OT: Non-Hockey Sports Thread IX - Let's Go Bowling! (Two-Minute Tommy Edition)

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BigT2002

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Football is not a sport where contracts are burdens. Kirk is owed 21M next year which is bottom end money for a veteran starter, he could easily be traded (he won’t be traded if Speilman is the GM). Barr is inexpensive to cut after this season. If Cook drops off we can cut him with minimal damage after 2022 (he should still be good after that though).

We had a Super Bowl roster 2015/2016-19. We never got to see Teddy take the next step and Speilman panicked by trading for Bradford. He should’ve rolled with Shaun Hill and we would’ve finished around 10-15 in the draft. Who knows if we would’ve gotten Mahomes/Watson or Trubisky/Kizer. Regardless having the QB on the rookie QB deal would not have only allowed us to keep the players that needed raises but also add a quality O lineman and corner. I don’t blame Speilman for signing Kirk because we needed a QB and he was the best available.

It is near impossible to win a super bowl without drafting a franchise QB. You compete when they are on their rookie contract supported by a strong team and as they develop they become strong enough to make up for roster deficiencies.

Pretty fair. However, while recently the "rookie QB" thing is true, that hasn't always been the case. We had quite the stretch where it wasn't a Rookie deal QB taking you to the Promise Land. The issue always lies in trenches. The O-Line has been completely neglected and was serviced for a large portion of the latter half of the 2010 decade by very inferior linemen who were not even going to be 2nd on their former team's depth charts the next season if they were to resign. Then the ones who were serviceable, they ended up always getting hurt or just flat out missed the entire season. It is why I have always felt Zimmer's plan was to go the Ravens style and just build a completely elite defensive core from the Top-Down and keep the games at like 21-13 or 13-9 type games. The issue with that, is while the Defense was pretty amazing during that last NFC Championship Game run -- the offense completely fell off the wagon. Same with the many early exits because the offense squandered chances.

I think they knew the window was closing on keeping the elite defense together and if they didn't act now, that window would close and it would be another 5 year cycle of getting players up to the level where they were playing Zimmer Defense. In the end, the signing probably hurt their ability to keep at least 1 veteran DB on the team and make a push to get another Tackle or Guard to keep whoever was QB'ing upright.
 

fentonsbrainchild

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Pretty fair. However, while recently the "rookie QB" thing is true, that hasn't always been the case. We had quite the stretch where it wasn't a Rookie deal QB taking you to the Promise Land. The issue always lies in trenches. The O-Line has been completely neglected and was serviced for a large portion of the latter half of the 2010 decade by very inferior linemen who were not even going to be 2nd on their former team's depth charts the next season if they were to resign. Then the ones who were serviceable, they ended up always getting hurt or just flat out missed the entire season. It is why I have always felt Zimmer's plan was to go the Ravens style and just build a completely elite defensive core from the Top-Down and keep the games at like 21-13 or 13-9 type games. The issue with that, is while the Defense was pretty amazing during that last NFC Championship Game run -- the offense completely fell off the wagon. Same with the many early exits because the offense squandered chances.

I think they knew the window was closing on keeping the elite defense together and if they didn't act now, that window would close and it would be another 5 year cycle of getting players up to the level where they were playing Zimmer Defense. In the end, the signing probably hurt their ability to keep at least 1 veteran DB on the team and make a push to get another Tackle or Guard to keep whoever was QB'ing upright.
Rookie deals have been much smaller percentage of the cap this past decade which is why it has started to be the case more recently
 
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Digitalbooya

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Is it really back on track if you're following up a NFC Championship appearance? Seems very similar to the same track.
Back on track with putting up 30+ points per game and winning. Tampa's defense rattled the offense, but they are back on track after a bad loss.
Too bad it looked like Daddy Brady owned ya and you'll have to go through them for the SB ;)
Haha, yeah... It was Brady... Sure... lol.
 

BigT2002

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Rookie deals have been much smaller percentage of the cap this past decade which is why it has started to be the case more recently

No doubt -- with how inflated the contracts are getting in comparison to the Salary Cap, you gotta wonder if it'll be its own little "bubble" and burst because certain players (for ego or worse) lose their minds about pay difference. QB play in the NFL has certainly gotten a lot better it seems. Doesn't feel like it is just like "3 elite, 4 Superstar, 5 great, then the pack" -- You have soooo many good QBs this year.
 

HotDish

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That gopher football game...
 

Yeolo

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It should be made a rule in the NFL that one contract can't take anymore than X% of a team's entire salary cap and make that number reasonable. Deflate the backlash within the PA by increasing the cap overall slightly.

Vikings cap situation is like a hilarious sports meme of the American economy and risks of a totally uncontrolled market.

What's really hilarious is we are going to see certain QB's like potentially Patrick Mahomes take the Brady approach and take less and enjoy a more complete team and laugh at the entire league while controlling the NFL playoffs for the next decade. (at least)

// Edit

Another solution could be creating two salary caps. A quarterback salary cap and the rest of the team's salary cap.

But I guess that's what Americans call CAAAMUE-NIZIM.

While I'm at it. Screw the NBA too.

The NBA ratings flailing in my uneducated opinion is probably in part due to the fact that the NBA is no longer fun for team's that aren't in a giant market on the coast.

Literally every team in the middle of America has to ultimately be okay with being a farm team.

How depressing it is watching your team's star players that you watched get drafted leave the team after a few years of developing every.single.time.

NBA needs to allow teams that draft a player to be able to resign that player at a MUCH higher rate than a team that did not draft that player, and that extra amount that players gets SHOULD NOT count against the regular salary cap.
I think there is something like this already but it needs to be expanded. They can put a two or three player cap so each team can do this with two or three players at a time.

NBA has to figure this out or ten years from now there aren't even going to be as many teams.
 
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fentonsbrainchild

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@Yeolo players will always have the most power in the NBA. 14 roster spots and about 8 players in the world that can be the best player on a championship team.

It’s too late at night to spend the amount of time needed to dissect everything that’s wrong with your football take. Quarterbacks are by and large underpaid
 

Yeolo

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@Yeolo players will always have the most power in the NBA. 14 roster spots and about 8 players in the world that can be the best player on a championship team.

It’s too late at night to spend the amount of time needed to dissect everything that’s wrong with your football take. Quarterbacks are by and large underpaid

Respectfully,

Are we okay with the majority of NBA franchises serving as farm systems? Not too long ago this wasn't a major issue.
--
And as far as football goes then what is the solution? Would a separate QB salary cap for each team not solve that problem?

If you don't understand that the current trend continuing every single season is a problem then this is a pointless discussion, and feel free to just not respond and just disengage from it.
 

fentonsbrainchild

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Respectfully,

Are we okay with the majority of NBA franchises serving as farm systems? Not too long ago this wasn't a major issue.
--
And as far as football goes then what is the solution? Would a separate QB salary cap for each team not solve that problem?

If you don't understand that the current trend continuing every single season is a problem then this is a pointless discussion, and feel free to just not respond and just disengage from it.
That’s just plain false. Lew Alcindor left the Bucks for the Lakers in the 1970s. As did Shaq in the 90s. As far as not being able to win titles in a small market the Spurs are #26 in market size and have three title in the last 15 years. The Cavs are #23 and won in 2016. Thunder and Bucks are bottom 5 and have had championship level teams in the past ten years.

Pro sports are one of the only places where if you are the top of your profession coming out of college but you don’t get to choose where to go. Often you go to the worst organizations and as is the case with the NBA, NHL, and NFL you are under the teams control for 6-8 years. Imagine you graduate from a top law school and you had to sign with one of the worst law firms in the country. I had no issue with LeBron leaving a terrible owner in Dan Gilbert and choosing good management under Pat Riley in Miami. Sam Presti wasn’t able to confront Russell Westbrook’s playing style and it drove Kevin Durant away. While these stars owe nothing to their first organization, they probably would have stayed an additional contract if their management was competent.

Having a separate QB cap sounds good but would never be put in place due to cheap ass billionaire owners. The Vikings signed a free agent QB and that usually never works. You gotta draft a QB if you want to compete year in and year out for a Super Bowl.
 

guitarhunterdude

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Jan 2, 2017
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It should be made a rule in the NFL that one contract can't take anymore than X% of a team's entire salary cap and make that number reasonable. Deflate the backlash within the PA by increasing the cap overall slightly.

Vikings cap situation is like a hilarious sports meme of the American economy and risks of a totally uncontrolled market.

What's really hilarious is we are going to see certain QB's like potentially Patrick Mahomes take the Brady approach and take less and enjoy a more complete team and laugh at the entire league while controlling the NFL playoffs for the next decade. (at least)

// Edit

Another solution could be creating two salary caps. A quarterback salary cap and the rest of the team's salary cap.

But I guess that's what Americans call CAAAMUE-NIZIM.

While I'm at it. Screw the NBA too.

The NBA ratings flailing in my uneducated opinion is probably in part due to the fact that the NBA is no longer fun for team's that aren't in a giant market on the coast.

Literally every team in the middle of America has to ultimately be okay with being a farm team.

How depressing it is watching your team's star players that you watched get drafted leave the team after a few years of developing every.single.time.

NBA needs to allow teams that draft a player to be able to resign that player at a MUCH higher rate than a team that did not draft that player, and that extra amount that players gets SHOULD NOT count against the regular salary cap.
I think there is something like this already but it needs to be expanded. They can put a two or three player cap so each team can do this with two or three players at a time.

NBA has to figure this out or ten years from now there aren't even going to be as many teams.
The NBA has never had parity and never will. Impossible to achieve in a sport where one player has such an outsized impact. And even then, the shitty teams in flyover country still get control over those players until their RFA contracts are up.

And I didn't even bring up the Spurs of 2000-2015.
 
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57special

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The result hurts both teams.

Anyone else think that Thielen was being way too chatty with Rogers during a delay in the game? Him going to GB would be a nightmare.
 

Dee Oh Cee

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Thankfully it didn't last extremely long and it's turned into a beautiful day there. Conditions are soft and scoring is high. Tiger with a bogey free 68. Game on.
 

Minnesnota

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Thankfully it didn't last extremely long and it's turned into a beautiful day there. Conditions are soft and scoring is high. Tiger with a bogey free 68. Game on.
Yea he looked good out there. Few mishaps and wasn't able to score on hole 2 but he kept the train on the tracks and tallied points throughout. If he plays like that all weekend we're in for a real treat.
 
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Yeolo

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I just don't know where else to post this.

I'm not big into the NBA due to the Timberwolves Timberwolfing at the same time the Wild are Wilin'.

Giannis (sp?) is already saying we'll see about leaving Milwaukee.

As much as I hate Wisconsin and love watching sports failures in that state THIS is why ratings are tanking harder in the NBA even in comparison to other sport rating drops.

Fans are sick of having their teams operate as glorified farm systems for major market teams. Its not because of social issues, its not because of how the game is played, it's because only 5 teams even really matter in the long run.
 
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57special

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I'm with you, Yeolo. I fully support the NBA player's rights about playing where they want within the structure of their agreement with the league, but I also support my right to not watch.

Did anyone see Rahm's duffed fairway shot, then the attempt to slay the tree on the next shot? Looked like me.
 

Digitalbooya

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I just don't know where else to post this.

I'm not big into the NBA due to the Timberwolves Timberwolfing at the same time the Wild are Wilin'.

Giannis (sp?) is already saying we'll see about leaving Milwaukee.

As much as I hate Wisconsin and love watching sports failures in that state THIS is why ratings are tanking harder in the NBA even in comparison to other sport rating drops.

Fans are sick of having their teams operate as glorified farm systems for major market teams. Its not because of social issues, its not because of how the game is played, it's because only 5 teams even really matter in the long run.
Giannis playing for a small market Milwaukee team is the only reason I watch the NBA. The NBA just isn’t fun to watch as a whole. Same with the MLB and their soft cap system. March Madness is fun because of all the upsets. You rarely see that in the NBA or MLB.
 

57special

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The Raptors and the Bucks are a fun watch. Toronto is a small market in terms of the NBA, though i would hardly call it a small market. Of course, Leonard couldn't wait to leave there and go to LA. I suspect we'll see Giannis in LA, NY or Miami soon.
 
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