Non-Hockey Sports Thread VII

[Engebretson]

So, I decided to go back in time a bit and look up Santana's stats. Santana won 2 Cy Young's in the span of 3 years (2004 and 2006), won the Pitching Triple Crown in 2006 (lowest ERA in MLB, most K's in MLB and tied for most wins in MLB). He won the Cy Young both years unanimously and was only the 5th pitcher in history to win multiple Cy Young's unanimously (the other four were Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez and Sandy Koufax). If he had done this with the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers, he'd be a HOF'er.

Dude got robbed of the 05 Cy Young.

I just looked up that year. Looks like he led the league in K's and was 2nd in ERA but finished 3rd in AL Cy Young voting behind Bartolo Colon (Angels) and Mariano Rivera (Yankees). The Twins weren't great that year and apparently his winning percentage was the reason he fell in the voting. Again, he's in the HOF if the prime of his career was played on the East or West coast.

 

[SupremeNachos]

So, I decided to go back in time a bit and look up Santana's stats. Santana won 2 Cy Young's in the span of 3 years (2004 and 2006), won the Pitching Triple Crown in 2006 (lowest ERA in MLB, most K's in MLB and tied for most wins in MLB). He won the Cy Young both years unanimously and was only the 5th pitcher in history to win multiple Cy Young's unanimously (the other four were Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez and Sandy Koufax). If he had done this with the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers, he'd be a HOF'er.



I just looked up that year. Looks like he led the league in K's and was 2nd in ERA but finished 3rd in AL Cy Young voting behind Bartolo Colon (Angels) and Mariano Rivera (Yankees). The Twins weren't great that year and apparently his winning percentage was the reason he fell in the voting. Again, he's in the HOF if the prime of his career was played on the East or West coast.

Have to disagree with this part. Without all his injuries after he was traded he was making a great case to be inducted. But with just 139 wins and less than 2k strikeouts not even being on a marquee team like the Yankees would have put him in. If he would have won the 05 Cy and got around 250-60 wins and at least 2500ks I would say he would be in (maybe not a first ballot).

 

[57special]

Agree 100%. Hell, Kaat has over twice as many wins(283), and he can't get a sniff at the Hall. 139 wins simply doesn't get it done.

 

[Engebretson]

I hear the longevity and Wins argument a lot and I just don’t get it. Blyleven gets in because he was able to avoid severe injuries and surgeries and pitch for 20+ years while not accomplishing nearly as much as Santana did within a much shorter span? Don’t get me wrong, Blyleven deserves to be in too, but I just don’t buy the argument that Santana doesn’t get in because he wasn’t able to stay healthy enough to play into the latter part of his career. The guy was the best pitcher in baseball for several years until his body gave up.

 

[puckMAN]

United trade Christian Ramirez to LAFC for up to 1 million in General Allocation money.

 

[SupremeNachos]

I hear the longevity and Wins argument a lot and I just don’t get it. Blyleven gets in because he was able to avoid severe injuries and surgeries and pitch for 20+ years while not accomplishing nearly as much as Santana did within a much shorter span? Don’t get me wrong, Blyleven deserves to be in too, but I just don’t buy the argument that Santana doesn’t get in because he wasn’t able to stay healthy enough to play into the latter part of his career. The guy was the best pitcher in baseball for several years until his body gave up.

Koufax is someone that I think of that had a similar type of career as Johan. A few big differences are an extra Cy and a MVP and postseason success.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Wins are overrated.

 

[Wild11MN]

Wins are overrated.

Yup. DeGrom has possibly been the best pitcher in baseball this year. Currently leads the majors in ERA. He's 5-7.

 

[Victorious Secret]

Koufax is someone that I think of that had a similar type of career as Johan. A few big differences are an extra Cy and a MVP and postseason success.

A lot of their metrics are similar, as well. But, that's being on a big coastal team and somehow becoming a near mythological figure.

 

[57special]

Wins are overrated.

Maybe so. Tell that to the HOF, though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Maybe so. Tell that to the HOF, though.

It'll change in the semi-near future. All of the younger baseball writers nowadays are analytics guys (pretty much have to be).

 

[Wabit]

Koufax is someone that I think of that had a similar type of career as Johan. A few big differences are an extra Cy and a MVP and postseason success.

Koufax's 4 no-hitters, 137 complete games, 40 shutouts, 2 WS MVPs, 3 WS rings, his best 5 year span of ERA was a .195, set multiple records for a lefty pitcher... He also was forced to retired at the top of his game due to a bum elbow. Koufax was on Hasek's level of greatness.

Santana was borderline great for a 5 year span, but that's a short time frame, and he doesn't have the post-season track record to be considered for the HoF. The closest active comparable I can think of would be if Kershaw was to retire at the end of the season. He has better overall stats than Santana, but doesn't belong in the HoF either.

 

[Wild11MN]

Neck surgery for Easton. Let the offensive line panic begin.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

Neck surgery for Easton. Let the offensive line panic begin.

Hopefully the talk of Collins looking good in camp carries over to the real season.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Neck surgery for Easton. Let the offensive line panic begin.

You mean it hadn't started yet? Wonder how fast Berger could get back to playing weight

Hopefully the talk of Collins looking good in camp carries over to the real season.

The Collins news is encouraging but for a team that has to go through defensive interiors that include Donald, Cox and Suh, having an interior OL this weak does not bode well.

 

[57special]

Year after year the Viking fail to properly address their offensive line, and it always seems to come up and bite them.

 

[Wabit]

Packers might have something in thier 5th rounder: Marquez Valdes-Scantling. The kid could be a real beast as a 6'4" WR that runs a 4.37 40. He had some drops in college, so he dropped in the draft.

His speed + Rodgers arm could lead to some big fantasy points days for him. He's worth keeping an eye on for the rest of the preseason to see if he could be a worth a late pick (depending on the league), or as a potential injury/waivers pickup.

 

[Wild11MN]

Packers might have something in thier 5th rounder: Marquez Valdes-Scantling. The kid could be a real beast as a 6'4" WR that runs a 4.37 40. He had some drops in college, so he dropped in the draft.

His speed + Rodgers arm could lead to some big fantasy points days for him. He's worth keeping an eye on for the rest of the preseason to see if he could be a worth a late pick (depending on the league), or as a potential injury/waivers pickup.

He won't even be their third WR, though, right? He'd still be behind Allison I assume so I'm not sure how much playing time he would see. Talking strictly for this year.

 

[Wabit]

He won't even be their third WR, though, right? He'd still be behind Allison I assume so I'm not sure how much playing time he would see. Talking strictly for this year.

Allison hasn't really done anything to be secure in the 3WR spot: 35 rec, 455 yds, 2 TD, in 25 games (limited duty). He just has the most tenure is why he's in he's listed where he is. Really whomever Rodgers likes/trusts the most will likely end up as the 3/4 WRs. He's still a project and I wouldn't have him as a week 1 starter in my fantasy team, but come midseason there could be someone worth having.

His speed/size is something the Packers haven't had to help open up the middle of the field. So that should get him into the lineup for at least a chance to make a name for himself. Plus GB seems to lose a WR within the first 3 weeks of the season on a yearly basis...

 

[tomgilbertfan]

Vikes haven’t had a QB that can throw as hard as Cousins since Favre.

 

[TaLoN]

Nice anticipation and accuracy. That's more of what Keenum was missing as well.

That 28 yarder to Diggs, Keenum would have never thrown because he couldn't hit that tight of a window, thus would have checked down.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

 

[Wild11MN]

^Heck of a throw.

Liked what I saw from Cousins last night. The fact he had 13 fumbles last year is slightly alarming. Washington's o-line was terrible because of injuries I believe last year, but it's hard to believe there will be much of an upgrade, if any, from what he had last year.

 

[Wabit]

Preseason NFL games are brutal to watch, not that preseason NHL games are much better.

 

[TaLoN]

Preseason NFL games are brutal to watch, not that preseason NHL games are much better.

NHL preseason is better than NFL preaseason usually.

The NFL preseason only has 1 week of any REAL value... the 3rd week of preseason when the starters play the entire first half and possibly into the 3rd quarter. The rest of it? Worthless to fans for the most part.

Preseason hockey usually has some actual entertainment for fans for a couple games at least.