Confirmed Trade: [NJD/EDM] Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson ‎- Part 3

[CaptainSexyPants]

Very good article by Travis Yost.

Not sure such a thing exists.

He doesn't dig into Larsson's puck movement, which is something NJ fans have had very high praise for. A rock-steady defenseman with the ability to get the puck to our forwards is a big deal, we haven't had a whole lot of that.

 

[oobga]

http://www.tsn.ca/why-one-dimensional-larsson-wasn-t-enough-for-hall-1.521260

Very good article by Travis Yost.

What's his sample size of games Larsson had >50% offensive zone starts last year? 4 games? maybe 5?

A nice attempt, but likely a very incomplete analysis because of limited data.


EdiT: Oops, can't answer my own question looking at naturalstatrick. 6 games last year he had >50% offensive zone starts 5v5. 2 against the pens, 1 against Det, 1 against Edmonton, 1 against Anaheim and 1 against CBJ. So yeah, barely anything to work with, definitely need to add the curve to the line to make it look like more than it is.

 

[bucks_oil]

That's basically my main issue with it. PC traded proven bonafide talent for another maybe, a promising maybe yes, but still a maybe. Counting on Larsson and Puljujarvi fully living up to their potential is just the Oilers repeating the past IMO. That blueline needs a stabilizing veteran top pairing presence, two of them were traded the same day Hall was, and neither to the Oilers. For years they have been plugging "promising" players into that lineup with the same results. And despite the narrative that defence is the problem on that team, they still finished 25th in scoring, and just traded their most established point producer.

If your position was that the Oilers would have an opportunity to actually get an equal value D in trade for a W, then I agree with you. But this entire board kept telling us that trading a W for D would result in a 'lesser' D coming back... and most of us didn't disagree... and that's what we got.

I think the expectation was that only Hall would get us a #2D with upside/age/pedigree on his side. That if it was Nuge it would be a current #3/#4 who still had top pairing upside. And if it were Drai, it was probably somewhere in between.

NJD fans are saying Larsson is a #2D already with potential for more... maybe. And most others (incl many cautious Oiler fans) are saying he's more of a 2nd pairing guy with an outside shot at a #2. Those two positions are not that irreconcilable... and it should be obvious that Chia sides with NJD fans, or rather, feels that the first move MUST happen this summer (ALL oiler fans agreed on this) and that this was the best of the available options.

And on that, I tend to agree... I think you are missing the point on Weber & Subban. It should be obvious to you, that based on the earlier rumors this week (some combination of Hall, Drai or #4 AND Klefbom or Nurse) there was no way MTL would trade Subban without a solid D coming back. NSH was probably in the same category and so their needs ALIGNED.

I'm a huge Hall fan... thought he is under-rated, still do... but I would much rather a #2D with pedigree on a solid contract for Hall.... than I would trading THREE solid assets including a solid D in order to get one better D back. That's not the type of trade that would propel this team forward... and given the systematic "loser-stink" depression surrounding all of our assets, such a trade has an even greater potential to backfire.

A one for one suits me fine... Neither Weber nor PK were coming 1for1.

 

[ddawg1950]

The question at the end of the day, and I am not an Oiler fan, are the Oilers a better team today after trading Hall for Larsson and then signing Lucic?

Clearly, they are.

Bold and smart moves by their GM.

The only caveat is, is if Larsson turns out mediocre and Lucic declines quicker than expected. That can happen in any big trade situation.

But it is the kind of move you have to make if you want your team to climb out of a decade in the dungeon.

 

[bucks_oil]

That's basically my main issue with it. PC traded proven bonafide talent for another maybe, a promising maybe yes, but still a maybe. Counting on Larsson and Puljujarvi fully living up to their potential is just the Oilers repeating the past IMO. That blueline needs a stabilizing veteran top pairing presence, two of them were traded the same day Hall was, and neither to the Oilers. For years they have been plugging "promising" players into that lineup with the same results. And despite the narrative that defence is the problem on that team, they still finished 25th in scoring, and just traded their most established point producer.

I meant to also say... I think your assessment of risk fails to consider Larsson's downside, which is quite limited. At worst I think most would agree he's anchoring your 2nd pairing and moving the puck forward... people forget that championship teams have guys like Hjarlmasson or Kronwall on their 2nd pairing.

If Hall is still racking up top-10 finishes in NHL scoring on a weak-middle of the pack team and we've got Larsson playing solidly on a 2nd pairing of a solid playoff team... The trade will still look bad on paper, but only on paper (if you catch my drift).

 

[bucks_oil]

That package was a near team killer.
Including Klefbom was the deal breaker, in my mind. A good number of Oiler fans feel like he's either a top pair guy right now, or is right there on the cusp. Removing that is 2 steps forward 1 step back.
Then adding in Draisaitl + Puljujarvi + x ? AND take on 9 mil? Forget it. No chance.

100% agree...

Hall for Larsson was the lesser of two evils. And one of those evils was not at all like the other.

The value of our players was in the tank across the board. Loser-stink and it is understandable... that's why we get in such heated arguments here. Oilers fans (and Chia, likely) still see the potential in each of these players.

Why spend four $0.25 cent assets, each one you think can still be $1.00 only to get a single $1.00 in return?

It was better to spend $1.00 and receive $0.75 in return.

 

[Roof Daddy]

http://www.tsn.ca/why-one-dimensional-larsson-wasn-t-enough-for-hall-1.521260

Very good article by Travis Yost.

Good article? In what way?

He continually repeats that Larsson is one dimensional, which is a fair statement to this point (mainly because of his role), but why not mention the same of Hall? Hall is just as guilty of being one dimensional. Just seems like he was really trying to hammer this point home as to why the Oilers lost the trade, completely overlooking the fact Hall is sub par defensively and his offensive game is far from multi-faceted (needs to carry the puck all the time and does most of his damage off the rush).

Then he goes on to say the Devils deployed him improperly based on shot differentials when he was/wasn't on the ice. He acknowledged that zone starts played a part, but that's only half the equation. If you're playing in a shutdown role, you're not just getting the worst possible zone starts, you're doing so while facing the toughest competition. Colour me shocked that when he's starting in his own zone against division rivals like Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Giroux and Tavares, that the other team is getting more shots.

That article was about as helpful as substituting a cheese grater for toilet paper.

 

[MikeModano9]

Good article? In what way?

He continually repeats that Larsson is one dimensional, which is a fair statement to this point (mainly because of his role), but why not mention the same of Hall? Hall is just as guilty of be noing one dimensional. Just seems like he was really trying to hammer this point home as to why the Oilers lost the trade, completely overlooking the fact Hall is sub par defensively and his offensive game is far from multi-faceted (needs to carry the puck all the time and does most of his damage off the rush).

Then he goes on to say the Devils deployed him improperly based on shot differentials when he was/wasn't on the ice. He acknowledged that zone starts played a part, but that's only half the equation. If you're playing in a shutdown role, you're not just getting the worst possible zone starts, you're doing so while facing the toughest competition. Colour me shocked that when he's starting in his own zone against division rivals like Ovie, Crosby, Malkin, Giroux and Tavares, that the other team is getting more shots.

That article was about as helpful as substituting a cheese grater for toilet paper.

It's Yost.. haha. Good article and his name have never been put in the same sentence in my experience.

 

[thalegion]

Articles like this and Gregor's today keep me from accepting this awful trade and moving on, my hate fire is fueled

 

[Stephen Gionta]

All in all, Edmonton traded the wrong player. RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov should've been moved. - I think Chairelli should've packaged RNH and Eberle together + something else to acquire a true #1 defenseman.

The EDM forward core should have been
McDavid
Hall
Lucic
Draisaitl
Puljajarvi


But I guess they're going in a different direction.

 

[oXo Cube]

All in all, Edmonton traded the wrong player. RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov should've been moved. - I think Chairelli should've packaged RNH and Eberle together + something else to acquire a true #1 defenseman.


But I guess they're going in a different direction.

That isn't how it works though. Who was trading a top pairing defenseman for RNH + Eberle +?

The answer is nobody.

 

[North]

All in all, Edmonton traded the wrong player. RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov should've been moved. - I think Chairelli should've packaged RNH and Eberle together + something else to acquire a true #1 defenseman.

The EDM forward core should have been
McDavid
Hall
Lucic
Draisaitl
Puljajarvi


But I guess they're going in a different direction.

The problem is that New Jersey wasn't willing to move Larsson for any of the other players.

It was Hall or nothing.

Nobody else was willing to give up their top pairing d man, and make no mistake, Larsson was on their top pairing.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I'd say a package of RNH + Eberle + Nurse is more valuable than just Hall

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

I'd say a package of RNH + Eberle + Nurse is more valuable than just Hall

And maybe thats why Edmonton did not do it. That package would be awfull for Larsson (even more than Hall)

 

[oXo Cube]

I'd say a package of RNH + Eberle + Nurse is more valuable than just Hall

Maybe, but then you have to find:

1) A team that has a top pairing D-man they want to move that also has interest in that package, and
2) Is willing/able to take on that much salary. RNH + Eberle are 12M together

Given that we have a general idea of what the price for Subban was(significantly more than this package) I can feel pretty confident in proclaiming that this team doesn't exist.

 

[McDraekke]

I'd say a package of RNH + Eberle + Nurse is more valuable than just Hall

It's also more than twice the amount of salary going to the team who would have made the trade. That has an effect.

 

[Goose]

All in all, Edmonton traded the wrong player. RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov should've been moved. - I think Chairelli should've packaged RNH and Eberle together + something else to acquire a true #1 defenseman.

The EDM forward core should have been
McDavid
Hall
Lucic
Draisaitl
Puljajarvi


But I guess they're going in a different direction.

You couldn't package anything with RNH + Eberle that would return a #1 D outside of McDavid.

 

[Dubi Doo]

At times it seems posters value winning a hockey trade over building a winning hockey team. I like what the Oilers have done this offseason.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Honestly it's the ultimate overrated player for the ultimate underrated player. This trade was a lot more fair then people say. Get over it. Hall is a liability out there. Ive been saying he was wayyyy overrated for years (some people still think he's as good as Gaudreau ), it's nice to be proven right.

 

[smackdaddy]

Honestly it's the ultimate overrated player for the ultimate underrated player. This trade was a lot more fair then people say. Get over it. Hall is a liability out there. Ive been saying he was wayyyy overrated for years (some people still think he's as good as Gaudreau ), it's nice to be proven right.

How's that RFA situation going BTW?

 

[North]

Honestly it's the ultimate overrated player for the ultimate underrated player. This trade was a lot more fair then people say. Get over it. Hall is a liability out there. Ive been saying he was wayyyy overrated for years (some people still think he's as good as Gaudreau ), it's nice to be proven right.

To be forthright, Hall is a much better player than Gaudreau.

Gaudreau was gifted easy minutes in order to pad his stats.

 

[beowulf]

I still don't get this one as much as I don't get the PK trade.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

To be forthright, Hall is a much better player than Gaudreau.

Gaudreau was gifted easy minutes in order to pad his stats.

Yeah that's why Gaudreau has 40 more points then Hall in the last two seasons...

 

[Beerfish]

Honestly it's the ultimate overrated player for the ultimate underrated player. This trade was a lot more fair then people say. Get over it. Hall is a liability out there. Ive been saying he was wayyyy overrated for years (some people still think he's as good as Gaudreau ), it's nice to be proven right.

Yeah we will put a ton of credence in the opinion of a Flames fan on this one.

 

[ozhenson]

To be forthright, Hall is a much better player than Gaudreau.

Gaudreau was gifted easy minutes in order to pad his stats.

Im not sure in what world Hall is actually the better player. I wanted him to be, thats for darn sure, but lets face it, the Flames significantly improved thanks in large part to Gaudreau. Hall may be a fantastic individual player, but he did nothing to make the Oilers any better, we have been at the bottom for his entire career.