OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread XI - Defense? Who Needs Defense?! (Wade Wilson Memorial Edition)

[Wabit]

The NFL skills competition was very entertaining to me. The QB passing was somethign I wanted to see all the NFL QBs do. The long snapping part was more fun than it had any right to be in a similar way to watching curling.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I think JJ McCarthy would be a sneaky good QB for the vikings to trade up and take at the end of the 1st round.

 

[57special]

I think JJ McCarthy would be a sneaky good QB for the vikings to trade up and take at the end of the 1st round.

I wish i could trust you...

 

[Sota Popinski]

Big win for the Gopher hoops team. Entertaining one to watch. 4th place in the b1g. We're back!

 

[Digitalbooya]

I wish i could trust you...

My YouTube queue at work has decided that, once I get finished with all the packers podcasts, the vikings podcasts are my next listen. I now know more about the vikings than I ever wanted to know.

I go from Locked On Packers, to the Pack-A-Day Podcast, to Basaraski Productions, to Sideline Scoop, to The Paul Farrington Show, to Purple Daily. Sometimes I get a Timberwolves podcast. I skip those cause they are not entertaining and basketball sucks.

 

[MuckOG]

I think JJ McCarthy would be a sneaky good QB for the vikings to trade up and take at the end of the 1st round.

I just don't want to get caught in a game of musical chairs and miss out. We NEED to address the future of the QB position in this draft. I don't care if we have to move up or down to do it, just make sure we aren't on the outside looking in when its all said and done.

 

[57special]

I just don't want to get caught in a game of musical chairs and miss out. We NEED to address the future of the QB position in this draft. I don't care if we have to move up or down to do it, just make sure we aren't on the outside looking in when its all said and done.

Do we, if we decide to bring back Kirk? Do we really want to reach, and get the next Christian Ponder, or Teddy Bridgewater? I have no clue if McDaniels, Nix, or Penix will be good NFL QB's...Penix seems like he might have a lot in common with Bridgewater, though with him you know coming in about his injury problems.

As someone who is old enough to have watched Tarkenton, I would love to see the Vikings pick up a franchise QB, but if he isn't there, then let's not waste our 1st pick.

In the past, the Vikings have been good at picking skill players, but awful at picking QB's. That needs to change, and hopefully KOC has the insight to be a big part of that. Rather than reach for a player in the 1st, I'd rather they get the next Brock Purdy later on in the draft, and get a really good lineman or CB at #11 that can anchor those two positions for the next 10 years.

 

[MuckOG]

Do we, if we decide to bring back Kirk? Do we really want to reach, and get the next Christian Ponder, or Teddy Bridgewater? I have no clue if McDaniels, Nix, or Penix will be good NFL QB's...Penix seems like he might have a lot in common with Bridgewater, though with him you know coming in about his injury problems.

As someone who is old enough to have watched Tarkenton, I would love to see the Vikings pick up a franchise QB, but if he isn't there, then let's not waste our 1st pick.

In the past, the Vikings have been good at picking skill players, but awful at picking QB's. That needs to change, and hopefully KOC has the insight to be a big part of that. Rather than reach for a player in the 1st, I'd rather they get the next Brock Purdy later on in the draft, and get a really good lineman or CB at #11 that can anchor those two positions for the next 10 years.

Ideally, we re-sign Kirk (or another capable veteran) to a 1 or 2 year deal and draft a QB. This gives the young QB a year or two to develop and eventually take over the position.

I also don't want to reach for the next Ponder...but at some point here, we are going to need a franchise QB for the future where we will have control over them for a few years before they start making top dollars. It really hamstrings a team to sign an expensive free agent QB who takes up a huge chunk of cap space.

Finding the next Purdy is alot like finding the next Kaprizov in the later rounds. It happens, but very rarely. The majority of the recent top QBs have been selected in the top two rounds, mostly in the 1st round.

 

[TaLoN]

Ideally, we re-sign Kirk (or another capable veteran) to a 1 or 2 year deal and draft a QB. This gives the young QB a year or two to develop and eventually take over the position.

I also don't want to reach for the next Ponder...but at some point here, we are going to need a franchise QB for the future where we will have control over them for a few years before they start making top dollars. It really hamstrings a team to sign an expensive free agent QB who takes up a huge chunk of cap space.

Finding the next Purdy is alot like finding the next Kaprizov in the later rounds. It happens, but very rarely. The majority of the recent top QBs have been selected in the top two rounds, mostly in the 1st round.

The last Brock Purdy was Tom Brady. The one before that was Joe Montana. Pretty hard to find those.

 

[MuckOG]

The last Brock Purdy was Tom Brady. The one before that was Joe Montana. Pretty hard to find those.

Setting aside Williams and Maye because it's doubtful we could trade up to get either of them, I would like the Vikings to figure out away to get someone in the next group: Daniels, Penix, or McCarthy. I'm not quite sure what to think of Nix.

I really like McCarthy, maybe its because he's just been a winner and has done well playing in the big games...and seems to have that intangible "it" factor. The mocks I've seen have him going anywhere from #10 to the early 2nd round. The best scenario is for him falling to the Vikings at #42, which would allow them to select an edge rusher at #11. But my stomach would be turning with anxiety hoping that nobody else jumps up and grabs him before he falls to #42..

 

[57special]

I don't know what the hit rate is on QB's taken in the top 10 picks, vs. other positions. I would guess it is far, far lower. It's just that the payoff for getting a top QB is so high vs any other position, both on the field, and cap wise, until their ELC runs out, so it justifies taking a gamble on a QB over other positions.

Top QB's make what, 55M/yr, while top OT's, DE's, or CB's make 25M max?

 

[TaLoN]

I don't know what the hit rate is on QB's taken in the top 10 picks, vs. other positions. I would guess it is far, far lower. It's just that the payoff for getting a top QB is so high vs any other position, both on the field, and cap wise, until their ELC runs out, so it justifies taking a gamble on a QB over other positions.

Top QB's make what, 55M/yr, while top OT's, DE's, or CB's make 25M max?

You hit on that top QB in the first round, you get the MAXIMUM benefit of a young QB too, that 5th year option on a franchise QB is so damned invaluable in getting a solid team around him.
You have to take the risk... the payoff if you hit is second to none in the NFL.

 

[Wabit]

The last Brock Purdy was Tom Brady. The one before that was Joe Montana. Pretty hard to find those.

Kurt Warner was undrafted. Wilson was a 3rd. Favre was a 2nd. A-Rod was a 20 something pick. So you can get a Super Bowl QB from more places than a top-3 pick.

 

[MuckOG]

Kurt Warner was undrafted. Wilson was a 3rd. Favre was a 2nd. A-Rod was a 20 something pick. So you can get a Super Bowl QB from more places than a top-3 pick.

I dont think anyone claiming the QB needs to be top 3. Mahomes was picked 10th. But its undeniable that the vast majority of big time QBs are selected in the first and second rounds, most of them are in the 1st round. Warner, Purdy, Brady and Wilson are just the exceptions. Every round you wait the odds get steeper.

 

[TaLoN]

Kurt Warner was undrafted. Wilson was a 3rd. Favre was a 2nd. A-Rod was a 20 something pick. So you can get a Super Bowl QB from more places than a top-3 pick.

Who said anything about a top 3 pick? We were talking about first round...

 

[Wabit]

Who said anything about a top 3 pick? We were talking about first round...

Different posts say different things, so I went with a high somewhat arbitrary number that teams pay a high price to trade for. Probably because I just read an article that said MN should trade up into the top couple of picks for a QB (and pay a stupidly high price to do so).

 

[57special]

You hit on that top QB in the first round, you get the MAXIMUM benefit of a young QB too, that 5th year option on a franchise QB is so damned invaluable in getting a solid team around him.
You have to take the risk... the payoff if you hit is second to none in the NFL.

I mean, the difference between a star QB and a star other position is about 30M +/-. That will buy you two really good O lineman, which will go a long way towards helping a QB be effective.

I just wonder if Fields is worth taking a chance on, if he is available for cheap from the Bears. He has one more year on his ELC, and a 5th year option. He has been in such a bad situation in CHI it's hard to tell what is his fault, and what is one the Bears. He is athletic as hell... I wonder what he would do with a good O line(O'Neill, #11, Darrisaw), and JJ, Addison, and Hockenson.

If he ends up being a dud, then we revisit things in a year or two. I'd just rather pay him the 4-5M than Cousins 40M, though it's a bit more complicated than that.

 

[Wabit]

I mean, the difference between a star QB and a star other position is about 30M +/-. That will buy you two really good O lineman, which will go a long way towards helping a QB be effective.

I just wonder if Fields is worth taking a chance on, if he is available for cheap from the Bears. He has one more year on his ELC, and a 5th year option. He has been in such a bad situation in CHI it's hard to tell what is his fault, and what is one the Bears. He is athletic as hell... I wonder what he would do with a good O line(O'Neill, #11, Darrisaw), and JJ, Addison, and Hockenson.

If he ends up being a dud, then we revisit things in a year or two. I'd just rather pay him the 4-5M than Cousins 40M, though it's a bit more complicated than that.

I'd like to see Fields play for MN (I really want to see him on the Raiders). I don't think CHI would trade him to a Division team, just in case he turns into a stud and whoever they draft turns into another "Bears QB."

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd be down for taking defense at #11 and trading a 2nd rounder for Fields. Then see if any of the 2nd/3rd tier QBs fall to the 3rd round.

Would be funny if Bowers falls and they take him.

 

[MuckOG]

I'd be down for taking defense at #11 and trading a 2nd rounder for Fields. Then see if any of the 2nd/3rd tier QBs fall to the 3rd round.

Would be funny if Bowers falls and they take him.

The Vikings currently don't have a 3rd round pick (part of the Hockenson deal). They would need to trade up to get into the 3rd round, which is probably do-able.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I'd be down for taking defense at #11 and trading a 2nd rounder for Fields. Then see if any of the 2nd/3rd tier QBs fall to the 3rd round.

Would be funny if Bowers falls and they take him.

Fields would be hilarious on the Vikings.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

Alright fellas, don't take away my MN card...I haven't followed the Vikes since 2012sh. I have caught maybe 3 or 4 games the last year or two. All I know is that we have Cousins and Jefferson. So, explain to me like I am 5 who is good on the team, is anything going on with the coaching staff, etc. I am going to try to participate more this year re Vikes as I plan to get a football package so I can watch the games.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Alright fellas, don't take away my MN card...I haven't followed the Vikes since 2012sh. I have caught maybe 3 or 4 games the last year or two. All I know is that we have Cousins and Jefferson. So, explain to me like I am 5 who is good on the team, is anything going on with the coaching staff, etc. I am going to try to participate more this year re Vikes as I plan to get a football package so I can watch the games.

Addison is a good receiver. Hockenson an excellent tight end. Danielle Hunter is good, but uncertain if he is returning or not (same with Cousins). I believe Darrisaw is considered a good offensive lineman.

Needs:
-Franchise QB
-Starting RB
-Run stopping lineman
-Edge rusher

 

[Jbcraig1883]

Addison is a good receiver. Hockenson an excellent tight end. Danielle Hunter is good, but uncertain if he is returning or not (same with Cousins). I believe Darrisaw is considered a good offensive lineman.

Needs:
-Franchise QB
-Starting RB
-Run stopping lineman
-Edge rusher

Thank you.

A couple of coworkers told me that the running game has changed in that teams don't need a star RB anymore - like a Peterson, Sanders, etc. A lot of teams run by committee with a QB that can also rush. Is that true?

Do they have any strengths right now - seems like receivers with Jefferson and Addison?

 

[TaLoN]

I just wonder if Fields is worth taking a chance on

HELL NO!

Not a fan...