OT: Non Ski Resort Thread. | OT in all its glory.

[Baby Pettersson]

This Don Cherry stuff is just so idiotic. So idiotic that it feels like some sort of marketing stunt.

Things have been taken out of context so much. This PC culture is getting out of hand.

And you know what? Even as a part of a family of immigrants, I think Cherry’s opinion is a valid one (even tho it may not actually be his opinion).

I’ve lived in Vancouver for 30 + years and recently moved to Victoria a few years ago. Whenever I come back to Van, I notice how much the neighbourhoods have changed. It used to be that everyone would smile at each other when walking by. Or even knew each other’s names on the block. Now everyone is keeping to themselves and not participating in community events. The culture is definitely changing. And the “Canadian” culture is morphing in to something different.

I recently walked by a poppy donation table at the mall. And I walked by it a few times without really thinking about what exactly it meant to donate to organizations such as these. After watching Cherry’s segment (after the media outcry) it really shook me and reminded me how important it is to be grateful of how free we really are. How abundant we are with opportunity. And how important it is to embrace the feeling of Canadiana.

You may not agree with government actions or war but that doesn’t mean you can’t support our troops and veterans that have incurred so much sacrifice.

It’s just unfortunate that this Rememberance Day will be remembered for Cherry’s “racist” comments and not remembering what this day actually stands for.

I think you summed it up as perfectly as humanly possible.

 

[Hockeyphysio]

I do not wear a poppy. It doesn't mean I don't care about soldiers or think about their sacrifice.
What if instead of wearing a poppy everyone took 10 minutes to help at legion elderly home or complete some community service.
I also wish peoples plastic poppy's weren't left all over the forest trails near my home.

 

[Intangibos]

He wasn’t talking about new Canadians in the way you want it to sound. He was talking about how he doesn’t see enough poppies being worn. In particular in downtown Toronto with large minority and immigrant populations. Who does he attribute that to? “You people that come here”. It’s a completely bigoted comment without proof or merit or any sense of knowledge about “those people’s” friends and family sacrifices that may have occurred. It’s cut and dry.

Would it really be shocking if minority populations wore poppies at a lower frequency than white Canadians? I don't think he ever implied no minorities take part. Now, I think he probably underestimates the number of minorities who take part and overestimates how many white Canadians take part as I've seen a lot of white people without poppies this year and I'm sure Cherry has some racist views, but I don't think the words that actually came out of his mouth were particularly racist. I don't think he should have brought it up, I think we do actually know he's probably a little racist and bringing up immigrants is not a good idea, I think feeling the need to bring it up on a hockey program is pretty bad, but it's actually not a completely absurd assumption that immigrant populations take part in traditions like Remembrance Day.

Every single year of your childhood in school they made a big deal out of this day, many of your parents took it seriously too, and new immigrants obviously never had those experiences. They maybe haven't had over a decade of being told how important today is to a lot of people. Don Cherry was expressing how important this day is to many Canadians and that he believes immigrants should be taking part on it. He never said none do.

Why is it unreasonable to suggest that people who weren't raised to take part in our traditions sometimes do so at a lower rate? Why is it so bad to ask people living here to take part in our traditions? How will people know these things without anyone telling them? Is it possible you're taking for granted that non-immigrants have actually had people hammer home the meaning of Remembrance Day throughout their childhood?

I think this is an instance of people just "knowing" that he's actually a racist and then overreacting because they know what he really meant. I understand the thought process, I don't even disagree that he's racist, I too have a strong feeling that Don is racist. I just don't think it's a good idea to be able to punish someone because you know what they were thinking. Thoughtcrime

A friend of mine just made the same point. Someone who came here from Turkey or Syria with grounds for a refugee claim might be more inclined to dwell on violence they personally witnessed there a few months ago rather than a war that took place elsewhere three generations ago. And possibly they'd also be self-conscious about appearing to co-opt a tradition they aren't fully familiar with yet.

And just like that someone tells you what it's about and that they think it's important you take part too. Then he gets fired for saying so.

 

[mathonwy]

A friend of mine just made the same point. Someone who came here from Turkey or Syria with grounds for a refugee claim might be more inclined to dwell on violence they personally witnessed there a few months ago rather than a war that took place elsewhere three generations ago. And possibly they'd also be self-conscious about appearing to co-opt a tradition they aren't fully familiar with yet.

And then having an old man rant at them on national TV to buy a poppy because THEY should be grateful to be in Canada.

That's absolutely THE worst way to ask people for money.

Guilt the other party into compliance?

“You people … you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple bucks for a poppy or something like that,”

Who here responds well to being guilt tripped?

Who here responds well to being painted with the same brush?

Not me that's for darn sure.

Maybe the immigrants though because they're different?

Don is an imbecile.

 

[SoggyBobcat]

Freedom of speech =/ consequence-free speech. Nor does it entitle anyone to a platform to spread their speech.

 

[Addison Rae]

This Don Cherry stuff is just so idiotic. So idiotic that it feels like some sort of marketing stunt.

Things have been taken out of context so much. This PC culture is getting out of hand.

And you know what? Even as a part of a family of immigrants, I think Cherry’s opinion is a valid one (even tho it may not actually be his opinion).

I’ve lived in Vancouver for 30 + years and recently moved to Victoria a few years ago. Whenever I come back to Van, I notice how much the neighbourhoods have changed. It used to be that everyone would smile at each other when walking by. Or even knew each other’s names on the block. Now everyone is keeping to themselves and not participating in community events. The culture is definitely changing. And the “Canadian” culture is morphing in to something different.

.

This is such horse crap, f*** off.

 

[Hit the post]

Every single year of your childhood in school they made a big deal out of this day, many of your parents took it seriously too, and new immigrants obviously never had those experiences.

Weird that the two biggest provinces (Ontario & Quebec) do not (to my knowledge) acknowledge it as a statutory holiday. At least with Quebec I can understand that what with all the controversies (conscription crises, etc.,).

 

[bandwagonesque]

And then having an old man rant at them on national TV to buy a poppy because THEY should be grateful to be in Canada.

That's absolutely THE worst way to ask people for money.

Guilt the other party into compliance?

“You people … you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple bucks for a poppy or something like that,”

Who here responds well to being guilt tripped?

Who here responds well to being painted with the same brush?

Not me that's for darn sure.

Maybe the immigrants though because they're different?

Donn is an imbecile.

Yeah, he said that. Then we all talked about an uncomfortable subject and mostly decided he was wrong. I don't necessarily see the use in silencing or disciplining public figures who make dumb statements.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Your comment is totally reasonable but maybe the onus is on the first and second generation of immigrants who get their feelings hurt by the comment “you people who come here”..

No it is not

 

[Canucker]

Yeah, he said that. Then we all talked about an uncomfortable subject and mostly decided he was wrong. I don't necessarily see the use in silencing or disciplining public figures who make dumb statements.

You may not see the use in it, but Sportsnet has to consider that they have a lot of sponsors who may finally decide to move on if they keep Don around....and what would they do if that Dr.Oetker money stopped flowing in?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

And then having an old man rant at them on national TV to buy a poppy because THEY should be grateful to be in Canada.

That's absolutely THE worst way to ask people for money.

Guilt the other party into compliance?

“You people … you love our way of life, you love our milk and honey, at least you can pay a couple bucks for a poppy or something like that,”

Who here responds well to being guilt tripped?

Who here responds well to being painted with the same brush?

Not me that's for darn sure.

Maybe the immigrants though because they're different?

Donn is an imbecile.

I want to see Don’s reaction when he knows that’s English speaking Caucasian people from Ireland don’t wear poppies.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

You may not see the use in it, but Sportsnet has to consider that they have a lot of sponsors who may finally decide to move on if they keep Don around....and what would they do if that Dr.Oetker money stopped flowing in?

Exactly, I’m sure they all well knew that this isn’t even close to the worst thing Dan has said on air in the past 2 years

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And I still question what Cherry meant when he said “you people”. The fact he got fired for saying “you people” is hilariously scary.

How people can construe the meaning of “you people” to mean some sort of racist sentiment isn’t a proper way to really judge his intentions.

I don’t even necessarily like Cherry. But this type of stuff really prevents the country from growing to be intrusive and rather keeps things bottled up while citizens watch their country turn in to something no one will be ready for. Assimilation is important. Productive discussion of what assimilation actually means is even more important.

Agreed...the outrage committee has struck again...and what a triumph it must be for them that Cherry was ousted on Remembrance Day for an apparent 'racist ' comment..

Nobodys arguing that Cherry is a redneck blowhard...also,. he's from a different generation..and his command of the english language is debatable..

I do commend him on being a spokesmen for war veterans, and the armed forces (my grandpa was a captain in Bomber Command in WW2...and most of his crew and friends were Canadian...at a 45% death rate for bomber crews at the time..many did not survive the war)

 

[mathonwy]

Yeah, he said that. Then we all talked about an uncomfortable subject and mostly decided he was wrong. I don't necessarily see the use in silencing or disciplining public figures who make dumb statements.

I kinda do.

IMO, we can't be wishy washy on these types of things because there's an entire political party south of the 49th that is dedicated to perpetuate the division of people.

Was firing him the right decision? I have no idea.

Has anyone actually tried to explain to Don how, through his words, he has accomplished the EXACT opposite of what he's intended? I have no idea either.

Regardless, he said it and he needs to own it.

And if he doesn't want to put aside his feelings and try to actually understand why his words are so toxic then he really didn't leave Rogers much of a choice.

 

[Nomobo]

They could have ushered him out quietly under the guise of retirement instead of publicly crucifying him in the name of political correctness.

 

[Pip]

Agreed...the outrage committee has struck again...and what a triumph it must be for them that Cherry was ousted on Remembrance Day for an apparent 'racist ' comment..

Nobodys arguing that Cherry is a redneck blowhard...also,. he's from a different generation..and his command of the english language is debatable..

I do commend him on being a spokesmen for war veterans, and the armed forces (my grandpa was a captain in Bomber Command in WW2...and most of his crew and friends were Canadian...at a 45% death rate for bomber crews at the time..many did not survive the war)

making racist comments to own the libs

 

[TraderJim]

Since when is it bad to have freedom of speech? And be able to say things you want without causing real tangible harm? I swear this country is going the wrong way.

How can so many people use "freedom of speech" wrong so often? I swear people should need to get a licence to prove they know what it means before they can use the term "freedom of speech".

 

[Strangelove]

We've never had "free speech"...ever. You are free to say what you like, but there have always been consequences for language that is deemed offensive

Well we do have a little thing called “Freedom of Speech” but yes it does come with limitations.

Freedom of speech in Canada - Wikipedia

...the only thing that has changed is what used to be tolerated is no longer.

Our Freedom of Speech laws haven’t changed.

I was merely being facetious about where we may be headed.

I hope you don’t think what Mr Cherry said could be construed as “Hate Speech”.

Hate speech laws in Canada - Wikipedia

 

[bandwagonesque]

You may not see the use in it, but Sportsnet has to consider that they have a lot of sponsors who may finally decide to move on if they keep Don around....and what would they do if that Dr.Oetker money stopped flowing in?

Certainly. That's likely why it happened.

 

[EpochLink]

You may not see the use in it, but Sportsnet has to consider that they have a lot of sponsors who may finally decide to move on if they keep Don around....and what would they do if that Dr.Oetker money stopped flowing in?

Gotta pay up to the sponsors and shareholders, be damned if they lose money because some old man is spewing shit on the air.

 

[Strangelove]

They could have ushered him out quietly under the guise of retirement instead of publicly crucifying him in the name of political correctness.

The saddest part was watching his old buddy Ron driving the spikes through his wrists and ankles.

 

[Strangelove]

Love that minorities of all kinds should be hated, hurt, and suffer at the behest of white people being allowed to do whatever the **** they want with no consequence

 

[Nomobo]

The saddest part was watching his old buddy Ron driving the spikes into his wrists and ankles.

Yeah, I imagine Ron will probably fade into obscurity now. Cherry made him.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Or maybe 50% of the population agrees with that senile old man said. And they’re too scared to come out and say it?

Since when is it bad to have freedom of speech? And be able to say things you want without causing real tangible harm? I swear this country is going the wrong way.

Perhaps this conversation is needed to be able to fix the underlying issues of this society. But I doubt it. It’ll be used for the opposite.

Not for nothing, but Canadians have limitations on “free speech” — unfettered free speech is more an American concept.

Not advocating for/against, just clearing up a common misconception Canadians have.

 

[PG Canuck]

They could have ushered him out quietly under the guise of retirement instead of publicly crucifying him in the name of political correctness.

for all the hatred and xenophobia he’s displayed over the years, he got off pretty damn easy.