Non-Hockey Sports Thread VII

[Wabit]

NHL preseason is better than NFL preaseason usually.

The NFL preseason only has 1 week of any REAL value... the 3rd week of preseason when the starters play the entire first half and possibly into the 3rd quarter. The rest of it? Worthless to fans for the most part.

Preseason hockey usually has some actual entertainment for fans for a couple games at least.

Ill give you the couple of (usually home) games, but didn't the Wild run a Foligno/JEE/Coyle top line for a couple of preseason games last season?

 

[Wild11MN]

Yeah for football I'm basically only watching one half of the third preseason game every year in most cases, which produces at least decent football. There is practically no reason I would ever watch preseason hockey.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

i dont think i can watch preseason football for more than a quarter till week 3. only watched last week just to have something to do.

 

[TaLoN]

Ill give you the couple of (usually home) games, but didn't the Wild run a Foligno/JEE/Coyle top line for a couple of preseason games last season?

Usually on the road early they don't bring the whole squad.

i dont think i can watch preseason football for more than a quarter till week 3. only watched last week just to have something to do.

I haven't watched any pre-season football yet outside of video of the Vike's first drive last week.

I'll probably catch the first quarter of the Vikes game tomorrow... and I'll actually be at the game next week vs Seattle... the only one worth watching.

 

[Wild11MN]

Even though I mentioned I rarely watch preseason, I was bored. The Vikings offense looks terrible right now. Jags are a good D, but still brutal.

 

[TaLoN]

Meh, no game plans yet. Murray fumbled twice... that's the only real concern.

Top two defenses in the league, neither offense looked good, starters finished 7-3 Jags...

Complete penalty fest as typical in preseason.

 

[Spurgeon]

Meh, no game plans yet. Murray fumbled twice... that's the only real concern.

Top two defenses in the league, neither offense looked good, starters finished 7-3 Jags...

Complete penalty fest as typical in preseason.

Not too concerned about Murray if Cook is healthy. Cook is going to get a very large share of the carries if his knee holds up. Murray's also never had fumble issues in his past so it's likely just an anomaly.

 

[TaLoN]

Not too concerned about Murray if Cook is healthy. Cook is going to get a very large share of the carries if his knee holds up. Murray's also never had fumble issues in his past so it's likely just an anomaly.

Still don't like to see it so often. Means the Jags saw something they could exploit this past week of practice and now it's on film for the rest of the league.

Yes Cook is the main guy, but Murray will still get significant playing time.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Still don't like to see it so often. Means the Jags saw something they could exploit this past week of practice and now it's on film for the rest of the league.

Yes Cook is the main guy, but Murray will still get significant playing time.

I think what bugged me most about the game, even though preseason, was just how many penalties were thrown. Super ugly, slowed the game down, hard to get into a groove with all that then add Murray fumbling twice. Just an ugly game glad it was in preseason.

 

[TaLoN]

I think what bugged me most about the game, even though preseason, was just how many penalties were thrown. Super ugly, slowed the game down, hard to get into a groove with all that then add Murray fumbling twice. Just an ugly game glad it was in preseason.

Penalty fest sloppy football is one of the biggest reasons why NFL preseason is so bad in the first place.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Penalty fest sloppy football is one of the biggest reasons why NFL preseason is so bad in the first place.

Agreed, this new helmet rule made it worse though as i dont see how getting run over with your head down can result in your getting penalized.

 

[Victorious Secret]

Koufax's 4 no-hitters, 137 complete games, 40 shutouts, 2 WS MVPs, 3 WS rings, his best 5 year span of ERA was a .195, set multiple records for a lefty pitcher... He also was forced to retired at the top of his game due to a bum elbow. Koufax was on Hasek's level of greatness.

Santana was borderline great for a 5 year span, but that's a short time frame, and he doesn't have the post-season track record to be considered for the HoF. The closest active comparable I can think of would be if Kershaw was to retire at the end of the season. He has better overall stats than Santana, but doesn't belong in the HoF either.

And Santana has a better adjusted ERA+. And 10th best ERA+ of a 5 year period all-time. 2 Cy Young awards (1 that was stolen), 3 ERA titles, Triple Crown (one of only 12 MLB TCs)

I'm not saying Santana is a Hall of Famer, but to call him 'borderline great' is selling him short. He was elite at his peak.

And to attribute the lack of post-season success isn't purely on Santana. Not even close. Saying Kershaw is a non-Hall of Famer erroneous at best.

 

[SupremeNachos]

And Santana has a better adjusted ERA+. And 10th best ERA+ of a 5 year period all-time. 2 Cy Young awards (1 that was stolen), 3 ERA titles, Triple Crown (one of only 12 MLB TCs)

I'm not saying Santana is a Hall of Famer, but to call him 'borderline great' is selling him short. He was elite at his peak.

And to attribute the lack of post-season success isn't purely on Santana. Not even close. Saying Kershaw is a non-Hall of Famer erroneous at best.

I know not everyone can agree on this argument but the hitters that Santana and Kershaw have faced are miles better than what Koufax did. The HoF voters need to take things like this into consideration when they turn in their ballots instead of the "never seen him play but I know he is the bestest".

 

[Wabit]

And Santana has a better adjusted ERA+. And 10th best ERA+ of a 5 year period all-time. 2 Cy Young awards (1 that was stolen), 3 ERA titles, Triple Crown (one of only 12 MLB TCs)

I'm not saying Santana is a Hall of Famer, but to call him 'borderline great' is selling him short. He was elite at his peak.

And to attribute the lack of post-season success isn't purely on Santana. Not even close. Saying Kershaw is a non-Hall of Famer erroneous at best.

Santana's had a very good peak, HoF worthy if he could have maintained that level for 5-10 more years. The same goes for Kershaw, and he needs another 5+ quality years before he's even close to consideration.

The average HoF pitcher has a stat line of: 18 years, 4 ASG, 70 WAR, 251 wins, 2.99 ERA, .589 W/L%, 456 GS, 255 CG, 40 SHO, 3764 IP, 2144 K's, 15532 BF. This includes both starters and closers, different eras, etc. Quality longevity is rewarded more often than great but short peak careers. Post season success (fair or not) gives guys that had it a leg up on guys that weren't on good teams (this is true for all HoF's).

Santana meets a few of the average HoFer benchmarks (mainly K's stats). He actually would fall in the bottom 10 (of 76 HoF pitchers) in years, wins, IP, CG, SHO, Games, and BF (after a cursory glance at the stats).

Sabathia has a better chance to make the HoF, but after he got injured he wasn't near the same pitcher. If he had continued with a gradual decline instead of falling off a cliff he would have been a HoF lock.

 

[Wabit]

I know not everyone can agree on this argument but the hitters that Santana and Kershaw have faced are miles better than what Koufax did. The HoF voters need to take things like this into consideration when they turn in their ballots instead of the "never seen him play but I know he is the bestest".

I think the game has evolved since Koufax's time. Bats are lighter, ballparks (for the most part) are more hitter friendly, the shift, pitchers are also throwing a lot harder, day games were the norm. The hit-and-run has disappeared from the game. K's are at all-time highs. Batted balls in play are at all-time lows. The DH was added to the game.

So many relievers used every game. 2017 had 2 pitchers over 210 IP, 1963 had 43 over 210IP (2 per team) and 3 pitchers over 310 IP. '63 NYY pitchers had 59 CG (lead MLB) in 161 games, 2017 had a total of 59 CG combined in a total of 4860 games.

Pitching standards will have to be changed somewhat in the future, or there won't be any more starting pitchers going into the HoF. If the TB experiment (Col tried something similar a few years ago) catches hold true starters (7+ IP, 100+ p per start) will become endangered species.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Kershaw might not get enough wins to satisfy some voters but reaching 3000ks with a sub 3era will get him in. I looked up his stats and I was surprised at how few complete games he has, but then I guess the way managers are handling their pitchers in the past 20yrs has changed in that aspect as well.

 

[57special]

Sloter for President! Beebe for VP!
Last minute, come from behind TD's are so much fun.

Oh, and CJ Ham.

 

[Wabit]

Kershaw might not get enough wins to satisfy some voters but reaching 3000ks with a sub 3era will get him in. I looked up his stats and I was surprised at how few complete games he has, but then I guess the way managers are handling their pitchers in the past 20yrs has changed in that aspect as well.

If he gets to 3000 K's he should be at/near the 200 win mark also, both are 3-4 healthy seasons away (using his current 16 W and 245 K's season averages as a baseline). It would take a lot of bad for his career ERA to get above 3.00. If he was to walk away from baseball after this season he wouldn't make it into the HoF.

He's had some health issues 2 of the last 3 seasons, but if he can stay healthy and not fall off a cliff he's on a good pace to get in. Some post-seasons success would do a lot for him too. His 7-7 record and 4.35 ERA just aren't inspiring.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Vikings traded for good ol' Saskatchewan boy, Brett Jones.

Can start at C if Elflein isn't ready to go or play guard when Elf is back. Nice addition at an area of need!

 

[Wild11MN]

Vikings traded for good ol' Saskatchewan boy, Brett Jones.

Can start at C if Elflein isn't ready to go or play guard when Elf is back. Nice addition at an area of need!

If nothing else, they need depth. Good move even if he doesn't start. Still very concerned about the OL though.

 

[TaLoN]

If nothing else, they need depth. Good move even if he doesn't start. Still very concerned about the OL though.

Provides guard depth besides Center starting insurance. He's a good run blocker like the rest of our offensive linemen as well.

We may not have the best line for pass protection, but with Cook and Murray both capable of big plays out of the backfield, our run game and screen pass game may keep defenses guessing enough that they don't have tobe great at pass protection.

I'm guessing we're going to have an extremely effective playaction game.

 

[chchelseII]

Have followed the Twins very little this year. Is there any reason for hope. Any new young players worth watching?

 

[BigT2002]

Have followed the Twins very little this year. Is there any reason for hope. Any new young players worth watching?

Talking with die hards, no this team is dead in the water. Not because they can't beat great teams (they basically have owned Cleveland all year it feels like when I see the scores), but because the Yankees are red hot and the Red Sox are just as dominate as Cleveland has been.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Talking with die hards, no this team is dead in the water. Not because they can't beat great teams (they basically have owned Cleveland all year it feels like when I see the scores), but because the Yankees are red hot and the Red Sox are just as dominate as Cleveland has been.

The new GM and his boys have not shown anything different when it comes to signing FAs. They are spending more but spending it on players that we don't need. The Pohlads are one of the richest owners in MLB and could easily add another 50-60m to their salary.

 

[BigT2002]

The new GM and his boys have not shown anything different when it comes to signing FAs. They are spending more but spending it on players that we don't need. The Pohlads are one of the richest owners in MLB and could easily add another 50-60m to their salary.

But hey! We are all paying for a lovely outdoor concert stadium