how you spin it, trading Bishop or another core player, hard decisions will be made. I personally see the writing on the wall though, if we keep Bishop, despite being our MVP, we'll end up in a few years something like the New York Rangers. In fact, we just pulled a Rangers type of playoffs campaign already.
And if we lose Bishop, we take a big step backward. It won't be a given that we'll make the playoffs. I don't think we'd have made it this year with Vasy in net.
When Vasy learns to manage games, he'll be a great 1A. But that could still be a while off. We play on our heels when he's in net, and a big reason is because he's giving up so many second and third opportunities, whereas Bishop just kills the play or moves the puck himself.
I'm with you. I think there's still a big gap between Bishop and Vasy.
As I've said, if it eventually costs us Palat, then I think that's a pill we have to swallow.
In order...what are the worst contracts and how many must be moved to re-sign Stamkos this year and the other RFAs next?
I don't think the gap is all that big. Bishop is undeniably better right now, but it's not as if Vasi is a fringe NHLer.
Bishop has had pretty significant injuries in or before each of our playoff series since joining the team, no? Is this not concerning?
As we have seen in these playoff teams can win without a top goalie. Bishop who I really like is going to go. We need to get stronger out front if we are to win the cup. Bish is too expensive and we would be wise to deal him before he goes UFA.
Then we should start a who do we now trade thread if that's the case.
Bishop has had pretty significant injuries in or before each of our playoff series since joining the team, no? Is this not concerning?
Three years in a row and in two of those years it killed our chances in the playoffs. I'd say that's very concerning.
Team can't win a single series without a healthy Ben Bishop, equally concerning.