Blue Jays Discussion: Now is the winter of our (probable) discontent

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BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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Something has got to give with the Jays. Nothing really earth shattering happened at these meetings other then Marlins deals. No major free agents signed when normally they do at these meetings. Something is up. Jays make no deals, and everyone intriguing to ultimately improve your team with one signing is still available. Makes me wonder who the Jays are actually in on!!!! Maybe more to all this then we know, but very intriguing. They say they are going to be aggressive but did nothing. But have deals closer then where they were??? Is this free agents or trades? We will see
 

zeke

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Cain is easily the best fit. costs nothing but money. massive upgrade in a corner OF slot and at the top of the order.

give him the 5yrs to get it done. we have zero other commitments in yrs 4 and 5.
 

Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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Cain is easily the best fit. costs nothing but money. massive upgrade in a corner OF slot and at the top of the order.

give him the 5yrs to get it done. we have zero other commitments in yrs 4 and 5.
So how much future salary should we budget for re-signing our own?
 

BlueForever75

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I agree that Cain should be given the money. He is just as valuable as someone like Fowler was last season. I think he is actually better. You lost out last season on Fowler, and you know why. Have the Jays not learned? Are we going to lose out on the same asset as last year and not learned. Would be really stupid if that is really the only holding point on a deal for Cain.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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Cain is easily the best fit. costs nothing but money. massive upgrade in a corner OF slot and at the top of the order.

give him the 5yrs to get it done. we have zero other commitments in yrs 4 and 5.

Its not the AAV, its the years Zeke. For a speed + defense value based player going into his age 32 season.

Give me the ISO + wOBA value based player going into his age 30 season.

So how much future salary should we budget for re-signing our own?

Shouldn't be an issue, actually.
 
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zeke

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Its not the AAV, its the years Zeke. For a speed + defense value based player going into his age 32 season.

Give me the ISO + wOBA value based player going into his age 30 season.



Shouldn't be an issue, actually.

i'm just not as worried about having a bad value contract or two on the books in any given year. especially with guys with enough all around value and skills to likely contribute right to the end even if overpaid the last year or two.
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Any type of commitment to those 2 guys would push them to 250M as they are already at 200M. In a year Kimbrel, Pomperenz and Rodriguez are FAs. In two years you get Hanley and Porcello off the books but Bogarts needs a new deal and you will have to replace Porcello. In 3 years Betts and Bradley need new deals.

Its risky committing to Hosmer and Martinez (you got to think both players get at least 5 years) and couple with Price/Castillo/Pedroia getting a combined 60M for the next 3 years per it will be tough + Panda's 18M, 18M and 5M. But in my opinion Boston's window is this season and next - it is wide open so if its just money they need to go for it; more Martinez in my opinion than Hosmer.

Boston might be better off going after Votto and keeping Bradley. Hanley/Castillo and prospects for Votto - similar to the Stanton deal.
 

Discoverer

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Yeah, there's a bit of balance there. I would hate to see them pay Martinez a reasonable salary and term, but I'm confident Hosmer's contract is going to look really ugly, really fast.
 
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hoc123

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i'm just not as worried about having a bad value contract or two on the books in any given year. especially with guys with enough all around value and skills to likely contribute right to the end even if overpaid the last year or two.
Personally I would rather overpay a little to make sure he stays at 4 years. I wonder of the Jays could almost do a Martin like contract with Cain. Agree to 5 years but underpay the 1'st year so they jays have money to make more moves.
 

hoc123

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Feb 23, 2014
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Yeah, there's a bit of balance there. I would hate to see them pay Martinez a reasonable salary and term, but I'm confident Hosmer's contract is going to look really ugly, really fast.
I really hope they get Hosmer. I'm guessing if they don't get Hosmer they jump straight to Santana.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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i'm just not as worried about having a bad value contract or two on the books in any given year. especially with guys with enough all around value and skills to likely contribute right to the end even if overpaid the last year or two.

Listen, me neither. As evidenced by my support for a Martinez pursuit, and\or Donaldson re-signing. Heck, I'd buy Joey Votto in a Gancarlo Stanton type move. However, what those players are good at has a much greater chance of maintaining over time. You're hoping for a Torii Hunter-esque aging curve, but the likelihood of that outcome is low.
 
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Garlando

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May 5, 2014
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J.D. Martinez and Lorenzo Cain at this point, don't seem to have as much of a market as I think they assumed. We've heard the Red Sox (who have a ton of salary commitments going forward), D-Backs (who supposedly need to shed money), and the Giants (who are in decline). Looking at Cain, we've heard just the Giants (again, in decline with a lacklustre farm system), and the Jays. Perhaps this is a repeat of last offseason where some of the top position players don't receive offers that they were looking for, and the market comes back in favor of the teams. Martinez or Cain at a slight discount possible?
 
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zeke

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Yeah I don't mind hearing the red sox in on those two. I'm not in love with either of them and wouldn't mind seeing them lock ina huge payroll and their roster with these guys. IMO it would leave them defensively challenged all over the infield and I'm not convinced it leaves them with a true elite bat in the middle (i.e. all of JD's biggest years have some weird - and inconsistent - outliers in them).
 

zeke

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Personally I would rather overpay a little to make sure he stays at 4 years. I wonder of the Jays could almost do a Martin like contract with Cain. Agree to 5 years but underpay the 1'st year so they jays have money to make more moves.

me I'd rather have the lower annual rate at more years.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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Yeah I don't mind hearing the red sox in on those two. I'm not in love with either of them and wouldn't mind seeing them lock ina huge payroll and their roster with these guys. IMO it would leave them defensively challenged all over the infield and I'm not convinced it leaves them with a true elite bat in the middle (i.e. all of JD's biggest years have some weird - and inconsistent - outliers in them).

Now you've peaked my interest.
 

zeke

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Listen, me neither. As evidenced by my support for a Martinez pursuit, and\or Donaldson re-signing. Heck, I'd buy Joey Votto in a Gancarlo Stanton type move. However, what those players are good at has a much greater chance of maintaining over time. You're hoping for a Torii Hunter-esque aging curve, but the likelihood of that outcome is low.

i think you may be underrating Cain a bit. Even with the aging curve remember that this guy peaked at 6.5war 2yrs ago and was at 4.1 this year. Hunter never reached that kind of peak and was well below where cain was this year at the same age.

he probably projects to 3-3.5 this year aging down to 1-1.5 in his final year. If you're getting him at a pricetage notably lower than $20m, I think you're probably getting good value out of that deal, and even the last years aren't valueless.
 
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