OT: Non Ski Resort Thread. | OT in all its glory.

[vadim sharifijanov]

Could you tell me exactly how it is racist? Like, I would argue it's exceedingly likely that first generation immigrants do buy poppies at a lower rate than second or later generation immigrants due to it being a cultural custom that is learned. He didn't tell them to leave, he just said they should be buying poppies. He didn't say none of them do, he didn't call the ones who don't disgusting animals or anything insane like that, he just expressed the belief that our Remembrance Day traditions are important and that he wants immigrants to take part in them.

Don't get me wrong, he never should have said it in the first place. Don Cherry is not exactly a wordsmith, I actually think he's legitimately senile and should probably not be on the television, but if expressing the desire for new Canadians to take part in Canadian customs is the bar for racism we're in some serious trouble.

i feel like anytime people hear the words "you people" in a rant, they're going to hear that as racist. and they're not necessarily wrong either.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

So glad to see Don Cherry gone
I know he’s old and his mind was stuck in a different era but
You can’t continue to give a xenophobic/racist person a platform when the enrolment of hockey is slowly dying every year

 

[Blue and Green]

i feel like anytime people hear the words "you people" in a rant, they're going to hear that as racist. and they're not necessarily wrong either.

I agree with this, although plenty of people in the media drone on and on about "white privilege" which strikes me as merely a variation on "you people."

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think Don is almost certainly racist, I just don't think what he said was racist. What he said was in the region where your grandpa starts talking about sensitive topics and you get uncomfortable because of what he'll say next, but Don's time is limited so he didn't get that far.

I think Sportsnet just wanted him gone.

Also, I'm pretty sure Don hates soft white Euros and Russians more than any other ethnic group

Boy, we should be glad for a moment that there weren’t many East/South Asian and Persian descendent players in this league...

 

[Dana Murzyn]

Could you tell me exactly how it is racist? Like, I would argue it's exceedingly likely that first generation immigrants do buy poppies at a lower rate than second or later generation immigrants due to it being a cultural custom that is learned. He didn't tell them to leave, he just said they should be buying poppies. He didn't say none of them do, he didn't call the ones who don't disgusting animals or anything insane like that, he just expressed the belief that our Remembrance Day traditions are important and that he wants immigrants to take part in them.

Don't get me wrong, he never should have said it in the first place. Don Cherry is not exactly a wordsmith, I actually think he's legitimately senile and should probably not be on the television, but if expressing the desire for new Canadians to take part in Canadian customs is the bar for racism we're in some serious trouble.

He contrasted "new" Canadians with "good" Canadians. Gross, inaccurate, and yep, racist.

 

[member 290103]

Or he’s just a moron and went on a rant that forced him to be fired (finally)

this is 10 years too late

Yup - and he effectively puts a big dent in his legacy - which is what he should be concerned with at this stage.

 

[Hit the post]

he effectively puts a big dent in his legacy

Even Marc Crawford won a cup with a roster littered with HHOFers.

Don Cherry? And he had arguably the greatest player of all time in his prime.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

as floored and glad as i am about this, i also am nervous about the oncoming culture war that will be waged on behalf of cherry by those wexit and people's party nutjobs.

the only question that remains is will he allow himself to be instrumentalized and will he even play along? a part of me wants to believe that for all his faults he's a better human being than that. on the other hand, he is probably in an angry and reactionary place right now so i can see him going for it. and he did after all rep for both fords.

 

[Strangelove]

I guess we can debate the differences between xenophobia and racism, but either way, he’s been allowed to have a pulpit to spew his bigoted rhetoric from for far too long.

And now he’s been officially fired. About time.

Well the difference between xenophobia and racism is Yuge.

Two entirely different things, and it's important to distinguish between the two.

Sure they're both manifestations of intolerance, but it ends there.

Speaking of intolerance, it appears the world at large is intolerant of Mr Cherry.

Fair is fair, the world at large should therefore be fired for intolerance.

Listen, we've known of Donny's bigotry for decades yet we always allowed him his pulpit.

He was free to express his xenophobia and we were free to slam him for it.

This was once known as Free Speech.

Try to remember because soon our once-definition of Free Speech will be stricken from the record...

 

[Canucker]

Personally, I think Don Cherry should have retired (or been fired) years ago. He's a relic from another time and his brash, nationalistic views were always going to push the envelope and get himself into trouble. I honestly don't consider him an out and out racist, he's ultra-nationalistic and uneducated/ignorant...he gets sent out on a platform to rant and rave and put on a show, he's going to show his ass...which is why this should have happened a long time ago. He's got a good heart but his brain just isn't there.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Much ado about nothing.

Was past his prime anyways but good luck in retirement.

 

[whoshouse]

This Don Cherry stuff is just so idiotic. So idiotic that it feels like some sort of marketing stunt.

Things have been taken out of context so much. This PC culture is getting out of hand.

And you know what? Even as a part of a family of immigrants, I think Cherry’s opinion is a valid one (even tho it may not actually be his opinion).

I’ve lived in Vancouver for 30 + years and recently moved to Victoria a few years ago. Whenever I come back to Van, I notice how much the neighbourhoods have changed. It used to be that everyone would smile at each other when walking by. Or even knew each other’s names on the block. Now everyone is keeping to themselves and not participating in community events. The culture is definitely changing. And the “Canadian” culture is morphing in to something different.

I recently walked by a poppy donation table at the mall. And I walked by it a few times without really thinking about what exactly it meant to donate to organizations such as these. After watching Cherry’s segment (after the media outcry) it really shook me and reminded me how important it is to be grateful of how free we really are. How abundant we are with opportunity. And how important it is to embrace the feeling of Canadiana.

You may not agree with government actions or war but that doesn’t mean you can’t support our troops and veterans that have incurred so much sacrifice.

It’s just unfortunate that this Rememberance Day will be remembered for Cherry’s “racist” comments and not remembering what this day actually stands for.

 

[Hodgy]

Who would have thought that PoM would have a contrarian view on Don Cherry

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Lmao! Calling Don Cherry a racist is absolutely ridiculous. Said nothing wrong.

 

[Canucker]

Well the difference between xenophobia and racism is Yuge.

Two entirely different things, and it's important to distinguish between the two.

Sure they're both manifestations of intolerance, but it ends there.

Speaking of intolerance, it appears the world at large is intolerant of Mr Cherry.

Fair is fair, the world at large should therefore be fired for intolerance.

Listen, we've known of Donny's bigotry for decades yet we always allowed him his pulpit.

He was free to express his xenophobia and we were free to slam him for it.

This was once known as Free Speech.

Try to remember because soon our once-definition of Free Speech will be stricken from the record...

We've never had "free speech"...ever. You are free to say what you like, but there have always been consequences for language that is deemed offensive...the only thing that has changed is what used to be tolerated is no longer.

 

[mathonwy]

This Don Cherry stuff is just so idiotic. So idiotic that it feels like some sort of marketing stunt.

Things have been taken out of context so much. This PC culture is getting out of hand.

And you know what? Even as a part of a family of immigrants, I think Cherry’s opinion is a valid one (even tho it may not actually be his opinion).

I’ve lived in Vancouver for 30 + years and recently moved to Victoria a few years ago. Whenever I come back to Van, I notice how much the neighbourhoods have changed. It used to be that everyone would smile at each other when walking by. Or even knew each other’s names on the block. Now everyone is keeping to themselves and not participating in community events. The culture is definitely changing. And the “Canadian” culture is morphing in to something different.

I recently walked by a poppy donation table at the mall. And I walked by it a few times without really thinking about what exactly it meant to donate to organizations such as these. After watching Cherry’s segment (after the media outcry) it really shook me and reminded me how important it is to be grateful of how free we really are. How abundant we are with opportunity. And how important it is to embrace the feeling of Canadiana.

You may not agree with government actions or war but that doesn’t mean you can’t support our troops and veterans that have incurred so much sacrifice.

It’s just unfortunate that this Rememberance Day will be remembered for Cherry’s “racist” comments and not remembering what this day actually stands for.

This is EXACTLY the reason why we can not allow a person who's mental faculties stalled 15 years ago on TV and rant about "you people".

The moment you use the term "you people", you divide people into groups.

Groups that keep to themselves and don't participate in community events.

Asking people to donate is important.

What's more important though is HOW you ask people.

And Cherry effed that up big time by being a senile old man.

Which begs the question, who's more at fault here.

The senile old man? Or the network that put that senile old man on TV?

I agree with you that this whole cluster is unfortunate... but it was coming.

 

[whoshouse]

Or maybe 50% of the population agrees with that senile old man said. And they’re too scared to come out and say it?

Since when is it bad to have freedom of speech? And be able to say things you want without causing real tangible harm? I swear this country is going the wrong way.

Perhaps this conversation is needed to be able to fix the underlying issues of this society. But I doubt it. It’ll be used for the opposite.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

This Don Cherry stuff is just so idiotic. So idiotic that it feels like some sort of marketing stunt.

Things have been taken out of context so much. This PC culture is getting out of hand.

And you know what? Even as a part of a family of immigrants, I think Cherry’s opinion is a valid one (even tho it may not actually be his opinion).

I’ve lived in Vancouver for 30 + years and recently moved to Victoria a few years ago. Whenever I come back to Van, I notice how much the neighbourhoods have changed. It used to be that everyone would smile at each other when walking by. Or even knew each other’s names on the block. Now everyone is keeping to themselves and not participating in community events. The culture is definitely changing. And the “Canadian” culture is morphing in to something different.

I recently walked by a poppy donation table at the mall. And I walked by it a few times without really thinking about what exactly it meant to donate to organizations such as these. After watching Cherry’s segment (after the media outcry) it really shook me and reminded me how important it is to be grateful of how free we really are. How abundant we are with opportunity. And how important it is to embrace the feeling of Canadiana.

You may not agree with government actions or war but that doesn’t mean you can’t support our troops and veterans that have incurred so much sacrifice.

It’s just unfortunate that this Rememberance Day will be remembered for Cherry’s “racist” comments and not remembering what this day actually stands for.

What Don failed to realize is that this is 2019 not 1969. Almost half of the country’s population are first or second generation immigrants who came with in the past few decades. By singling out “you people who come here” is literally trying separate the country into half without even realizing while doing it on a freaking sports program

 

[Canucker]

Lets not forget that this isn't an isolated incident with Cherry, the guy is constantly getting himself into trouble for saying things that range from mildly inappropriate to cringeworthy ignorance...Sportsnet really didn't have much choice at this point.

I'll be the first to agree that "PC Culture" has really swung too far to the extreme in a lot of cases, but protecting Don Cherry is not a hill anyone should be prepared to die on.

 

[whoshouse]

And I still question what Cherry meant when he said “you people”. The fact he got fired for saying “you people” is hilariously scary.

How people can construe the meaning of “you people” to mean some sort of racist sentiment isn’t a proper way to really judge his intentions.

I don’t even necessarily like Cherry. But this type of stuff really prevents the country from growing to be intrusive and rather keeps things bottled up while citizens watch their country turn in to something no one will be ready for. Assimilation is important. Productive discussion of what assimilation actually means is even more important.

 

[whoshouse]

What Don failed to realize is that this is 2019 not 1969. Almost half of the country’s population are first or second generation immigrants who came with in the past few decades. By singling out “you people who come here” is literally trying separate the country into half without even realizing while doing it on a freaking sports program

Your comment is totally reasonable but maybe the onus is on the first and second generation of immigrants who get their feelings hurt by the comment “you people who come here”..

 

[Starships]

lets get gaudettes opinion on this

 

[bandwagonesque]

He said it, and then everyone immediately began discussing it, which is good. Almost everyone seems to think it was idiotic and can articulate good arguments for that point of view, which is also good. Everyone seems to be ahead on this. I don't really see a need for him to be fired unless it's strictly economic anxiety on the part of Sportsnet.

 

[tantalum]

Could you tell me exactly how it is racist? Like, I would argue it's exceedingly likely that first generation immigrants do buy poppies at a lower rate than second or later generation immigrants due to it being a cultural custom that is learned. He didn't tell them to leave, he just said they should be buying poppies. He didn't say none of them do, he didn't call the ones who don't disgusting animals or anything insane like that, he just expressed the belief that our Remembrance Day traditions are important and that he wants immigrants to take part in them.

Don't get me wrong, he never should have said it in the first place. Don Cherry is not exactly a wordsmith, I actually think he's legitimately senile and should probably not be on the television, but if expressing the desire for new Canadians to take part in Canadian customs is the bar for racism we're in some serious trouble.

He wasn’t talking about new Canadians in the way you want it to sound. He was talking about how he doesn’t see enough poppies being worn. In particular in downtown Toronto with large minority and immigrant populations. Who does he attribute that to? “You people that come here”. It’s a completely bigoted comment without proof or merit or any sense of knowledge about “those people’s” friends and family sacrifices that may have occurred. It’s cut and dry.

 

[bandwagonesque]

He wasn’t talking about new Canadians in the way you want it to sound. He was talking about how he doesn’t see enough poppies being worn. Who does he attribute that to? “You people that come here”. It’s a completely bigoted comment without proof or merit or any sense of knowledge about “those people’s” friends and family sacrifices that may have occurred. It’s not even a question.

A friend of mine just made the same point. Someone who came here from Turkey or Syria with grounds for a refugee claim might be more inclined to dwell on violence they personally witnessed there a few months ago rather than a war that took place elsewhere three generations ago. And possibly they'd also be self-conscious about appearing to co-opt a tradition they aren't fully familiar with yet.