Confirmed Trade: [NJD/EDM] Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson ‎- Part 3

[North]

Yeah that's why Gaudreau has 40 more points then Hall in the last two seasons...

Hall has actually had seasons where he was over a point per game.

Talk to me when Gaudreau does.

 

[North]

Im not sure in what world Hall is actually the better player. I wanted him to be, thats for darn sure, but lets face it, the Flames significantly improved thanks in large part to Gaudreau. Hall may be a fantastic individual player, but he did nothing to make the Oilers any better, we have been at the bottom for his entire career.

Calgary has had a better defense. The only reason they did better once Gaudreau arrived is because of the d.

Yet, last year even with Gaudreau and Monahan, Calgary was ****.

Your point proves nothing beyond one player can't carry a team.

 

[Hictor Vedman*]

Gaudreau is severely overrated on these boards.

 

[theranfordflop]

Travis Yost recently wrote a piece on Adam Larsson that I think many people are going to point to as "proof" of Larsson's offensive ability. Unfortunately, Yost's data and conclusions are specious.

Here's a sound breakdown of why nobody should trust Yost's analysis in this article: https://medium.com/@kenyong/is-adam...context-still-matters-a7344672385f#.z9y4ky8po

 

[Ogopogo*]

Travis Yost recently wrote a piece on Adam Larsson that I think many people are going to point to as "proof" of Larsson's offensive ability. Unfortunately, Yost's data and conclusions are specious.

Here's a sound breakdown of why nobody should trust Yost's analysis in this article: https://medium.com/@kenyong/is-adam...context-still-matters-a7344672385f#.z9y4ky8po

The analytics crowd is completely full of ****. They use team and group measures and try to pin that to individuals which is completely misleading bull ****.

I thought these fools would have died off with the epic failure of the Eakins/Dellow era in Edmonton but, they continue to beat their heads against the wall.

 

[Maximus74]

almost 3000 messages for what?

The Oil overpaid.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

almost 3000 messages for what?

The Oil overpaid.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Soundwave]

almost 3000 messages for what?

The Oil overpaid.

Yes they probably did, New Jersey should have had to included a good prospect on top of Larsson; having said that I think it's pretty much equally true that the Oilers roster today is considerably harder to play against than the one that ended the season.

Lucic + Larsson makes them a harder team to play against than Taylor Hall. I know Chiarelli can't say it because it might be tampering, but I think he probably had a very, very good idea they were getting Lucic on top of already adding Puljujarvi who can probably play right away too.

Larsson is a young horse of a d-man who's already solid in a shut down role but has room to grow with some untapped offensive tools and was highly touted in his draft year.

I feel bad for Hall because he was a good soldier for a lot of years and now is being shipped off just as the McDavid era is starting and they're getting a new arena, and no offence to New Jersey but they're no lock for a playoff berth either. So I can understand him being pissed off about it, but it is a business.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'd say a package of RNH + Eberle + Nurse is more valuable than just Hall

It's hard to find a team with enough cap space to take that much salary while sending only a defenseman back, so it then comes down to does RNH/Ebs/Nurse have more value than the defenseman and the other pieces they would send to balance that out? Unless it was a salary dump, probably not.

 

[Sempiternal]

Oilers needed Larsson more than they needed Hall. Larsson is underrated, has room to grow offensively and is on a good contract. Obviously the Oilers weren't going to get a stud dman like Pietrangelo, Doughty or OEL for Hall.

Yeah, a draft pick could've helped even it out, but sometimes you just go for it and try to make up what you lost. I think Chia did this with Lucic.

At the end of the day the Oilers are a better team and for that I think Chia has had a positive offseason thus far.

 

[blue_n_copper]

Yes they probably did, New Jersey should have had to included a good prospect on top of Larsson; having said that I think it's pretty much equally true that the Oilers roster today is considerably harder to play against than the one that ended the season.

Lucic + Larsson makes them a harder team to play against than Taylor Hall. I know Chiarelli can't say it because it might be tampering, but I think he probably had a very, very good idea they were getting Lucic on top of already adding Puljujarvi who can probably play right away too.

Larsson is a young horse of a d-man who's already solid in a shut down role but has room to grow with some untapped offensive tools and was highly touted in his draft year.

I feel bad for Hall because he was a good soldier for a lot of years and now is being shipped off just as the McDavid era is starting and they're getting a new arena, and no offence to New Jersey but they're no lock for a playoff berth either. So I can understand him being pissed off about it, but it is a business.

I think with the new negotiation window just before July 1, there was nothing stopping Chiarelli from reaching a verbal unenforceable "gentlemen's" agreement with Lucic before July 1 and I think that is exactly what he did. I don't think there is any way this trade would have been made when it was otherwise.

Yeah the Oilers over paid. They did that because they had a big surplus of talented young forwards and a desperate need for defence. Its not that hard to understand and I hope it works out for them obviously.

 

[qwerty]

Gaudreau is severely overrated on these boards.

You realize there were several threads that were basically dedicated to bashing him and calling him a bust right? If anything, he's underrated. Kid will never truly get his due because he's under 5'10 and people refuse to believe a player of his stature could ever succeed in this league.

 

[goonybird]

Oilers needed Larsson more than they needed Hall. Larsson is underrated, has room to grow offensively and is on a good contract. Obviously the Oilers weren't going to get a stud dman like Pietrangelo, Doughty or OEL for Hall.

Yeah, a draft pick could've helped even it out, but sometimes you just go for it and try to make up what you lost. I think Chia did this with Lucic.

At the end of the day the Oilers are a better team and for that I think Chia has had a positive offseason thus far.

based on what Shero said (something to the effect of, "I told him you don't get Larsson unless we get Hall") I think it was one-for-one or nothing at all

 

[theranfordflop]

The analytics crowd is completely full of ****. They use team and group measures and try to pin that to individuals which is completely misleading bull ****.

I thought these fools would have died off with the epic failure of the Eakins/Dellow era in Edmonton but, they continue to beat their heads against the wall.

I wouldn't say the analytics crowd is full of ****, but I think right now it's really easy for people to just throw junk out there and have fans that aren't quite so engaged take it at face value.

There's tons of good analysis out there, it's just a shame the guys with high profile national platforms are kind of ruining it for everybody else.

 

[Connor McFries]

I wouldn't say the analytics crowd is full of ****, but I think right now it's really easy for people to just throw junk out there and have fans that aren't quite so engaged take it at face value.

There's tons of good analysis out there, it's just a shame the guys with high profile national platforms are kind of ruining it for everybody else.

OT, but, am I losing my mind or is your avatar winking at me???

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Hall has actually had seasons where he was over a point per game.

Talk to me when Gaudreau does.

so much this

 

[theranfordflop]

OT, but, am I losing my mind or is your avatar winking at me???

Not sure what you're talking about.

 

[Bounces R Way]

If your position was that the Oilers would have an opportunity to actually get an equal value D in trade for a W, then I agree with you. But this entire board kept telling us that trading a W for D would result in a 'lesser' D coming back... and most of us didn't disagree... and that's what we got.

I think the expectation was that only Hall would get us a #2D with upside/age/pedigree on his side. That if it was Nuge it would be a current #3/#4 who still had top pairing upside. And if it were Drai, it was probably somewhere in between.

NJD fans are saying Larsson is a #2D already with potential for more... maybe. And most others (incl many cautious Oiler fans) are saying he's more of a 2nd pairing guy with an outside shot at a #2. Those two positions are not that irreconcilable... and it should be obvious that Chia sides with NJD fans, or rather, feels that the first move MUST happen this summer (ALL oiler fans agreed on this) and that this was the best of the available options.

And on that, I tend to agree... I think you are missing the point on Weber & Subban. It should be obvious to you, that based on the earlier rumors this week (some combination of Hall, Drai or #4 AND Klefbom or Nurse) there was no way MTL would trade Subban without a solid D coming back. NSH was probably in the same category and so their needs ALIGNED.

I'm a huge Hall fan... thought he is under-rated, still do... but I would much rather a #2D with pedigree on a solid contract for Hall.... than I would trading THREE solid assets including a solid D in order to get one better D back. That's not the type of trade that would propel this team forward... and given the systematic "loser-stink" depression surrounding all of our assets, such a trade has an even greater potential to backfire.

A one for one suits me fine... Neither Weber nor PK were coming 1for1.

Hey I mean that's all great, just keep repeating "Adam Larsson is a first pairing defenceman." to help you sleep at night. I did the same for half a season with Dougie Hamilton .

I don't even think the trade is that awful, Hall being the million dollar talent with a ten dollar brain. Doesn't change the fact that Chia just put his hopes for fixing a blueline that's been in disarray for 10 years on a 23 year old with a career high of 24 pts. Just kind of seems like half measures to me when a Weber or Subban were apparently on the market, ridiculous package or not. Now if he can get a Shattenkirk or Barrie back there as well I'll retract all criticism and applaud the bald moves.

I actually kind of respect Chia for taking a big swing at it with this and the Lucic signing, more than the last couple clowns did anyway.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Travis Yost recently wrote a piece on Adam Larsson that I think many people are going to point to as "proof" of Larsson's offensive ability. Unfortunately, Yost's data and conclusions are specious.

Here's a sound breakdown of why nobody should trust Yost's analysis in this article: https://medium.com/@kenyong/is-adam...context-still-matters-a7344672385f#.z9y4ky8po

SHHHHH!!!! Oilerbear will show up to call you a "mathphobe" and then use his analytics to "prove" how Larsson is better than Subban. Of course, since he claimed that Ference and Nikitin were better defensemen than Subban due to his "analytics", well....lol

The problem with the analytics crowd is the lack of context going hand in hand with the numbers. Raw data without any kind of contextualization can be manipulated to say anything. Data is easily manipulated without any context behind it. It is why I love oilerbear's posts. Comic gold, let me tell you.

I do not know why we need so many pages to say what everyone knows:

The Oilers overpaid. Simple.

Now, the interesting part is not if they overpaid (they did), it is whether or not they improved their team. I honestly think they did. As great as Hall is, Larsson was the bigger need. Lucie coming in to replace Hall and adding Larsson makes the Oilers a better team going forward. Size, strength, and being able to stand up for each other were all elements that Edmonton was missing. Lucie and Larsson (along with a year more mature Nurse) will make this Oilers team playoff bound. As long as McDavid avoids injury, of course.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The analytics crowd is completely full of ****. They use team and group measures and try to pin that to individuals which is completely misleading bull ****.

I thought these fools would have died off with the epic failure of the Eakins/Dellow era in Edmonton but, they continue to beat their heads against the wall.

And yet, they're being hired into leadership roles in a substantial number of NHL organizations. Weird.

The fact that analytics are easy to misinterpret (as are any statistics) doesn't mean they're useless.

 

[Soundwave]

Hey I mean that's all great, just keep repeating "Adam Larsson is a first pairing defenceman." to help you sleep at night. I did the same for half a season with Dougie Hamilton .

I don't even think the trade is that awful, Hall being the million dollar talent with a ten dollar brain. Doesn't change the fact that Chia just put his hopes for fixing a blueline that's been in disarray for 10 years on a 23 year old with a career high of 24 pts. Just kind of seems like half measures to me when a Weber or Subban were apparently on the market, ridiculous package or not. Now if he can get a Shattenkirk or Barrie back there as well I'll retract all criticism and applaud the bald moves.

I actually kind of respect Chia for taking a big swing at it with this and the Lucic signing, more than the last couple clowns did anyway.

Larsson is a much better *defender* than Shattenkirk or Barrie (or Hamilton) ... you do realize playing defence is kind of an important part of being a defenceman?

24 points is not bad considering the team he plays on, it's not like they're loaded with offensive talent, such a season would probably be more like 30-35 points given Edmonton's deeper forward pool and some guy named McDavid.

 

[Oil Spill]

You realize there were several threads that were basically dedicated to bashing him and calling him a bust right? If anything, he's underrated. Kid will never truly get his due because he's under 5'10 and people refuse to believe a player of his stature could ever succeed in this league.

Dumbest thing i've read here in awhile, this isn't 1985 where people still think like that. There have been lots of smaller players who have succeed in the league, don't starrt that pity party junk.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Dumbest thing i've read here in awhile, this isn't 1985 where people still think like that. There have been lots of smaller players who have succeed in the league, don't starrt that pity party junk.

Doesn't matter; smaller players do still have a tougher time than guys who are a little bigger. And tons of people were definitely claiming Gaudreau would bust every season until his rookie season was finished. He had lots of supporters, for sure, but tons of detractors.

And to be fair, he is a very small hockey player. Even though he's possibly 5'8ish (allegedly anyway), he literally uses a junior stick because he can't shoot properly with an adult stick. He's just so smart, deft, and agile that it doesn't matter.

 

[nostalrius]

You realize there were several threads that were basically dedicated to bashing him and calling him a bust right? If anything, he's underrated. Kid will never truly get his due because he's under 5'10 and people refuse to believe a player of his stature could ever succeed in this league.

Basically this. It's almost as if people just refuse to acknowledge the incredible talent and success of guys like St. Louis and Fleury.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

After the McDavid lottery and Pulju falling I'm not sure Chia gave a single **** about losing Hall.

For those arguing lucic is a big downgrade you have to understand Hall is a Jekyll and Hyde player.

BeastmodeHall>>>Lucic>>hallsupset

I am 100% certain that halls signature flops to draw tripping penalties (real trips) will start to magically get called in New Jersey. Instead of whining to the refs Hall will find himself on the powerplay. #strugglingmarket