Player Discussion No love for Caleb Jones

[KlefDown]

IMO whatever he worked on in the offseason did more damage than good. Looks like he focused on jumping up into the play to take that next step into becoming a top 4 Dman when maybe he should have worked on the defensive side to become a NHL regular first.

Yeah it seems like he's trying to take the next step and that has resulted in him taking a step back. He needs a steady partner to play with and that's something we cannot give him because we have non

 

[Paralyzer008]

To me the biggest difference is Caleb Jones can get you out of your zone and William Lagesson can't very much.

Even if Lagesson is steadier in his own zone than Jones, the upside Jones brings is why I'd be playing him over Lagesson to develop him further. Lagesson is kind of what he is at this point - a PK guy who is a 6/7 who you can plug in and be relatively okay with trusting him defensively. Jones has that potential upside for more.

 

[voxel]

To me the biggest difference is Caleb Jones can get you out of your zone and William Lagesson can't very much.

Even if Lagesson is steadier in his own zone than Jones, the upside Jones brings is why I'd be playing him over Lagesson to develop him further. Lagesson is kind of what he is at this point - a PK guy who is a 6/7 who you can plug in and be relatively okay with trusting him defensively. Jones has that potential upside for more.

Lagesson is decent at the breakout... not elite. His skating is just borderline for the NHL whereas Jones' is above average.

Jones in the NHL is kinda like Jones in the AHL in early on. Super high risk plays that he got burned on. He needs to cut the risky plays out.

 

[Aerchon]

To me the biggest difference is Caleb Jones can get you out of your zone and William Lagesson can't very much.

Even if Lagesson is steadier in his own zone than Jones, the upside Jones brings is why I'd be playing him over Lagesson to develop him further. Lagesson is kind of what he is at this point - a PK guy who is a 6/7 who you can plug in and be relatively okay with trusting him defensively. Jones has that potential upside for more.

Laggesson is billed as a shutdown guy, because he is. But. He is a far better puck mover than being credited. He isn't great at it but it absolutely is being underrated.

Same league this year. Which is Laggesson and which is Bouchard.

14gp 3g 9a 12p
23gp 6g 11a 17p

I've had a few cases of saw him good and while I don't have big expectations I think he "could" have a much better nhl career than Jones. We need to see a lot more of Laggesson in the NHL before gifting a struggling Jones more ice time imo.

 

[harpoon]

Laggesson is billed as a shutdown guy, because he is. But. He is a far better puck mover than being credited. He isn't great at it but it absolutely is being underrated.

Same league this year. Which is Laggesson and which is Bouchard.

14gp 3g 9a 12p
23gp 6g 11a 17p

I've had a few cases of saw him good and while I don't have big expectations I think he "could" have a much better nhl career than Jones. We need to see a lot more of Laggesson in the NHL before gifting a struggling Jones more ice time imo.

Were you the guy who said Marincin was going to be a big stud? Hope not, cause I get the same gut feeling as you watching Lagesson play. He’s not the sexy draft pick. Doesn’t have the right last name. But in my limited viewings I quite like what I see. I hope we get to see more of him.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Laggesson is billed as a shutdown guy, because he is. But. He is a far better puck mover than being credited. He isn't great at it but it absolutely is being underrated.

Same league this year. Which is Laggesson and which is Bouchard.

14gp 3g 9a 12p
23gp 6g 11a 17p

I've had a few cases of saw him good and while I don't have big expectations I think he "could" have a much better nhl career than Jones. We need to see a lot more of Laggesson in the NHL before gifting a struggling Jones more ice time imo.

I don't think I saw that Larsson/Lagesson pairing get out of their own zone vs Ottawa, so I'm interested in how good he looks vs a good team. He didn't look too bad vs MTL from what I remember but didn't totally stand out.

Jones played two really good games in the bubble vs Chicago - in a series where our top 4 were garbage. Lagesson has played 3 games this season and Jones has played 7. I tend not to judge on short stints, and I still believe Jones has much higher upside but we'll see what happens.

I'll be the opposite of you on this one. Lagesson is 24 turning 25 and Jones is 23 - I feel like we know who Lagesson is shaping up to be vs Jones and that's why I want to play Jones more, but lots of season to go for either of us to be right.

 

[Aerchon]

I don't think I saw that Larsson/Lagesson pairing get out of their own zone vs Ottawa, so I'm interested in how good he looks vs a good team. He didn't look too bad vs MTL from what I remember but didn't totally stand out.

Jones played two really good games in the bubble vs Chicago - in a series where our top 4 were garbage. Lagesson has played 3 games this season and Jones has played 7. I tend not to judge on short stints, and I still believe Jones has much higher upside but we'll see what happens.

I'll be the opposite of you on this one. Lagesson is 24 turning 25 and Jones is 23 - I feel like we know who Lagesson is shaping up to be vs Jones and that's why I want to play Jones more, but lots of season to go for either of us to be right.

To each their own.

Both need more nhl time to see what we have but I think Laggesson currently deserves more time than Jones, in part because of the age you mention. He has been very patient by the looks waiting for his opportunity.

Jones has shown some pretty big highs and lows, currently low, while I thought Laggesson looked more gooder in his games this year. ;-)

 

[GMofOilers]

Not to many 4th round picks become top4 or even top 6 dmen.

Jones will be in a uphill battle all his career, the same can be said for Bear to be honest.

As our D gets better, players that arent as skilled will be pushed out.

Bouchard, Barrie, Nurse, Broberg where we going to have room for NHL tweeners in the top 4?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Jones is a #7/8 defender who was trying to be forced into playing as a #4. I have time for him as an extra skater and with work he could be a solid bottom pairing guy

 

[Stoneman89]

Lagesson is decent at the breakout... not elite. His skating is just borderline for the NHL whereas Jones' is above average.

Jones in the NHL is kinda like Jones in the AHL in early on. Super high risk plays that he got burned on. He needs to cut the risky plays out.

I think one of the big things for development is not taking risky plays, but knowing and sensing when to do them. He'll figure it out, and I sure hope it's with us.

 

[AM]

Jones, Lagesson, Bear, Bouchard, the guy we got from Chicago, it’s just good to have competition.

 

[Aceboogie]

Laggesson is billed as a shutdown guy, because he is. But. He is a far better puck mover than being credited. He isn't great at it but it absolutely is being underrated.

Same league this year. Which is Laggesson and which is Bouchard.

14gp 3g 9a 12p
23gp 6g 11a 17p

I've had a few cases of saw him good and while I don't have big expectations I think he "could" have a much better nhl career than Jones. We need to see a lot more of Laggesson in the NHL before gifting a struggling Jones more ice time imo.

I think both should be getting regular ice time and Russell needs to be in the press box. Both are solid bottom pairing D and the same (or better) ability than Russell

It's hard to get good development if they are playing games sporadically. They should both be getting regular time so we can see what we have with them

Its gunna suck if we get to the end of the year and each guy only played 20 games and are still unknowns and now we have to make a decision on who to expose in the ED with incomplete evaluations

 

[Paralyzer008]

Caleb Jones:

He didn't block a shot vs Matthews and now he's probably done as an Oiler.

Getting the sense this will be the Petry situation to a lesser degree when either he's waived or traded or let go to Seattle. He'll make us look bad somewhere else.

He's as good as gone with Tippett.

 

[gordonhught]

Caleb Jones:

He didn't block a shot vs Matthews and now he's probably done as an Oiler.

Getting the sense this will be the Petry situation to a lesser degree when either he's waived or traded or let go to Seattle. He'll make us look bad somewhere else.

He's as good as gone with Tippett.

I don’t know, seems Jones got outplayed by other d men

he still might be a good pro, but how much time does he get to refine his game in actual games if others are playing better than him

you can’t waive him

can you play him ahead of lagesson because he might be better than lagesson after another 29 games? Not sure the oilers can take that route

having said that, I am all for him becoming a regular d man on this team, I am not sure how that happens at this point

 

[voxel]

Caleb Jones:

He didn't block a shot vs Matthews and now he's probably done as an Oiler.

Getting the sense this will be the Petry situation to a lesser degree when either he's waived or traded or let go to Seattle. He'll make us look bad somewhere else.

He's as good as gone with Tippett.

I think you overrate Jones’s based on his flashiness. He made a tons of brainfarts in the AHL and I’m seeing them again the NHL. Petry as I recall was never that sloppy in the AHL but that’s a long time ago. J.Schultz was basically AHL MVP when he was down there. Crushed the league. Lagesson was just a steady eddy compared to Jones. I was never worried about a mistake. I was worried about his acceleration (foot speed) though.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I think you overrate Jones’s based on his flashiness. He made a tons of brainfarts in the AHL and I’m seeing them again the NHL. Petry as I recall was never that sloppy in the AHL but that’s a long time ago. J.Schultz was basically AHL MVP when he was down there. Crushed the league. Lagesson was just a steady eddy compared to Jones. I was never worried about a mistake. I was worried about his acceleration (foot speed) though.

I think HF is overrating Lagesson, and I guess we'll see if that is correct in the next stretch of games.

I think Lagesson is steady in his own zone but he can't do much outside of it - those types of players always have a limited ceiling. To me he's a no.7 who you can safely plug in and not feel bad.

Jones meanwhile can move the puck and has shown longer flashes of being something much more and it took us 7 games to say he's done, not to mention the non-block on Matthews is one of the only actual mistakes I can think of him making in those seven games. We'll let Larsson and Russell make 40 mistakes and still they'll get games.

Tippett isn't a big fan of him - even though Jones was great in the bubble, we had writers saying Broberg passed him on the depth chart. I just think it's amazing that it took seven games for him to go from a guy we pencilled as a top 4 D-man to being out.

At the very least, Koekkoek's play has slipped enough that there's no way I can say Jones should sit for him. We have enough guys who can play PK that Koekkoek isn't necessary.

 

[Spawn]

I don’t know, seems Jones got outplayed by other d men

he still might be a good pro, but how much time does he get to refine his game in actual games if others are playing better than him

you can’t waive him

can you play him ahead of lagesson because he might be better than lagesson after another 29 games? Not sure the oilers can take that route

having said that, I am all for him becoming a regular d man on this team, I am not sure how that happens at this point

It's not like Koekkoek has been any good since his first week here. Tippett doesn't seem to have any qualms with continuing to throw him back into games.

 

[Samus44]

Caleb Jones:

He didn't block a shot vs Matthews and now he's probably done as an Oiler.

Getting the sense this will be the Petry situation to a lesser degree when either he's waived or traded or let go to Seattle. He'll make us look bad somewhere else.

He's as good as gone with Tippett.

Tippett isn't like that and Jones has failed to get in the lane on the PK numerous times. He'll get another shot. Tippets doing the player good by teaching him the important lessons through accountability and by not letting things compound. They've got two veterans who can play and another young guy in Lagesson who's been solid and deserves a chance himself. I don't see an issue, I see a normal young player learning normal lessons. This is normal. Injuries will unfortunately be likely to occur and Jones will get a chance to prove he's learned some lessons. Tippett isn't your average HF poster he won't turn on his player(s) after 7 games in a year with no preseason, let alone a 23 year old guy in his first full season.

 

[gordonhught]

It's not like Koekkoek has been any good since his first week here. Tippett doesn't seem to have any qualms with continuing to throw him back into games.

4k played better than Jones early in the season - 4K also plays well with Bouchard (covering for him) - I am not sure Jones can cover for Bouchard

 

[gordonhught]

It's not like Koekkoek has been any good since his first week here. Tippett doesn't seem to have any qualms with continuing to throw him back into games.

havign said that I think Jones gets some more games when the schedule heats up again

 

[TheNumber4]

On Jones v Laggesson. It seems the narrative is Jones is more skilled, has more upside etc etc. Well he sure does try to make more plays than Lagesson.... but he sucks at it. He nearly never executed an attempted high skill play. Attempts to skate puck in, gets stripped. Attempts to outlet pass, missed by a foot. Lagesson would probably miss those attempts too but atleast he doesn’t try em and is staying within his abilities. Just brings a simple, steady game. I’m not a fan of Jones so if we lose him, I’m good.

 

[ImmuneEH]

I'm beginning to wonder if these guys are just placeholders until Samorukov and Broberg arrive.

Really hoping Broberg is given another year of development in the AHL or something, and that Samorukov gets a long look next year. Samorukov brings the positives of Lagesson while being more dynamic and a better skater. I think he'd mesh well with one of our offensive D.

 

[AM]

Dude earned $14.7 million during his playing career, so I would say that probably exponentially increases anyone's dating options.

Maybe he’s a nice guy.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think HF is overrating Lagesson, and I guess we'll see if that is correct in the next stretch of games.

I think Lagesson is steady in his own zone but he can't do much outside of it - those types of players always have a limited ceiling. To me he's a no.7 who you can safely plug in and not feel bad.

Jones meanwhile can move the puck and has shown longer flashes of being something much more and it took us 7 games to say he's done, not to mention the non-block on Matthews is one of the only actual mistakes I can think of him making in those seven games. We'll let Larsson and Russell make 40 mistakes and still they'll get games.

Tippett isn't a big fan of him - even though Jones was great in the bubble, we had writers saying Broberg passed him on the depth chart. I just think it's amazing that it took seven games for him to go from a guy we pencilled as a top 4 D-man to being out.

At the very least, Koekkoek's play has slipped enough that there's no way I can say Jones should sit for him. We have enough guys who can play PK that Koekkoek isn't necessary.

I wouldn't panic over the current situation. And I wouldn't personally rush to judgement on perceiving Tippett not being a big 'fan' of Caleb Jones. The coach's priority is to ice the best team to win and the Larssen Lagesson pairing has clicked in contributing solid minutes together as this team stabilized with stringing some wins together. Finding this stability is critical in a shortened schedule and Lagesson has earned a place in the lineup ... until he doesn't. As to Tippett and Jones, the coach trusted the young defenseman for 43 NHL games last year so he obviously has some time for him. As fans, we only see in game performance and do not have access to practises and off ice work that goes into becoming and maintaining a roster spot on an NHL team.

No NHL job is ever anointed. It is earned and kept through hard work, commitment and smart play. Unfortunately Jones stumbled early with inconsistent decision making and presumably some small effort critiques like not getting in lanes to block shots. Jones will get another shot at some point and hopefully he will settle his game if he wants to stay there. Flashes of ability vs consistency is what separates fringe NHL players from everyday ones.

 

[joestevens29]

On Jones v Laggesson. It seems the narrative is Jones is more skilled, has more upside etc etc. Well he sure does try to make more plays than Lagesson.... but he sucks at it. He nearly never executed an attempted high skill play. Attempts to skate puck in, gets stripped. Attempts to outlet pass, missed by a foot. Lagesson would probably miss those attempts too but atleast he doesn’t try em and is staying within his abilities. Just brings a simple, steady game. I’m not a fan of Jones so if we lose him, I’m good.

Neilsen mentioned this morning that Tippett has talked about it twice with Jones. He needed to be better on PK. Two times he wasn't willing to get in front of the puck on the PK and it resulted in goals.

So if Jones isn't going to be solid on the PK then he has to beat Bouchard for a spot. Don't for see too many games where Barrie, Jones and Bouchard are all dressed as they don't PK. Jones is really going to have to wait for a chance or if he does get one really make the most of it.

It sucks, but we simply don't have the time to just give guys 5+ games to figure things out this year. Too many others knocking on the door behind you.