Non-Minnesota NHL News XIV

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't think anyone is defending Torts here. The point is, Hartley is just as big of a dbag as Torts. He is just more of a level-headed type of dbag, that's all.

I am, as far as him being mad at Hartley goes, not so much the whole "restraining him from going into their locker room" hissy fit. That was pretty over the line.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It wasn't just a "4th line" though. It's also where the guys were played that got him in trouble. Westgarth was sent out as a center, he has taken 2 faceoffs all year. The puck gets dropped, and he doesn't even attempt to play it, just chucks the gloves and grabs Bieksa. THAT'S the problem here.
Another issue for me, is Hartley said he started them because the 4th line had been playing so well lately. Well first off, that "line" hadn't been a line, Jones is coming off injury in that game, so he hadn't been playing and even after losing 2/3rd's of that line and being down to 10 forwards, the guy who wasn't kicked out, (McGrattan) played a total of 3 minutes in the game, despite the team being shorthanded. Playing well my foot, Hartley sent them out to do exactly what they did.

It would be the same thing as Lemaire throwing out a Simon/Boogaard/Fedoruk line, with Boogaard taking the faceoff, to start the game. It would be so transparently ridiculous.

 

[MuckOG]

If Torts is the "victim" or good guy in all of this, then so is OJ Simpson, Bin Laden, Ted Bundy, Wayne Gacy and Justin Bieber.

Oh no!! Not that!!!

 

[NHL1674]

It would be the same thing as Lemaire throwing out a Simon/Boogaard/Fedoruk line, with Boogaard taking the faceoff, to start the game. It would be so transparently ridiculous.

True. But no more ridiculous than the stunts that the Canucks were pulling on their west coast trip. Not supporting Hartley, but I could see how he may want to send a message after watching the way Vancouver played the previous games.

 

[OpRedDawn*]

can he be fined for starting his 4th line on the first offensive zone? what if it was technically his 3rd line? what if it was 3rd line quality but playing the 4th line? the whole thing is stupid. You shouldn't be punished for putting players on the playing surface.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

can he be fined for starting his 4th line on the first offensive zone? what if it was technically his 3rd line? what if it was 3rd line quality but playing the 4th line? the whole thing is stupid. You shouldn't be punished for putting players on the playing surface.

Yes, you should, if the players you put out there have no interest in actually playing the sport.

 

[Jarick]

I think every visiting coach should start their 4th line against Vancouver. If that's what gets Tortorella unglued, exploit it. The guy is an idiot.

 

[OpRedDawn*]

Yes, you should, if the players you put out there have no interest in actually playing the sport.

how can you judge that? by that logic lemaire should've been fined every time boogy was put on the ice, because he's only there to fight and make hits. What does it matter if it's to start the game or after 2nd faceoff?

I don't think we should be allowed to start our checking line because they might be tougher than the opponents starting line

 

[NHL1674]

I think every visiting coach should start their 4th line against Vancouver. If that's what gets Tortorella unglued, exploit it. The guy is an idiot.

Now THAT would be hilarious. Have every opponent do that the rest of the season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

how can you judge that? by that logic lemaire should've been fined every time boogy was put on the ice, because he's only there to fight and make hits. What does it matter if it's to start the game or after 2nd faceoff?

I don't think we should be allowed to start our checking line because they might be tougher than the opponents starting line

Boogy rarely, if ever, engaged an unwilling combatent off the faceoff. Maybe you can find an example.

It doesn't matter when or really who, it matters that they had absolutely no intent to actually play the sport. He got fined because Westgarth engaged an unwilling combatent and the league deemed that it was because that's what he was sent out there to do. That's what the player selection fine is.

Yes, if Yeo starts Brodziak/Cooke/Fontaine against the Sedins and they just start wailing on them right after the puck is dropped, that would also qualify. If they just play them physical within the rules of the game, then it's fine.

 

[OpRedDawn*]

Boogy rarely, if ever, engaged an unwilling combatent off the faceoff. Maybe you can find an example.

It doesn't matter when or really who, it matters that they had absolutely no intent to actually play the sport. He got fined because Westgarth engaged an unwilling combatent and the league deemed that it was because that's what he was sent out there to do. That's what the player selection fine is.

Yes, if Yeo starts Brodziak/Cooke/Fontaine against the Sedins and they just start wailing on them right after the puck is dropped, that would also qualify. If they just play them physical within the rules of the game, then it's fine.

Except that's not what happened at all. Bieksa got bearhugged, and chose not to drop his gloves. Westgarth grabbed some other dude, who chose to drop the gloves. It's not like he started punching an unsuspecting player. If you don't want to fight, don't drop the gloves. When Torts chooses to put his 4th line out there, it's HIM who is saying lets have the brawl. It's not like someone would just grab a sedin and KO them

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Except that's not what happened at all. Bieksa got bearhugged, and chose not to drop his gloves. Westgarth grabbed some other dude, who chose to drop the gloves. It's not like he started punching an unsuspecting player. If you don't want to fight, don't drop the gloves. When Torts chooses to put his 4th line out there, it's HIM who is saying lets have the brawl. It's not like someone would just grab a sedin and KO them

You'd want him to take that chance?

 

[OpRedDawn*]

You'd want him to take that chance?

So should the small guys just run off of the ice whenever tough guys are out there?

 

[Gaps]

I think every visiting coach should start their 4th line against Vancouver. If that's what gets Tortorella unglued, exploit it. The guy is an idiot.

I have to agree with you. Hartley was baiting him and he swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.

 

[Jarick]

I would also start my top line any time a visiting coach starts his fourth line. Easiest decision ever.

 

[Dampland]

I think every visiting coach should start their 4th line against Vancouver. If that's what gets Tortorella unglued, exploit it. The guy is an idiot.

Agree 100%

The Casucks would get pretty tired of have 5 guys in the box to start every game, because they went ape **** because Torts told them to "stand up for your teammates" I would rather have Todd Richards and Mike Yeo coach the Wild for the next 20 years, than have Torts set foot in the Wild lockerroom even once.

 

[Dampland]

Yes I think they would have grabbed the Sedins and started punching, it's what they were sent out to do. Three Flames had their gloves off before the puck hit the ice, they were going to do that regardless of who Torts sent out there. Torts is not stupid, he knows who is behind the opposing bench and what his history is with goon players. Henrick was already banged up, so he is not going to risk it and he shouldn't have to.
You can hate on Torts, but you are going way overboard here, especially with your "comparisons"

Sorry, but I disagree. As soon as the Sedin sisters turtled, the other guys would just start looking for someone else who was willing. I've never seen NHL guys off a face off to start a game beat up a person who clearly was not willing to engage in the fight.
(well except for that KHL game a couple years ago, the team that signed a bunch of AHL goons)

No if we were talking about the Sedins spearing Westgarth in the nuts, and then turtling, well yeah I would guess he would swing away for a bit. But I refuse to belief that the Calgary goons would have beat on the turtling Sedins. no way. Especially at the start of a game, when the emotions aren't even fired up yet.

 

[llamapalooza]

The rules call for a coach to be fined $10k if his player takes an instigator penalty in the last five minutes of the game. There's also a $25k team (not coach) fine if players get involved in a fight not during a period of play; technically this is "during play" but considering how far outside the spirit of the law this is, I can see why the league would want to hand down a fine anyway.

To be clear, I'm not saying Hartley is being fined under either of these rules, just that there's absolutely precedent for a coach to be fined for his players' instigating or even just fighting at an egregious time. Wouldn't surprise me if this gets amended in the offseason to explicitly punish coaches for putting out players who immediately start a brawl off the initial faceoff.

 

[Puhis]

The rules call for a coach to be fined $10k if his player takes an instigator penalty in the last five minutes of the game. There's also a $25k team (not coach) fine if players get involved in a fight not during a period of play; technically this is "during play" but considering how far outside the spirit of the law this is, I can see why the league would want to hand down a fine anyway.

To be clear, I'm not saying Hartley is being fined under either of these rules, just that there's absolutely precedent for a coach to be fined for his players' instigating or even just fighting at an egregious time. Wouldn't surprise me if this gets amended in the offseason to explicitly punish coaches for putting out players who immediately start a brawl off the initial faceoff.

Hmm. The last part sounds like we might finally get rid of staged fighting, no?

 

[Sportsfan1]

I like Torts fiery attitude, I'm not defending the guy because the locker room stunt was stupid and ridiculous. I thought the most entertaining part though was Torts yelling at Hartley from the bench during the brawl, that I found fun.

But yeah if I'm the opposition I'd just start my (normal) fourth line every time to see what happens.

 

[Billy Mays Here*]

Del Zotto for Klein.

Good deal for both teams. Nashville can now put Jones back on the right side where he belongs and they've got a solid top 4 going forward with Josi, Jones, Weber and DZ.

Rangers get a badly needed right handed d-man on a good contract and get rid of a guy they didn't have all that much use for anymore who wasn't playing the best of hockey.

 

[Engebretson]

Del Zotto for Klein.

Good deal for both teams. Nashville can now put Jones back on the right side where he belongs and they've got a solid top 4 going forward with Josi, Jones, Weber and DZ.

Rangers get a badly needed right handed d-man on a good contract and get rid of a guy they didn't have all that much use for anymore who wasn't playing the best of hockey.

Klein always seemed like a guy who was really tough to play against, so I'm glad he's out of the division.

I haven't seen enough of Del Zotto to really know what the Preds are getting. He almost seems like the kind of guy who is valued more on HF than what his actual value would be.

 

[tyratoku]

 

[Minnesota]

I like Del Zotto... Quick-skating two-way defenseman that likes to chip-in in the offensive zone. Uses his speed through the neutral zone to help with zone-entries. Remind me a bit of a more defensively sound Nick Leddy.

 

[Billy Mays Here*]

If Del Zotto can tap in to all that potential he has then the Preds have an extremely good defense behind them. Of course they still need forwards though so until that happens I'm not worried about them.