Confirmed Trade: [NJD/EDM] Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson ‎- Part 3

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Roof Daddy

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Apr 1, 2008
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Oh and here let me use defensive stats from past years to prove why Edmonton will be the worst defensive team in the league this year even though they improved the defense (kind of like how NJ did with offense)

The defense rests your honor.

Except you were suggesting that the Devils had already changed their style and become a more offensive team. These are your exact words:

Thanks for the insight, its quite clear you havent watched the Devils in a while because this isnt 2003 and they arent some defensive stalwart who lacks offense anymore.

I don't know about you, but "it's clear you haven't watched the Devils in a while" suggests that they have recently shifted in style. The most recent numbers (30th GF, 8th GA) sure sounds like a D first team to me. But maybe there is a new form of English I'm unaware of, much like the version of math you practice?
 

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Except you were suggesting that the Devils had already changed their style and become a more offensive team. These are your exact words:



I don't know about you, but "it's clear you haven't watched the Devils in a while" suggests that they have recently shifted in style. The most recent numbers (30th GF, 8th GA) sure sounds like a D first team to me. But maybe there is a new form of English I'm unaware of, much like the version of math you practice?

And again, you clearly never watch the Devils :laugh:

I pity the weak minded
 

SeidoN

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the Devils HAVE shifted in style

they just havent had the talent yet for the numbers to reflect it.
 

Roof Daddy

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I see everyone focusing on whether Halls offence will decline in NJ.
I think what people are missing is that he may very well become a better all round player in a system with more structure and where forwards are coached to play both ways.
I could see a slight drop in offence but I also expect Hall to improve as a player.
Heck, watching Kessel back check in Pitts is a pretty good indication of what a change can do even for a purely offensive player. This could help Hall take his overall game even higher.

Perhaps, but if it happens it will be because the trade triggered a maturation process with Hall, it won't be because of a coaching change. Hall had 6 different coaches, many of them frustrated with the lack of focus and commitment to the system. McLellan was the most recent. Hall has always back checked hard. Where his defensive lapses come from is decision making with the puck and forcing low percentage plays that create odd man rushes the other way. If he eliminates that from his game, it will be because he finally turned a corner in terms of maturity and not making selfish plays. It has more to do with him than coaching.
 

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that's a pretty weak argument...he shows you solid stats and all you can muster is "you haven't watched the Devils"

I dont need a strong argument. When one is far more knowledgeable in an area, you can tell when someone else isn't.

Im sure that poster still thinks NJ is one of the oldest teams in the league too :laugh:
 

Dustin

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While Hall will almost surely help NJ with their GF for the year, expecting a complete turnaround in that regard is probably a little bit of a lofty expectation.
 

BeastoftheEast85

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"it's clear you haven't watched the Devils in a while" suggests that they have recently shifted in style. The most recent numbers (30th GF, 8th GA) sure sounds like a D first team to me.

Even at the height of the trap era, the Devils were still one of the higher scoring teams in the league. The Devils awful offensive performance doesn't mean they haven't shifted style, but they just had the worst offense in the league. Honestly the devils defense was bad too with Larsson and Greene really being the only defenders who could hand high end NHL quality opposition. If not for Schneider this team would have probably been like 30th in goals and in the 20s in defense.

Now that they have hall they are going to utilize him to his fullest. I could see him get close to his 2013 performance, when btw instead of McDavid and Drai Edmonton had Perron and Gagner. I think the Devils offensive compliments of Henrique, Palmeri, Zajac, Cam + a number of promising youngsters is on par or even better than that 2013 Edmonton team. Not saying hall is a lock for 70+ but he has a good chance if he stays healthy.
 

MikeK

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Thanks for the insight, its quite clear you havent watched the Devils in a while because this isnt 2003 and they arent some defensive stalwart who lacks offense anymore.

I cant wait till Hall produced top 10 in scoring again and everyone goes 'but how? NJ is old and has no offense!!'

Wecome to 2016 my friends

Why are you so defensive and hostile? Grow up and try having a mature discussion. Everything doesn't have to be an insult or attack on your precious team. We all have different opinions. Learning to deal with the fact that your opinion will differ from the rest will serve you well in life.
 

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Why are you so defensive and hostile? Grow up and try having a mature discussion. Everything doesn't have to be an insult or attack on your precious team. We all have different opinions. Learning to deal with the fact that your opinion will differ from the rest will serve you well in life.

Oh I am one of the most level headed people you could ever argue with... But on a forum board where people comment on teams they have no clue about and only can google stats on?

Yeah I dont bother wasting the finger strength
 

BeastoftheEast85

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While Hall will almost surely help NJ with their GF for the year, expecting a complete turnaround in that regard is probably a little bit of a lofty expectation.

I could agree with that but I believe Hall will help the Devs enormously in that department. As I believe Larsson will help Edm in the GA department. There are no quick fixes for lously D or O but a trade like this is the closest thing to it.
 

MikeK

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Oh I am one of the most level headed people you could ever argue with... But on a forum board where people comment on teams they have no clue about and only can google stats on?

Yeah I dont bother wasting the finger strength

It's a forum. With opinions. Opinions are not fact. Including mine and including yours. Don't be so emotional. I don't think Hall will score as many points playing for the Devils. So what? You disagree. Don't reply with your defensive and hostile replies. It adds nothing of value to the conversation.
 

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It's a forum. With opinions. Opinions are not fact. Including mine and including yours. Don't be so emotional. I don't think Hall will score as many points playing for the Devils. So what? You disagree. Don't reply with your defensive and hostile replies. It adds nothing of value to the conversation.

No, you see, forum boards are exactly the kind of place where the word 'opinion' loses its true meaning.

A poster thinking Hall will do worse than in Edmonton because of 'lack of offense' and a 'defensive first system' and then posts some meddling stats from years where the Devils best RW was Steve Bernier... That isn't an opinion, that is stupidity and makes no sense.

Just because you say it doesn't make it an opinion. that is what I dont bother arguing with. The poster even went as far as to claim Hall will have his worst offensive year yet, yet there were seasons he played with 3rd line guys and missed 10-20 games, yet they think he will do worse on a team with a GM who is doing nothing but promoting a system that fits Hall perfectly.

Just because I dont lay it down for you folks doesn't mean I dont see what is actually happening, because like I said (which people LOVE throwing away as a non-fact), 'mostly no one here watched the Devils and it is evident'.
 

Dustin

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I could agree with that but I believe Hall will help the Devs enormously in that department. As I believe Larsson will help Edm in the GA department. There are no quick fixes for lously D or O but a trade like this is the closest thing to it.

Yup. I would assume you should see a slight improvement in that regard. As NJ gets more of their young talent developed and into the lineup it will increase as well.
 

Hally BlackWood

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Really? Because he didn't manage to do that with a supporting cast of forwards that included McDavid, Draisaitl, Eberle and Nuge. He now goes to a team where the top 2 guns are Henrique and Palmeiri, and the system is more defensive. I would be shocked if he duplicates last year's numbers.

Have to agree here. If anything, playing in NJ will hurt his production. I will be shocked if he matches his production of years past. Not bashing NJ, they just don't play an offensive system and Hall will not have the same talent to play with.

Disagree he will be playing with players that share the puck rather then everyone wants to be the superstar. Supporting cast only is supporting when they share the puck.
 

MikeK

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Disagree he will be playing with players that share the puck rather then everyone wants to be the superstar. Supporting cast only is supporting when they share the puck.

You have a point. I just doing see it playing out that way though. We'll all get a chance to see soon enough though. I predict he doesn't match his totals from last season.
 

HenriquesJawLine

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Where does all this defensive system stuff come from? People say this no matter who the Devils coach is. They've lacked talent and depth since losing Parise/Kovalchuk. The Devils score a lot when they have good players. Top 6 guys like Cammalleri, Henrique, Palmieri, etc all produced last year, Stempniak had a career year. There was just no depth beyond that.
 
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JimEIV

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The Devils bottom 6 will be almost entirely different next season. Their bottom 6 was a major a problem producing almost nothing.

Hall will be just one part of the Devils solution...I think the Devils should more interested in Hall becoming a more well-rounded player than anything else. Of course we expect him to produce, but that isn't the be all end all.

What Hall is really going to do for NJ is push every one down a line...Hall will push Cammalleri down, who will push probably Boucher down who'll probably push Kalinin down to the 4th line....Kalinin was a 2nd line LW for large parts of last season.

NJ will be hoping to see that sort of push down in other areas too from people like Zacha and others.

I'm not sure if people realize how different next seasons Devils are going to be...there is more than 50% turnover in their forward group from opening night last season. There depth has been greatly improved and the finally have a crop of good young prospects ready to make contributions.

I don't know what next year's results will be but this is a vastly different NJ team from the last couple of years.
 

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The Devils bottom 6 will be almost entirely different next season. Their bottom 6 was a major a problem producing almost nothing.

Hall will be just one part of the Devils solution...I think the Devils should more interested in Hall becoming a more well-rounded player than anything else. Of course we expect him to produce, but that isn't the be all end all.

What Hall is really going to do for NJ is push every one down a line...Hall will push Cammalleri down, who will pusher probably Boucher down who'll probably push Kalinin down to the 4th line....Kalinin was a 2nd line LW for large parts of last season.

NJ will be hoping to see that sort of push down in other areas too from people like Zacha and others.

I'm not if people realize how different next seasons Devils are going to be...there is more than 50% turnover in their forward group from opening night last season. There depth has been greatly improved and the finally have a crop of good young prospects ready to make contributions.

I don't know what next year's results will be but this is a vastly different NJ team from the last couple of years.

There we go, take the one elite offensive talent we have and lower him to a two way player...

Get our of here Lamoriello
 

Bryanbryoil

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This trade is a good match actually. You have the worst ES scoring team in the league picking up the 3rd highest ES scorer in the league. And one of the worst defensive teams in the league picking up a young Dman who performed well while having one of toughest assignments (in terms of match ups and zone starts) in the league. And is on his way to becoming one of the best defenders at defending in the league (which is what wins cups).

Devils maybe got better value but realistically if they added a few decent picks, those decent picks would most likely turn into roll players or busts anyway. Edmonton needed to make moves and for all intensive purposes they got what they wanted for what they wanted to give up.

Good point and very well said. Sure it would've been nice to get a couple of 2nd's added on or something but there's no guarantee that they would've amounted to anything unless we flipped them in trade

I see everyone focusing on whether Halls offence will decline in NJ.
I think what people are missing is that he may very well become a better all round player in a system with more structure and where forwards are coached to play both ways.
I could see a slight drop in offence but I also expect Hall to improve as a player.
Heck, watching Kessel back check in Pitts is a pretty good indication of what a change can do even for a purely offensive player. This could help Hall take his overall game even higher.

If he buys in. He has the speed and strength to play a solid two way game.

I could agree with that but I believe Hall will help the Devs enormously in that department. As I believe Larsson will help Edm in the GA department. There are no quick fixes for lously D or O but a trade like this is the closest thing to it.

Hall for his warts as a player is an offense generating machine. He creates broken plays, plays on the rush, etc. The areas that IMO he is a bit weak is on the PP or when things are more stationary on the cycle, he is also not very good on breakaways in spite of getting many of them due to his speed and by trying to fly the zone fairly regularly.

Disagree he will be playing with players that share the puck rather then everyone wants to be the superstar. Supporting cast only is supporting when they share the puck.

Hall was the biggest offender of this in Edmonton, guy always wants to dominate the puck even when he played with McDavid which is why he was one of the only guys not to have chemistry with McDavid. Eberle to a lesser degree is also bad at this while McDavid, RNH and Draisaitl are all better at playing a team offensive game.

I see it more of giving a player structure where he has never had any.

Say what you will about the likes of Eakins, but McLellan pushes a structured game.
 

hotcabbagesoup

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One interesting stat/fact that I got from that article was this:

"This year he's on pace for 45 turnovers, by far his lowest mark."
This was written in December. At the end of the season, Hall ended up with 75 turnovers, a lot farther from his "on pace."


Anyone can write a good puff piece about how great Hall is while he's on a hot streak in December. But the truth is, when that streak ends, he reverts back to being horribad. Especially horribad in his own zone, and his offense doesn't nearly make up for his defensive shortcomings.

But I'm hoping the Devils can teach him to add a more complete defensive element to his game. It worked once for Kovalchuk.
 

BomaLightDevils

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One interesting stat/fact that I got from that article was this:


This was written in December. At the end of the season, Hall ended up with 75 turnovers, a lot farther from his "on pace."


Anyone can write a good puff piece about how great Hall is while he's on a hot streak in December. But the truth is, when that streak ends, he reverts back to being horribad. Especially horribad in his own zone, and his offense doesn't nearly make up for his defensive shortcomings.

But I'm hoping the Devils can teach him to add a more complete defensive element to his game. It worked once for Kovalchuk.

True but if I remember correctly he was about 100 turnovers pr season so it didn't landed on the 45 he was on pace for but it did get a lot better then the other years. But with maturity comes a more well rounded game. Remember what we need is pure offense from the 5 vs 5 even strength play and that he can provide.
 
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