Player Discussion No love for Caleb Jones

[Soundwave]

Going from an incredibly sheltered number 5/6 to a top 4 would shock me.

There's nothing really that shocking ... a guy who's only played 17 games in the NHL prior to last season should be sheltered, you throw the term "sheltered" around like it should be an insult ... that's how normal NHL teams develop their d-men, lol.

First 80 games at least a kid should be sheltered on your 5/6 if at all possible unless they are some Drew Doughty like horse of a d-man.

Just because that's where you start has no bearing on how high up the lineup you can go, that's dependant on talent/skillset and a willingness to learn and improve.

Jones has some talent, if he wants to put in the work I don't really see anything stopping him from being a no.4, no.3, or even no.2 really. He is better than Petry at the same age and I think most people would say Petry is a no.2/3 D.

Now whether he improves to that higher degree ... that's on him and a lot of hard work and willingness to learn the right way from mistakes. Some players can hack that, others can't. There's no way of really knowing that with a player.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

There's nothing really that shocking ... a guy who's only played 17 games in the NHL prior to last season should be sheltered, you throw the term "sheltered" around like it should be an insult ... that's how normal NHL teams develop their d-men, lol.

First 80 games at least a kid should be sheltered on your 5/6 if at all possible unless they are some Drew Doughty like horse of a d-man.

Just because that's where you start has no bearing on how high up the lineup you can go, that's dependant on talent/skillset and a willingness to learn and improve.

Jones has some talent, if he wants to put in the work I don't really see anything stopping him from being a no.4, no.3, or even no.2 really. He is better than Petry at the same age and I think most people would say Petry is a no.2/3 D.

Now whether he improves to that higher degree ... that's on him and a lot of hard work and willingness to learn the right way from mistakes. Some players can hack that, others can't. There's no way of really knowing that with a player.

This is a long post for you trying to change my definition and feeling.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

As a fan, you have to hope for the best. My biased eye test told me that he wasn't ready for a top 4 spot, but I hope that he proves me wrong. On a decent team, he'd still be playing bottom pairing to start the season

 

[oobga]

Imagine many are just not wanting to project too much pressure on the kid. So tired of seeing us push young players higher up the lineup than they should be.

He has potential to be a solid top 4 D, but we could end up running him into the ground this coming season.

 

[Soundwave]

I would protect him in the expansion draft above Klefbom if he continues to improve next season, I'll put it that way.

 

[Bangers]

I certainly hope you're right. But HOPE usually isn't a very good strategy.

Pun intentional?

 

[LTIR]

I think he has a considerably higher roof than Matt Benning. He's more skilled and has far fewer brain farts.

He's better at age 23 than Jeff Petry was at the same age for the Oilers. Now how far he goes is up to him, but I think there's definitely a good player there if he wants to put in the work.

The Oilers completely dominated the Hawks when he was on the ice in the play-in series outshooting them something like 24-5.

Is that the game where he had 9mins TOI , 14mins or where he was a healthy scratch?
The best thing about Jones is his contract. 2nd his last name. Dime a dozen player otherwise ala Marincin, Davidson, Benning etc.

When the coach plays a damaged Klefbom 10mins more per night you know where he stands currently.

Serviceable bottom pairing Dman who can play both sides at league minimum.

He is not Klefbom replacement or a top4 Dman unless he takes 2 or 3 steps up.

 

[BudBundy]

There are things to like about Jones. Very good skating, an NHL frame, and flashes of skill are there. Obviously good bloodlines, LOL. The fact remains he is highly unproven and, at least to my eye, he wilted quite a bit when asked to play against tougher competition. That is normal for a rookie, so that’s not a condemnation. How much more will he improve as he settles in? His brain will determine that, so we’ll see. I guess the short term question is: can Caleb handle a bigger role and be better than Klefbom-on-one-shoulder?

 

[Broberg Speed]

This is nonsensical about protecting 23 year old Caleb Jones like a special little flower. He finished the hockey USA program as a intense two-way player not as an offensive power play specialist. He took the western hockey league route and excelled in a league known for producing hard nosed no-nonsense defensemen then put in 135 AHL games including playoffs. He has 60 NHL regular season games under his belt, he is not a rookie and shouldn't be treated as such. Jones was more than effective when he finally got into play-in action. He signed that beautiful contract for a reason and this was before the economic turmoil in the NHL... so he could force an opportunity THIS year and NEXT. The kid bet on himself, let him loose. Hooah

 

[yukoner88]

Is that the game where he had 9mins TOI , 14mins or where he was a healthy scratch?
The best thing about Jones is his contract. 2nd his last name. Dime a dozen player otherwise ala Marincin, Davidson, Benning etc.

When the coach plays a damaged Klefbom 10mins more per night you know where he stands currently.

Serviceable bottom pairing Dman who can play both sides at league minimum.

He is not Klefbom replacement or a top4 Dman unless he takes 2 or 3 steps up.

Dude it was pretty much a rookie season a 3rd pairing dman for Jones so of course he wasn't going to automatically thrust into top pairing assignments, even with Klefbom playing at less than 100% health. The entire organization was focused on not overwhelming and shell shocking Bear, Jones, and Legasson in a playoff environment to in the name of trying to maintain proper development for the younger half of the core, which played themselves into the line up.

Unless Jones completely shits the bed next season, Jones with the opportunity to grow into roles/assignments that are far and wide bigger than Marincin, Davidson or Benning were ever asked to take on. Our coaching staff has a very high opinion on Jones current game, and the potential he has in front of him yet.

 

[LTIR]

Dude it was pretty much a rookie season a 3rd pairing dman for Jones so of course he wasn't going to automatically thrust into top pairing assignments, even with Klefbom playing at less than 100% health. The entire organization was focused on not overwhelming and shell shocking Bear, Jones, and Legasson in a playoff environment to in the name of trying to maintain proper development for the younger half of the core, which played themselves into the line up.

Unless Jones completely shits the bed next season, Jones with the opportunity to grow into roles/assignments that are far and wide bigger than Marincin, Davidson or Benning were ever asked to take on. Our coaching staff has a very high opinion on Jones current game, and the potential he has in front of him yet.

Benning and Marincin were given great opportunities but we're just not up to task in top 4 roles. Jones did not look good in that role either but still has some potential.

I am hoping he solidifies himself as NHL regular this season. People expecting more are setting themselves up for disappointment. Would be great if he becomes a top 4 Dman or be anywhere close to Klefbom level but let's not hold our breath on it.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Benning and Marincin were given great opportunities but we're just not up to task in top 4 roles. Jones did not look good in that role either but still has some potential.

I am hoping he solidifies himself as NHL regular this season. People expecting more are setting themselves up for disappointment. Would be great if he becomes a top 4 Dman or be anywhere close to Klefbom level but let's not hold our breath on it.

Conversely you should prepare to eat crow if you continue misrepresenting Caleb Jones' past play and future potential as mediocre.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Talking about under-rated dman. I’m watching 1981 Edmonton vs Montreal . I remember watching Siltanen. What a skater

Risto Siltanen Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[Soundwave]

Is that the game where he had 9mins TOI , 14mins or where he was a healthy scratch?
The best thing about Jones is his contract. 2nd his last name. Dime a dozen player otherwise ala Marincin, Davidson, Benning etc.

When the coach plays a damaged Klefbom 10mins more per night you know where he stands currently.

Serviceable bottom pairing Dman who can play both sides at league minimum.

He is not Klefbom replacement or a top4 Dman unless he takes 2 or 3 steps up.

No that number is from his time on the ice total for the series, the Oilers completely dominated the Blackhawks when ever he was on the ice. Tippett made several bad calls in that play-in series, not playing Jones more may well have been one of his blunders.

Who the f*** is saying he needs to replace Klefbom tomorrow? Picking up the slack from Klefbom will be a shared responsibility spread out between Larsson, Nurse, Barrie, Russell, Bear, Jones, and Bouchard, it's not something that falls exclusively on the shoulders of one guy.

Working your way up from the 5/6 spot in your first 30+ game season as a d-man is HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK. You understand that right? Throwing a d-man with 17 games experience and expecting instant top 4 minutes is NOT how normal top end NHL organizations operate.

The Oilers have thought this way for years too (top 4 minutes straight away or get outta here!), no wonder they've developed dick all on their blue line for ages.

You know who else was a "dime a dozen" player at age 22? Jeff Petry. So was Andrej Sekera. Heck, Oscar Klefbom was nothing that special at age 22 either.

 

[LTIR]

No that number is from his time on the ice total for the series, the Oilers completely dominated the Blackhawks when ever he was on the ice. Tippett made several bad calls in that play-in series, not playing Jones more may well have been one of his blunders.

Who the f*** is saying he needs to replace Klefbom tomorrow?

Working your way up from the 5/6 spot in your first 30+ game season as a d-man is HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK. You understand that right? Throwing a d-man with 17 games experience and expecting instant top 4 minutes is NOT how it works 95% of the time.

The Oilers have thought this way for years too, no wonder they've developed dick all on their blue line for ages.

You know who else was a "dime a dozen" player at age 22? Jeff Petry. So was Andrej Sekera. Heck, Oscar Klefbom was nothing that special at age 22 either.

Petry was awesome from the get go. From his college days onwards he was touted to be someone just as good as Nurse /Bouchard. Jones doesn't come close to it.

Also, the Klefbom comment was a response to the poster who suggested keeping Jones and exposing Klefbom for expansion.

You should be responding to posters expecting great things from Jones as top 4 Dman and not me.

 

[Soundwave]

Petry was awesome from the get go. From his college days onwards he was touted to be someone just as good as Nurse /Bouchard. Jones doesn't come close to it.

Also, the Klefbom comment was a response to the poster who suggested keeping Jones and exposing Klefbom for expansion.

You should be responding to posters expecting great things from Jones as top 4 Dman and not me.

Jeff Petry couldn't even make the Oilers roster at the age Jones is (Jones was 22 for all of the regular season last year).

Petry's first full season was at age 23 where he had 1 goal and 4 assists, a -12 rating in 35 games.

What about that is "so awesome"?

Protecting Jones over Klefbom may absolutely be the more prudent thing to do going forward ... Klefbom's shoulder problems aren't magically going to go away as such it doesn't matter who he is better than when he can't even stay in the lineup and/or is one hit to the shoulder constantly away from having to go on IR.

If Jones wants to be a top 4 defender, that's on him. He has to the tools to do so, and many guys that have played in the Oilers top 4 (Klefbom, Sekera, Petry) were not much better or any better at all at the same age. He has solid I.Q. (I would say it's above Nurse and Bear at times), decent size, good skating, dangerous shot (doesn't shoot enough). If he wants to become a top 4 it's there for him, but some guys can't make that leap or don't want to put in the work to do so, lets see which side of the ledger Jones falls on.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

Talking about under-rated dman. I’m watching 1981 Edmonton vs Montreal . I remember watching Siltanen. What a skater

Risto Siltanen Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

He got to wear the three sweetest jerseys in NHL history during his chel tenure

 

[LTIR]

Jeff Petry couldn't even make the Oilers roster at the age Jones is (Jones was 22 for all of the regular season last year).

Petry's first full season was at age 23 where he had 1 goal and 4 assists, a -12 rating in 35 games.

What about that is "so awesome"?

Protecting Jones over Klefbom may absolutely be the more prudent thing to do going forward ... Klefbom's shoulder problems aren't magically going to go away as such it doesn't matter who he is better than when he can't even stay in the lineup and/or is one hit to the shoulder constantly away from having to go on IR.

Could it be because Petry went the university route and was looking pretty good down there at that age?

I was a big Petry fan from the get go and at Univ level he was very Pronger'ish.

He was a top prospect unlike Jones.

 

[Soundwave]

Could it be because Petry went the university route and was looking pretty good down there at that age?

I was a big Petry fan from the get go and at Univ level he was very Pronger'ish.

He was a top prospect unlike Jones.

Fact is at age 23 he was not really much better than Jones is at the same age at the NHL level.

Jones had a very good season in the AHL last year too. Quite frankly he was better or equal to Ethan Bear in Bakersfield. I don't care who is labelled a "top prospect" that often is simply just based on where a player is drafted.

Developing and protecting and sheltering a NHL D-Man when they are in their first 60-80 games of growth is what a normal NHL team does. Edmonton has tried to do the opposite and gotten burned for it multiple times.

 

[McDNicks17]

Fact is at age 23 he was not really much better than Jones is at the same age at the NHL level.

Jones had a very good season in the AHL last year too. Quite frankly he was better or equal to Ethan Bear in Bakersfield. I don't care who is labelled a "top prospect" that often is simply just based on where a player is drafted.

Developing and protecting and sheltering a NHL D-Man when they are in their first 60-80 games of growth is what a normal NHL team does. Edmonton has tried to do the opposite and gotten burned for it multiple times.

And you can list dozens of players that were better than him at that age that ended up out of the league.

Comparing him to players who massively improved doesn't mean he will too.

 

[LTIR]

Fact is at age 23 he was not really much better than Jones is at the same age at the NHL level.

Jones had a very good season in the AHL last year too. Quite frankly he was better or equal to Ethan Bear in Bakersfield. I don't care who is labelled a "top prospect" that often is simply just based on where a player is drafted.

Developing and protecting and sheltering a NHL D-Man when they are in their first 60-80 games of growth is what a normal NHL team does. Edmonton has tried to do the opposite and gotten burned for it multiple times.

He was simply not as established because he was busy being one of the best Dmen in college. As if HFOil wasn't drooling over him the whole time.
His 2nd NHL season he led all the Oilers D in points with 25 playing top 4 minutes .
It was pretty much a toss up between Jones and Lagesson last year and could very well be the same next season.

 

[Soundwave]

And you can list dozens of players that were better than him at that age that ended up out of the league.

Comparing him to players who massively improved doesn't mean he will too.

Based on the skill set I see from Jones, I don't see any reason why he can't improve.

For example, his shot his quite dangerous, I saw NHL goalies have a lot of problems corralling his shot. He's dangerous when he activates off the rush too.

When Matt Benning had his "break out" year here you could see big flaws in his game still though like large scale brain farts at bad times, I don't see many red flags in Jones' game.

Now if he wants to slack off and not push himself to get better, that's on him, but if applies himself I don't see a reason why he can't have a good NHL career, and yes in the top 4.

I don't see maybe a no.1-2 D type of upside, but I think he can carve out a career as a good no.3 ala an Andrej Sekera if he works at it.

 

[Soundwave]

He was simply not as established because he was busy being one of the best Dmen in college. As if HFOil wasn't drooling over him the whole time.
His 2nd NHL season he led all the Oilers D in points with 25 playing top 4 minutes .
It was pretty much a toss up between Jones and Lagesson last year and could very well be the same next season.

Lagesson was a big nothing for the Oilers last year, 0 points in 8 games and a -4 rating.

Jones actually had the highest goals per game on the Oilers D last year with virtually no PP time and limited minutes. He should be looking to shoot more, his shot is maybe not the hardest but it is more dangerous than a lot of the "straight into the logo!" or "10 feet wide" nonsense we had going on from the blue line last year.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

Let's be honest; how bad was our RD side when Petry was coming up? He didn't have the luxury of being a LD that was developed and sheltered behind studs like Klef and Nurse. Petry's raw skills were objectively and exponentially than Jones', so it will take a huge jump in capability over one off-season for Jones to meet some people's expectations

 

[LTIR]

Lagesson was a big nothing for the Oilers last year, 0 points in 8 games and a -4 rating.

Jones actually had the highest goals per game on the Oilers D last year. He should be looking to shoot more, his shot is maybe not the hardest but it is more dangerous than a lot of the "straight into the logo!" or "10 feet wide" nonsense we had going on from the blue line last year.

Goals per game? Spin however u want but the kid scored 4 goals last year. It is nothing special.
It will be a toss up between Jones Russell and Lagesson for roster spots all with pretty equal chance.