Player Discussion Nikolay Goldobin

[Canucks1096]

You are comparing production and you are stating that Sutter has similar production than Malhotra. I am saying Sutter was extremely lucky to get that production. As a matter of fact

1. Manny played 1 less minute per game
2. Sutter got the production with a extremely nice shooting % in his favour
3. Sutter was lucky to get those esp
4. Comparing the two in similar conditions, Malhotra was the most productive player, no matter how much stats you ignore to prove your point.

So, next time, if you don't mind, try to understand at least a little of what advanced stats are and how can you judge them correctly. Thanks in advance.

1 are you really going to nitpick at that 1 min. That user was indicating that Sutter should produce a lot more because he is getting a lot mins which is not true. Also Manny had pp time as and has 6 ppp. Sutter was able to score more as ES.

2/3 Sutter shooting percentage 10.4. That is the same shooting he has in his career. I guess his whole career is lucky? Sorry you need to come out with a better excuse.

Also with advance stats. It is so subjective. Everyone will have different story what advance stats is the most useful. Right now you are pretty much telling me your opinion and indicating your method is better way to look and that's pretty much it.

Seem you are debating for the sake of debating.

 

[Shareefruck]

I just hate Sutter's tunnel-vision way of supporting the play and killing the momentum of any other player on his line. It's just super frustrating to watch. Malhotra complemented other players well and was never disruptive in the offensive zone in the same way.

 

[Jay Cee]

Sutter would do well if he had a good energy player on his line who was gritty and good at digging at pucks and creating offense. Something like Kesler had in Burrows when they were both good 3rd line players.

 

[Zombotron]

This is not a Brandon Sutter thread. Kindly get back on topic.

 

[alternate]

Goldoblin's puck skills are so damn sexy, and his 200 foot game and effort showed some improvement down the stretch.

Hard to see him sticking outside the top 6 (unless instead of a 4th line we run 3 scoring lines). As has been said, going into a make or break offseason. I'm hoping he puts it all together so we get to see regular servings of his sick dangles.

 

[ayoshi]

7 points in his last 11 games was promising.

 

[Krnuckfan]

7 points in his last 11 games was promising.

Emerson etem had 7 points in his last 8 games on the canucks during garbage time.

Half the games we played in the end the opposing team was completely mailing it in.

Hopefully he shows the same sort of production throughout the entire year next season

 

[MadaCanuckle]

1 are you really going to nitpick at that 1 min. That user was indicating that Sutter should produce a lot more because he is getting a lot mins which is not true. Also Manny had pp time as and has 6 ppp. Sutter was able to score more as ES.

2/3 Sutter shooting percentage 10.4. That is the same shooting he has in his career. I guess his whole career is lucky? Sorry you need to come out with a better excuse.

Also with advance stats. It is so subjective. Everyone will have different story what advance stats is the most useful. Right now you are pretty much telling me your opinion and indicating your method is better way to look and that's pretty much it.

Seem you are debating for the sake of debating.

1. With 1 more minute of ice time you can more, right or wrong?

2. In Carolina, he had a lower SH%. But as you proved over and over again, you don't understand PDO. Yes, he has been extremely luck in 2017, like he was in the 1st year in Pittsburgh and in 2011 in Carolina.

3. The numbers don't lie. Next year, in the same conditions, we can check again who's right or who's wrong.

4. No, I'm debating because you're being dishonest. When people caught you about "your stats", the answer is "you're nitpicking".

 

[Luck 6]

Emerson etem had 7 points in his last 8 games on the canucks during garbage time.

Half the games we played in the end the opposing team was completely mailing it in.

Hopefully he shows the same sort of production throughout the entire year next season

Maybe so, but Goldobin really passed the eye test.. I was extremely impressed with him down the stretch. Earlier in the season I had my doubts, but he’s made a believer out of me that he’ll at least carve out a 2nd line role.

 

[Canucks1096]

1. With 1 more minute of ice time you can more, right or wrong?

2. In Carolina, he had a lower SH%. But as you proved over and over again, you don't understand PDO. Yes, he has been extremely luck in 2017, like he was in the 1st year in Pittsburgh and in 2011 in Carolina.

3. The numbers don't lie. Next year, in the same conditions, we can check again who's right or who's wrong.

4. No, I'm debating because you're being dishonest. When people caught you about "your stats", the answer is "you're nitpicking".

1 if you read the post again I wrote they got "around the same mins" the word "around" can be subjective but I am sure most people will agree 1 min we can use the word around. I even wrote out in my post Sutter played 17 mins and Manny 16 Mins.

2 hahahaha. I think your fav fruits are cherries because you love to cherry pick. So you are giving me 3 different years on WHY Sutter is lucky. It happened that often can you really use the word lucky? One again this season He matched his career shooting percentage.

3 seriously I have no clue why you keep bringing the pdo. The pdo has nothing to do about this conversation. If you want to talk about it Sutter and Manny Pdo were about the same as well. Once again remember I never said once Sutter is better than Manny.

Just friendly reminder the user wrote Manny is better at preventing shots against. He didn't write Manny has better shooting percentage and better at preventing goals. That's why we are not looking at Pdo So I looked at the Corsi because that stat looks at shot forward and against.. Or I can only look CA only which is similar as well.

Back to original post. You still haven't proven me wrong. Please try again if you are still interested. I am still thinking you are confuse about the original post. Before you reply you can go back and read it. Thank you.

 

[Canucks1096]

Maybe so, but Goldobin really passed the eye test.. I was extremely impressed with him down the stretch. Earlier in the season I had my doubts, but he’s made a believer out of me that he’ll at least carve out a 2nd line role.

Sometimes the eye test can trick you. Sometimes you only see What you want to see. Like Virtanen for example people just see the blazing speed and at times he takes puck to the net. But they don't see all the giveaways and mistakes he makes on the ice.

 

[Kryten]

Sometimes the eye test can trick you. Sometimes you only see What you want to see. Like Virtanen for example people just see the blazing speed and at times he takes puck to the net. But they don't see all the giveaways and mistakes he makes on the ice.

Possibly, we have one more year to really find out with Goldy at least. He really did seem to be in the right places and worked hard near the end. Im not convinced about a 2nd line future role but next year he needs to find consistency

 

[LordBacon]

Feels like he's gonna be a 3rd line scoring guy. He has tons of skill and talent but like juolevi his biggest problem is he's not engaged enough, you look at him when he doesnt have the puck and you feel like he still has more to give. None the less I feel like goldy is a great return for a rapidly declining hansen. Hope he has a great season next year.

 

[Intangibos]

Feels like he's gonna be a 3rd line scoring guy. He has tons of skill and talent but like juolevi his biggest problem is he's not engaged enough, you look at him when he doesnt have the puck and you feel like he still has more to give. None the less I feel like goldy is a great return for a rapidly declining hansen. Hope he has a great season next year.

That's not the kind of guy you want on your 3rd line, unless he's a 2nd line caliber player.

 

[Addison Rae]

I think he’s a stop gap guy that will peak as a ~45 point player in the right situation.

Don’t see him as a long term fixture despite being really high on him when we traded for him.

I do think he should be given every opportunity to succedd this year though and really should have been given Vanek’s minutes last year, especially considering we essentially traded Vanek for negative value.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

1 if you read the post again I wrote they got "around the same mins" the word "around" can be subjective but I am sure most people will agree 1 min we can use the word around. I even wrote out in my post Sutter played 17 mins and Manny 16 Mins.

2 hahahaha. I think your fav fruits are cherries because you love to cherry pick. So you are giving me 3 different years on WHY Sutter is lucky. It happened that often can you really use the word lucky? One again this season He matched his career shooting percentage.

3 seriously I have no clue why you keep bringing the pdo. The pdo has nothing to do about this conversation. If you want to talk about it Sutter and Manny Pdo were about the same as well. Once again remember I never said once Sutter is better than Manny.

Just friendly reminder the user wrote Manny is better at preventing shots against. He didn't write Manny has better shooting percentage and better at preventing goals. That's why we are not looking at Pdo So I looked at the Corsi because that stat looks at shot forward and against.. Or I can only look CA only which is similar as well.

Back to original post. You still haven't proven me wrong. Please try again if you are still interested. I am still thinking you are confuse about the original post. Before you reply you can go back and read it. Thank you.

1. So you agree with me. Good for you.

2. I am cherry picking, nitpicking when the numbers go against your statements. And I am picking those years because you base your entire opinion on a good year and make conclusions about it. You are countering the other posters opinion solely based on that skewed data.
The career SH% is inflated by his Pittsburgh years. Look at his numbers with Carolina and look at his evolution within our team. The numbers will regress and this was an abnormal year.

3. You don't understand PDO. Go read something about it. For example, this same stat tells us that Goldobin can be a productive forward next year and even better than he was in the final games.

Saying that I couldn't prove you wrong when data says otherwise is the kind of argument that you used in this entire discussion. When you are too stubborn to see past your opinion, it is a little complex to discuss anything. Before you reply, at least make an effort to understand what you clearly don't understand right now. Thank you.

 

[tantalum]

Maybe so, but Goldobin really passed the eye test.. I was extremely impressed with him down the stretch. Earlier in the season I had my doubts, but he’s made a believer out of me that he’ll at least carve out a 2nd line role.

As mentioned sometimes the eye test lies. The beauty of garbage time is that younger players get away with plays they will not get away with in October. Beauty because it provides a more of an environment of patience and allowing a player to do his thing. Do some coaching when mistakes are made but throw him right back out there next shift. And while Goldobin looked better he was still making ill advised passes in the neutral zone...forgiven in garbage time but eating popcorn the next game when October comes 'round.

So it remains to be seen where he ends up.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Again you guys. This is a Nikolay Goldobin thread. Please keep it that way.

Thank you.

 

[Lindgren]

"After being injured in Utica's final regular-season game, Nikolay Goldobin participated in a full practice on Thursday. Word is that the team was being cautious with Goldobin, who suffered a hip pointer."

From HockeyBuzz:
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Caro...r-record-in-Swedish-League-playoffs/194/92468

 

[vancityluongo]

Think Goldobin showed reasonably enough to slot into Baertschi's role next season so we can trade Sven for a defenseman/upgrade somewhere else.

Don't think Goldobin is more than a 35-40 point player ever, so they should look to flip him in a couple years when a better long term solution (hopefully Dahlen/Lind) is ready to take over. But for next season, yeah, play him in the top-6.

 

[Melvin]

Even just to recoup the second we paid for Sven would be a win.

 

[sting101]

How about we keep good young players and let them reach their peeks before we flip them for 2nd rounders which rarely work out...ffs

 

[F A N]

How about we keep good young players and let them reach their peeks before we flip them for 2nd rounders which rarely work out...ffs

Ya, I think that many of us (include me) places too great of a value on draft picks at times and lose track of the fact that the key is turning those draft picks into NHL players. Baertschi is a good player. It's too bad that he can't seem to stay healthy. Otherwise he's essentially a 20+ 45+ point guy. What are the odds of say Kole Lind developing into that type of player? Personally, I think it's less than 50/50. If Baertschi was 28, then it's a different story. But Baertschi is 25 and won't be a UFA for another 2 years. There's no pressing need to move him this summer.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Even as lukewarm and mediocre a player as Baertschi is, Goldobin still has to look up to see him. And neither should feel the least bit secure in their positions with Dahlen, Pettersson, Lind, etc etc etc coming up.

 

[Canucks1096]

Ya, I think that many of us (include me) places too great of a value on draft picks at times and lose track of the fact that the key is turning those draft picks into NHL players. Baertschi is a good player. It's too bad that he can't seem to stay healthy. Otherwise he's essentially a 20+ 45+ point guy. What are the odds of say Kole Lind developing into that type of player? Personally, I think it's less than 50/50. If Baertschi was 28, then it's a different story. But Baertschi is 25 and won't be a UFA for another 2 years. There's no pressing need to move him this summer.

I think It's another year only before Baertschi becomes ufa. Its 27 years old or 7 pro seasons. Next season will be his 7th Pro season.