Speculation: Now what do we do?

[nhljohnson]

you miss the announcement on las vegas today? 500 million is on way to nhl. The cap is going right up after this year.

Pure cash grab for the owners. None of that money would count towards (HRR) Hockey Related Revenue, which is where the players draw their cut from, and therefore would have no impact on where the cap ceiling is set.

 

[nhljohnson]

[/B]
that means it all goes to owners pockets. i saw this too but what players union will do is another story. Thats a lot of money to close eyes about.

The NHLPA will, of course, support the creation of more jobs for its membership to fill.

 

[Todd1a]

The NHLPA will, of course, support the creation of more jobs for its membership to fill.

Yep it creates 23 more roster spots in the nhl 23 new one way contract jobs

 

[TampaJay]

Trade Vasi to Calgary for Sam Bennett. Both have one year left on entry contract for the same .925. Now you have your potential 2C on the cheap.

This avoids the Doomsday scenario…
Bishop has a NMC clause so he can’t be traded and will never waive it. The NMC means he has to be the one to be protected so Vasi will get grabbed in the expansion draft. Then Bishop will be in the driver’s seat and ask for 9 mil and SY will have to let him go to UFA. Then doom… no goalie at all. The greatest strength evaporates to nothing.

Calgary may need more like an NHLer like Paquette, Brown, Condra, Nesterov and or maybe a pick or prospect.

Replace the Stamkos goal losses with Drouin (20) Bennett (20) and Gusev (20).

 

[DFC]

Trade Vasi to Calgary for Sam Bennett. Both have one year left on entry contract for the same .925. Now you have your potential 2C on the cheap.

This avoids the Doomsday scenario…
Bishop has a NMC clause so he can’t be traded and will never waive it. The NMC means he has to be the one to be protected so Vasi will get grabbed in the expansion draft. Then Bishop will be in the driver’s seat and ask for 9 mil and SY will have to let him go to UFA. Then doom… no goalie at all. The greatest strength evaporates to nothing.

Calgary may need more like an NHLer like Paquette, Brown, Condra, Nesterov and or maybe a pick or prospect.

Replace the Stamkos goal losses with Drouin (20) Bennett (20) and Gusev (20).

Bennett might not be a bad target, and it's a trade we could make work. The only thing is, I'm not sure he'd be ready for a 2C role immediately, and we need an immediate #2.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Trade Vasi to Calgary for Sam Bennett. Both have one year left on entry contract for the same .925. Now you have your potential 2C on the cheap.

This avoids the Doomsday scenario…
Bishop has a NMC clause so he can’t be traded and will never waive it. The NMC means he has to be the one to be protected so Vasi will get grabbed in the expansion draft. Then Bishop will be in the driver’s seat and ask for 9 mil and SY will have to let him go to UFA. Then doom… no goalie at all. The greatest strength evaporates to nothing.

Calgary may need more like an NHLer like Paquette, Brown, Condra, Nesterov and or maybe a pick or prospect.

Replace the Stamkos goal losses with Drouin (20) Bennett (20) and Gusev (20).

Bennett will need to be protected in expansion so we'll have another high end forward exposed.

Bishop will not need to be protected as he's not under contract in the 17-18 season so his NMC isn't considered valid.

So deal doesn't work for us.

 

[tjs*]

Trade Vasi to Calgary for Sam Bennett. Both have one year left on entry contract for the same .925. Now you have your potential 2C on the cheap.

This avoids the Doomsday scenario…
Bishop has a NMC clause so he can’t be traded and will never waive it. The NMC means he has to be the one to be protected so Vasi will get grabbed in the expansion draft. Then Bishop will be in the driver’s seat and ask for 9 mil and SY will have to let him go to UFA. Then doom… no goalie at all. The greatest strength evaporates to nothing.

Calgary may need more like an NHLer like Paquette, Brown, Condra, Nesterov and or maybe a pick or prospect.

Replace the Stamkos goal losses with Drouin (20) Bennett (20) and Gusev (20).

Try again. Bishop does not needed to be protected.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

Trade Vasi to Calgary for Sam Bennett. Both have one year left on entry contract for the same .925. Now you have your potential 2C on the cheap.

So at least I'm not totally out to left field in this thinking.

 

[These Are The Days]

Trading for Bennett would be a genius move but I wouldn't do it at the expense of Vasilevskiy. Problem is that Bishop will be 30 soon and isn't going to be competing for at this current level much longer if he is like everyone else. Whereas with Vasilevskiy we can count on him to play at his level for another 10 years and get better in the process. I would ONLY consider doing this post July 1st and after Stamkos has already signed a deal with someone else.

The biggest fish that "seem to be" available are RNH, Bennett and the Avalanche are allegedly dangling Duchene like a worm on a hook for defensive help. The only one I know I don't really want is RNH. Often injured, doesn't win faceoffs well, doesn't score a lot of goals... forget it. I thought this would be his year to really shine and unfortunately he just got hurt again. Forget it.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Would love to have Bennett, I don't think Vasi is enough though. What would we have to add?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I wouldn't add a damn thing.

 

[These Are The Days]

Would love to have Bennett, I don't think Vasi is enough though. What would we have to add?

Probably whatever Stanley Cup we were destined to win with him. That's not to sound cocky either. I mean... that is the goal around here right? We can say that with 2 consecutive ECF's and a SCF loss. 10+ years of Vasilevskiy is just way too much to give up for an immediate need at center. It's a shortsighted investment.

If Vasilevskiy's highest potential was the number 10 then the kid is at a solid 7 right now with a few nights he plays like a 10. I see his maximum potential to be top 5 in the league somewhere around the Pekka Rinne level but probably not quite Price/Lundqvist.

If we move Vasilevskiy it better be a for a damn good reason.

 

[DFC]

Probably whatever Stanley Cup we were destined to win with him. That's not to sound cocky either. I mean... that is the goal around here right? We can say that with 2 consecutive ECF's and a SCF loss. 10+ years of Vasilevskiy is just way too much to give up for an immediate need at center. It's a shortsighted investment.

If Vasilevskiy's highest potential was the number 10 then the kid is at a solid 7 right now with a few nights he plays like a 10. I see his maximum potential to be top 5 in the league somewhere around the Pekka Rinne level but probably not quite Price/Lundqvist.

If we move Vasilevskiy it better be a for a damn good reason.

Bishop is still better. That's a pretty good reason.

If we can hang onto both, I'm all for it. But if we have to move one, I'd rather not move Bishop and then wait 4-6 years for Vasy to hit his prime, losing games in the meantime.

 

[Kramerica Industries]

I wouldn't add a damn thing.

Neither would I, and Calgary, with their horrific goaltending situation, is in no position to want a kick-in for a straight up needs-based blue chip/blue chip trade.

 

[Todd1a]

I wouldn't add a damn thing.

What do you think Stamkos gets paid and where does he sign ?

 

[tjs*]

Bishop is still better. That's a pretty good reason.

If we can hang onto both, I'm all for it. But if we have to move one, I'd rather not move Bishop and then wait 4-6 years for Vasy to hit his prime, losing games in the meantime.

This was my position right up until Bishop got injured yet again, followed by the announcement that the cap won't be going up. With a cap increase of ~$3M per this offseason and next we probably could have kept our entire core together; now if we keep Bishop we're probably looking at losing a couple of our key forwards. Considering the problems we've with scoring depth already this would effectively turn us into the Rangers: great goalie with nobody in front of him. Not to mention Bish's injury issues and the massive threat that poses going forward. If he declines then not only will we have no offense, we'll have no goalie either, and no cap space to rectify either situation.

Moving forward with Vasy is a risk, but it's a risk that at least gives us the flexibility to fix things if they go south on us. With such a tight cap we simply can't afford to have players like Stamkos and Bishop on massive longterm contracts. Hedman and Kucherov, sure, but not two players with injury issues, one of whom would be highly unlikely to live up to his contract even if he can stay healthy. Plus moving guys like Bishop (and if we want to get a jump start on the youth movement, Garrison) would also allow us to replenish the coffers in Syracuse with some high draft picks and/or quality prospects (or we could keep those guys for one last run at the Cup, which might be the more popular option even if we'd benefit more in the long run by moving them.)

Basically the cap situation changes things completely. Before our window could have remained open uninterrupted; now we either go younger and cheaper to retain as much of our core as possible and have a longer window open down the road, or we hold onto everybody as long as we can and watch the team break apart over the next few years.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Bishop is still better. That's a pretty good reason.

If we can hang onto both, I'm all for it. But if we have to move one, I'd rather not move Bishop and then wait 4-6 years for Vasy to hit his prime, losing games in the meantime.

Bishop is better but costs more. Stamkos is better than Johnson but costs more. Vasilevskiy at 2-3mil is better than Bishop at 6-7. Johnson at 6mil is better than Stamkos at 9. In a cap world these are things you have to consider.

 

[DFC]

Bishop is better but costs more. Stamkos is better than Johnson but costs more. Vasilevskiy at 2-3mil is better than Bishop at 6-7. Johnson at 6mil is better than Stamkos at 9. In a cap world these are things you have to consider.

Johnson has performed better when it matters most.

When we're talking about key positions, I think you go with the go you can count on. To me, Vasy doesn't look ready to lead us to a cup yet. Bishop does. His durability is definitely a concern, but I'd rather have the guy who can get us there IF he's healthy than the guy who's likely to take 4 years to be good enough to get us there, if ever.

 

[Hoek]

Vasi isn't taking that long. He almost took us there this year. Closer to two years away at most than 4-6.

 

[tjs*]

Johnson has performed better when it matters most.

When we're talking about key positions, I think you go with the go you can count on. To me, Vasy doesn't look ready to lead us to a cup yet. Bishop does. His durability is definitely a concern, but I'd rather have the guy who can get us there IF he's healthy than the guy who's likely to take 4 years to be good enough to get us there, if ever.

But it's not Bishop vs. Vasy, it's Bishop vs. Vasy and Palat/Killorn/a quality 2C. Vasy with a team in front of him is better than Bishop without one. Not to mention that Bishop hasn't just been injured once or twice - this is three years in a row now. Even if he gets us to the playoffs do you really want to turn things over to a weaker backup with a weaker team in from of him when Bish inevitably gets hurt again?

Finally picture the worst case scenario in both cases. We resign Bishop, losing a key player in the process and having zero cap space to improve the team in other areas. We now have a worse team going forward than the one that couldn't get it done the last couple of years - and that's if nothing goes wrong. Now let's say Bishop's injury problems only get worse and he goes into a massive decline. Then we're stuck with a highly paid goalie on a long term contract who we can't move. To replace him we either have to rely on Gudlevskis or Wilcox (if either is still in the organization) or weaken our skater depth even further to afford a more experienced but mediocre replacement. We don't get anywhere near a Cup and probably not even the playoffs for years.

On the other hand suppose Vasy doesn't pan out. It's OK: he's signed to a contract that doesn't cripple us so we can make a move for a replacement.

We know Bishop can carry our team to the Finals IF he can stay healthy, but the last three years that hasn't happened and expecting him to do so going forward with a weaker team in front of him simply isn't realistic. Vasy may not be good enough to carry us but he CAN be good enough to win with if we can improve the skaters in front of him. That is our best hope barring a massive jump in the cap.

 

[DFC]

But it's not Bishop vs. Vasy, it's Bishop vs. Vasy and Palat/Killorn/a quality 2C. Vasy with a team in front of him is better than Bishop without one. Not to mention that Bishop hasn't just been injured once or twice - this is three years in a row now. Even if he gets us to the playoffs do you really want to turn things over to a weaker backup with a weaker team in from of him when Bish inevitably gets hurt again?

Finally picture the worst case scenario in both cases. We resign Bishop, losing a key player in the process and having zero cap space to improve the team in other areas. We now have a worse team going forward than the one that couldn't get it done the last couple of years - and that's if nothing goes wrong. Now let's say Bishop's injury problems only get worse and he goes into a massive decline. Then we're stuck with a highly paid goalie on a long term contract who we can't move. To replace him we either have to rely on Gudlevskis or Wilcox (if either is still in the organization) or weaken our skater depth even further to afford a more experienced but mediocre replacement. We don't get anywhere near a Cup and probably not even the playoffs for years.

On the other hand suppose Vasy doesn't pan out. It's OK: he's signed to a contract that doesn't cripple us so we can make a move for a replacement.

We know Bishop can carry our team to the Finals IF he can stay healthy, but the last three years that hasn't happened and expecting him to do so going forward with a weaker team in front of him simply isn't realistic. Vasy may not be good enough to carry us but he CAN be good enough to win with if we can improve the skaters in front of him. That is our best hope barring a massive jump in the cap.

If Stamkos walks, I think we can afford to keep Bishop.

Bishop is our MVP. I just don't think you can turn your back on the guy who's undeniably carried the team like he has and hope someone else can fill those shoes. Even if it did come down to losing someone like Killorn, maybe even Palat. I like our chances a lot better when Bishop's in net. Maybe in 3 years he's not the same goalie, but he's just as likely to go into his mid-thirties as a top-5ish guy.

His puck-handling and rebound control make us a vastly better team. It's not like we're talking about downgrading from one good goalie to another. We're talking about downgrading from the guy who's likely the second best goalie in the NHL, maybe the best, and a guy who's probably been the single biggest key to our success over the past three years. Losing Bishop risks taking a massive step backward, just as our core is entering their prime years.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If Stamkos walks, I think we can afford to keep Bishop.

Bishop is our MVP. I just don't think you can turn your back on the guy who's undeniably carried the team like he has and hope someone else can fill those shoes. Even if it did come down to losing someone like Killorn, maybe even Palat. I like our chances a lot better when Bishop's in net. Maybe in 3 years he's not the same goalie, but he's just as likely to go into his mid-thirties as a top-5ish guy.

His puck-handling and rebound control make us a vastly better team. It's not like we're talking about downgrading from one good goalie to another. We're talking about downgrading from the guy who's likely the second best goalie in the NHL, maybe the best, and a guy who's probably been the single biggest key to our success over the past three years. Losing Bishop risks taking a massive step backward, just as our core is entering their prime years.

Even if a Stamkos walks keeping Bishop will be hard unless we can move out Garrison, Filppula and possibly one more big contract.

 

[DFC]

Even if a Stamkos walks keeping Bishop will be hard unless we can move out Garrison, Filppula and possibly one more big contract.

We have contracts we can sacrifice, although some would be difficult to move (Callahan).

I'm all about keeping Garrison, maybe beyond his current contract, but if it's a choice between Bishop and Garrison, it's Bishop all day long. He's just been way too big a part of our success. We really don't know what we'd look like without him. We haven't looked good in front of another goalie in about half a decade.

 

[Todd1a]

If Stamkos walks, I think we can afford to keep Bishop.

Bishop is our MVP. I just don't think you can turn your back on the guy who's undeniably carried the team like he has and hope someone else can fill those shoes. Even if it did come down to losing someone like Killorn, maybe even Palat. I like our chances a lot better when Bishop's in net. Maybe in 3 years he's not the same goalie, but he's just as likely to go into his mid-thirties as a top-5ish guy.

His puck-handling and rebound control make us a vastly better team. It's not like we're talking about downgrading from one good goalie to another. We're talking about downgrading from the guy who's likely the second best goalie in the NHL, maybe the best, and a guy who's probably been the single biggest key to our success over the past three years. Losing Bishop risks taking a massive step backward, just as our core is entering their prime years.

Does anyone know what Stamkos is going to do ? Because it's messing up our offseason plans

 

[tjs*]

If Stamkos walks, I think we can afford to keep Bishop.

Bishop is our MVP. I just don't think you can turn your back on the guy who's undeniably carried the team like he has and hope someone else can fill those shoes. Even if it did come down to losing someone like Killorn, maybe even Palat. I like our chances a lot better when Bishop's in net. Maybe in 3 years he's not the same goalie, but he's just as likely to go into his mid-thirties as a top-5ish guy.

His puck-handling and rebound control make us a vastly better team. It's not like we're talking about downgrading from one good goalie to another. We're talking about downgrading from the guy who's likely the second best goalie in the NHL, maybe the best, and a guy who's probably been the single biggest key to our success over the past three years. Losing Bishop risks taking a massive step backward, just as our core is entering their prime years.

I get what you're saying and I absolutely agree about his importance to the team, but keeping Bishop means losing a good chunk of our core just as they're entering their prime years. Without the cap going up Yzerman would have to pull off a miraculous series of moves to clear up the cap space to keep all our key players. We haven't been able to score points as it is and losing one or two of our best scorers is not going to help matters (and that's not even mentioning the defensive impact of losing guys like Palat and Killorn.)

Who do we have in the organization that can fill Palat's or Killorn's shoes? Perhaps Point could offensively, but he's not the defensive player that either of those forwards is. Gusev again offensively, but he's not going to come over unless we're going to pay him and with Bishop we can't afford to do so. Ernie's not exactly blowing the doors off the AHL. And any of those guys is going to be at least a couple years away from producing at a high level in the NHL, by which point Bishop could well be declining.

I absolutely hate to lose Bishop but ultimately we have better and more ready organizational depth at goal than we do at top six forward right now. The Pens are in the Finals right now and the Rangers and Canadiens are watching from their couches - which team should we emulate?