Blue Jays Discussion: Now is the winter of our (probable) discontent

[MJ65]

 

[phillipmike]

I know it's been asked before, but what do we hope the minimum return for Donaldson from the Cards would include?

What would be the dream scenario?

Mine would be;
1 of RHP Reyes/Weaver/Flaherty
C Carson Kelly
SS Delvin Perez
3B Jedd Gyorko
OF Randal Grichuck

Too much to ask? That's ok, ill keep Donaldson.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Everything is coming up Milhouse.

I know it's been asked before, but what do we hope the minimum return for Donaldson from the Cards would include?

What would be the dream scenario?

Realistic: Gyorko\Wong + Flaherty
Dream (if you're inclined on trading him): Gyorko + Reyes\Weaver + O'Neill + Perez

 

[zeke]

I still can't quite get over this quote, even though it's no surprise. It's like all my anti-shapkins posts were me building up an epic case against them and then them just coming out and proudly admitting everything:

Alex Seixeiro @alexfan590
57m
Mark Shapiro: If we were running this team without a fan base, we probably would've started a rebuild a year ago. We're trying to remain competitive for those fans. #BlueJays #BlairShow


Not only does he show a completely lack of appreciation for how rare it is to own a roster capable of going to back to back ALCS, and not only does he baldly admit that his moves of the last few years have been a fake attempt to "contend"..... but worse he just comes right out and calls us fans ignorant dummies who need to be treated like children and who are getting in the way of his precious rebuild.

Gah. This guy.

 

[Walshy7]

Mine would be;
1 of RHP Reyes/Weaver/Flaherty
C Carson Kelly
SS Delvin Perez
3B Jedd Gyorko
OF Randal Grichuck

Too much to ask? That's ok, ill keep Donaldson.

seems like that may be what the jays are doing, in my reading of that Rosenthal tweet. Basically give us all this or we happily take him into the season. Obviously we have no idea what their high asking price is but its likely big

 

[phillipmike]

Let's run Shapiro out of town! How dare he listen to his bosses!!!

 

[Woodman19]

seems like that may be what the jays are doing, in my reading of that Rosenthal tweet. Basically give us all this or we happily take him into the season. Obviously we have no idea what their high asking price is but its likely big

At least with Donaldson, the Cards have a chance to re-sign him before hitting the market. 0 chance with Machado.

 

[zeke]

the tweets are really messing this thread up for me.

 

[Woodman19]

the tweets are really messing this thread up for me.

Same, the 10 tweets in a single post is killing my phone.

 

[zeke]

the thread explodes and I can't see anything.

 

[Anthrax442]

Gah. This guy.

This guy has people to answer to, and they want butts in seats and eyes on the TV.

 

[zeke]

i have to sneak in posts really quick or else everything dissappears.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They lost Mitch Nay to Cincinnati, not that it really is a big deal. Once highly touted, but the guy kind of needed his hitting and he was hardly passing in Lansing this year as like a 25 year old. At least he covered the costs for one of the three selections the Jays made, because otherwise he probably would have been released. Better than nothing.

The three guys the Jays selected will probably all play at a higher level, and make a bigger impact, than him too.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

This guy has people to answer to, and they want butts in seats and eyes on the TV.

That's not really what Zeke is taking issue with. Its the fact that he\they would even consider rebuilding after back to back ALCS appearances.

 

[zeke]

do I have a settig wrong or something?

 

[Morgs]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could trade JD and then resign him in the off-season ala Chapman.

I'm pretty torn whether it's the best move tbh. We have a roster that could easily make the playoffs, but without that contract extension from JD I don't see the point in keeping him unless we legitimately gear up for a run.

 

[zeke]

and what does taking Gyorko back in a donaldson deal do for us? other than lowering the return of actual good assets?

 

[Woodman19]

and what does taking Gyorko back in a donaldson deal do for us? other than lowering the return of actual good assets?

Replaces him at 3B immediately and has a good contract. He becomes redundant to the Cards if they get Josh.

 

[Nineteen67]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could trade JD and then resign him in the off-season ala Chapman.

The turf, the taxes,and the hassle?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

do I have a settig wrong or something?

Try switching browsers.

and what does taking Gyorko back in a donaldson deal do for us? other than lowering the return of actual good assets?

I don't think it would as your essentially allowing the Cardinals to fit Donaldson's ticket while also clearing their log jam. Also gives you a decent infielder you can plug into your lineup and still compete for a wildcard, or if you're out, deal once more to a contender for further assets.

 

[zeke]

yeah but who cares about replacing Donaldson? if we're trading him we're not contending. Maximize the actual prospect assets we can get back. Don't water down the return with mediocre vets.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could trade JD and then resign him in the off-season ala Chapman.

I'm pretty torn whether it's the best move tbh. We have a roster that could easily make the playoffs, but without that contract extension from JD I don't see the point in keeping him unless we legitimately gear up for a run.

That's Kurtz's strategy, and though it could work in theory, I think the likelihood of pulling it off is very low.

 

[Morgs]

That's Kurtz's strategy, and though it could work in theory, I think the likelihood of pulling it off is very low.

So what's the value of the future return you stated compared to signing him for 5x125-150m.

Based on projections / opinion etc.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

yeah but who cares about replacing Donaldson? if we're trading him we're not contending. Maximize the actual prospect assets we can get back. Don't water down the return with mediocre vets.

With the Cardinals, the maximum return is essentially Reyes (as the rest of their system is underwhelming). If he's in the deal, then I'm not watering down value at all.

Then say as an example, the Rangers are in contention in July, and need a third baseman to replace an aging Beltre. They trade Josh Morgan for Gyorko, and suddenly my return for Donaldson is Reyes + O'Neill + Morgan. Its simply good asset management.

 

[Woodman19]

yeah but who cares about replacing Donaldson? if we're trading him we're not contending. Maximize the actual prospect assets we can get back. Don't water down the return with mediocre vets.

A producing MLB player who stands to increase his offensive output moving to the AL East on a decent contract could further inflate his value if we do end up sucking. Sometimes it's best to go from A->B to finally get to C rather than do all your shopping in one place.