Recalled/Assigned: Nikita Zadorov sent back to juniors

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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I didn't say otherwise. They have poorly slotted players for a number of years and bled talent in the same span. It's like the "Spanish Inquisition" skit. Their problem is... their problems are... their meriad problems are... :biglaugh:

They don't have enough talent and what they did have they've mostly traded.

if only you had just responded..."I didn't expect a spanish inquisition!!!!"

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

Kyndig

Registered User
Jan 3, 2012
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Yea, because there's no way Grigorenko will eeeeeever work on his speed. He couldn't possibly get faster. He's as fast as he'll ever be. 19 yr. olds don't develop past 19.




:biglaugh:

Well you know what they say. You cant teach speed.
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
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Well you know what they say. You cant teach speed.

Yea, well one example that blows that out of the water that I know you're familiar with is Hodgson. He absolutely is a better AND quicker skater than 2 years ago. I'm not saying he's fast. He's certainly not a slow skater either. He has absolutely improved in that area. Only the blind haters can't see that. Or those that can't remember past a few months.

And you know what they say. Where there's one there's probably more.

There's no reason to think Grigorenko has peaked in any area besides height, at 19. None.
 

NotABadPeriod

ForFriendshipDikembe
Oct 28, 2006
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most of the "problems" (as it relates to wins/losses) have little to do with either of those things... in a "why they suck" conversation... it starts and ends with how very little proven talent or high end players they have at the most important positions.

help in the form of veteran depth would allow them to structure a little better... but the results would be little to no different... just like sending down the kids and playing more vets... or bringing in a new coach, isn't going to change where this team is headed in wins/losses

Agreed, but at the same time I don't think most of us are measuring this team by wins/losses at this point. Or at least I hope not. It's how they are losing, and what that means long-term for the prospects we are counting on for this rebuild.
 

Kyndig

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Jan 3, 2012
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Yea, well one example that blows that out of the water that I know you're familiar with is Hodgson. He absolutely is a better AND quicker skater than 2 years ago. I'm not saying he's fast. He's certainly not a slow skater either. He has absolutely improved in that area. Only the blind haters can't see that. Or those that can't remember past a few months.

And you know what they say. Where there's one there's probably more.

There's no reason to think Grigorenko has peaked in any area besides height, at 19. None.

I think you're right on that one. I was actually thinking my eyes deceived me when I thought Hodgson was noticebly faster this season.
 

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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Yea, well one example that blows that out of the water that I know you're familiar with is Hodgson. He absolutely is a better AND quicker skater than 2 years ago. I'm not saying he's fast. He's certainly not a slow skater either. He has absolutely improved in that area. Only the blind haters can't see that. Or those that can't remember past a few months.

And you know what they say. Where there's one there's probably more.

There's no reason to think Grigorenko has peaked in any area besides height, at 19. None.

significant improvement. i think stokes is the only one who cant see that
 

Havok89

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Oct 26, 2010
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significant improvement. i think stokes is the only one who cant see that

There were a few games this year I thought he looked really slow with little improvement. But tonight he had a great burst of speed on that 2 on 1 with Stafford in the first period. Wish he took a shot instead of forcing the pass through two prone players.
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
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I had no idea if the vets vs the rookies thing is true, but if so, I'm siding with the rookies.

A - the rookies don't play themselves, coaches play them, it's not their fault
B - our vets are complete pants... personally, I have no respect for Ott as a player or a leader, so whatever /shrug.
Stafford has no right to badmouth anyone, Tallinder too etc.
C- I have not seen or heard these kids say anything out of place, even when being completely misused

This franchise has become a complete farce.

We got Steve Ott as the captain and Hank "Has-Been" Tallinder as the leaders, Stafford as a veteran etc...
 

Kyndig

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Jan 3, 2012
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It's one thing to send them back down figuring it will help their progression.

Its a whole nother thing to throw them under the bus when they don't deserve it.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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I had no idea if the vets vs the rookies thing is true, but if so, I'm siding with the rookies.

A - the rookies don't play themselves, coaches play them, it's not their fault
B - our vets are complete pants... personally, I have no respect for Ott as a player or a leader, so whatever /shrug.
Stafford has no right to badmouth anyone, Tallinder too etc.
C- I have not seen or heard these kids say anything out of place, even when being completely misused

This franchise has become a complete farce.

We got Steve Ott as the captain and Hank "Has-Been" Tallinder as the leaders, Stafford as a veteran etc...

:rolleyes:

When the organization is rushing players, it's a joke. When it pumps the brakes on players, it's a joke.

Having quality veterans like Ott and Tallinder leading the way when your organization is in a period of transition is hardly a bad thing.
 

Corto

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Sep 28, 2005
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:rolleyes:

When the organization is rushing players, it's a joke. When it pumps the brakes on players, it's a joke.

Having quality veterans like Ott and Tallinder leading the way when your organization is in a period of transition is hardly a bad thing.

Ott and Tallinder certainly don't qualify in the "quality veterans" category in my book.
And certainly not when they throw down kids under the bus like this.
I mean, these aren't exactly Mike Peca and Teppo Numminen we're talking about here.

Like I said, I find Steve Ott to be a an overrated player and a questionable leader... In fact, most of what I've seen and heard of him points that he certainly is NOT what you want in a leader, especially team captain.
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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Ott and Tallinder certainly don't qualify in the "quality veterans" category in my book.
And certainly not when they throw down kids under the bus like this.
I mean, these aren't exactly Mike Peca and Teppo Numminen we're talking about here.

Like I said, I find Steve Ott to be a an overrated player and a questionable leader... In fact, most of what I've seen and heard of him points that he certainly is NOT what you want in a leader, especially team captain.

Nobody threw anyone under the bus. At all. It's silly to suggest that.

And how are they not quality veterans? I agree that Ott is an overrated player, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an effective third liner and, based on his leadership roles in both Buffalo and Dallas, a solid leader - despite your analysis of his captaincy.

Tallinder is absolutely a good leader for these young players. Nolan came in and gave him an 'A' within a day of joining the team for a reason.

The organization is rebuilding. The players it anticipates taking on leadership roles in the future aren't ready for them yet. Ott and Tallinder are quality stopgaps, you just don't seem to have the patience/foresight to accept them as such.

Didn't Adrian Aucoin and Marty Lapointe share the C in Chicago before Teows took over?
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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I had no idea if the vets vs the rookies thing is true, but if so, I'm siding with the rookies.

A - the rookies don't play themselves, coaches play them, it's not their fault
B - our vets are complete pants... personally, I have no respect for Ott as a player or a leader, so whatever /shrug.
Stafford has no right to badmouth anyone, Tallinder too etc.
C- I have not seen or heard these kids say anything out of place, even when being completely misused

This franchise has become a complete farce.

We got Steve Ott as the captain and Hank "Has-Been" Tallinder as the leaders, Stafford as a veteran etc...

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/

Multiple Sabres veterans said the young players did as well as they could, but they were not NHL ready.

"It's not their fault," said defenseman Mike Weber, who was activated from injured reserve and will play after missing 10 games with a broken thumb. "This is the best league in the world for a reason. It's tough for anyone to come out of juniors or wherever you're coming from to step in.

"It's a good opportunity for those guys to go down, play some bigger minutes, play some more important roles and take the experience they have from here down there or wherever they're going."

I know some are upset their shiny new toys are gone but what Weber said and the sentiments attributed to the vets are spot on.
 

Duddy

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Dec 24, 2005
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http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/



I know some are upset their shiny new toys are gone but what Weber said and the sentiments attributed to the vets are spot on.

But what's Webers excuse? His play wouldn't even get him a spot on a junior team. Also the thing that the vets, weren't "happy" that the rookies got gifted spots, is still floating around.

Our vets suck, all of them. None of them is a leader of any kind. Too bad we can't trade all of them.
 

slip

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http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/I know some are upset their shiny new toys are gone but what Weber said and the sentiments attributed to the vets are spot on.

I don't think anyone is complaining about losing their shiny new toys. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone around here who doesn't agree with sending down Grigorenko and Zadorov, Larsson too, with some justifiable dissenters over Risto's demotion.

The problem is the subtle but obvious attempts by the "vets" to scapegoat the teenagers for the team's poor play, as if Grigorenko's 8 minutes a night really makes a difference. Weber was displaced by Risto and he's obviously bitter. In fact, Weber and Ott are starting to really ****ing annoy me, but that's just me.

Heck, I'm not even mad at the vets. When you see your team go from Hockey Heaven to league laughing stock in a matter of months, it's hard to avoid the acrimony and finger pointing. It's all understandable, forgivable, and hopefully forgettable. But what guys like Ott, Hank, and anyone else who has an issue with the youth movement need to understand is that it's inevitable. So either embrace the kids or get the **** out of the way.
 

joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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I don't think anyone is complaining about losing their shiny new toys. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone around here who doesn't agree with sending down Grigorenko and Zadorov, Larsson too, with some justifiable dissenters over Risto's demotion.
Some posters are definitely complaining because they are missing their shiny new toys. As evidenced by some complaining about them getting sent down because they were the only reason they liked watching the games.

The problem is the subtle but obvious attempts by the "vets" to scapegoat the teenagers for the team's poor play, as if Grigorenko's 8 minutes a night really makes a difference. Weber was displaced by Risto and he's obviously bitter. In fact, Weber and Ott are starting to really ****ing annoy me, but that's just me.

Heck, I'm not even mad at the vets. When you see your team go from Hockey Heaven to league laughing stock in a matter of months, it's hard to avoid the acrimony and finger pointing. It's all understandable, forgivable, and hopefully forgettable.

I think folks need to better understand the balance that is needed when handling vets -vs- rookies. Last night Brian Duff was talking about the balance Hitch was trying to strike between his surging youngsters while respecting the vets and their ice time. I doubt anyone here would argue St. Louis has crappy vets, poor leadership or undeserving youngsters. So even in a much better situation its a concern for a well run and well coached team.

Vet players earned their way and paid their dues (regardless of skill level). I can understand why they would be annoyed by a bunch of kids that didn't earn spots being handed spots on the roster.

And lets not forget what happened in Philly between the established players and the young guns leading to Carter and Richards heading out of town.

Issues between vets and younger players can manifest in many ways and are a more common issue than some on here seem to realize.
But what guys like Ott, Hank, and anyone else who has an issue with the youth movement need to understand is that it's inevitable. So either embrace the kids or get the **** out of the way.

We already had a bunch of youth on the roster that worked their way up and are still developing. Guys up front under 25 yrs old like Hodgson (23), Ennis (24), Foligno (22), Tropp (24/rookie?) Flynn (25/rookie) and now Adam (23). On the backend we have Myers (23) and Pysyk (21/rookie) and now add McNabb (22). I suppose you could throw McBain and Weber in there as well since they are both still only 25 years old. And in net Enroth (25)

Now added to that we still have Grigs (19) and Girgs (19).


We only have 5 established vets up front in Ott (31), Moulson (30) McComick (30), Leino (30) and Stafford (28). On the backend there are only two; Tallinder (34) and Ehrhoff (31). Obviously in net there is Miller (33). Thats only 8 established NHL vets. I suppose you could make it 9 if you counted Scott (30).

The youth movement was already very much underway. Adding even younger kids unprepared for the NHL like Regier did was just dumb. Lets work out what we have with the under 25 group ahead of them first before jumping ahead just yet. Especially since those are the ages that players start coming into their developmentally.
 
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Corto

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Sep 28, 2005
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Some posters are definitely complaining because they are missing their shiny new toys. As evidenced by some complaining about them getting sent down because they were the only reason they liked watching the games.



I think folks need to better understand the balance that is needed when handling vets -vs- rookies. Last night Brian Duff was talking about the balance Hitch was trying to strike between his surging youngsters while respecting the vets and their ice time. I doubt anyone here would argue St. Louis has crappy vets, poor leadership or undeserving youngsters. So even in a much better situation its a concern for a well run and well coached team.

Vet players earned their way and paid their dues (regardless of skill level). I can understand why they would be annoyed by a bunch of kids that didn't earn spots being handed spots on the roster.

And lets not forget what happened in Philly between the established players and the young guns leading to Carter and Richards heading out of town.

Issues between vets and younger players can manifest in many ways and are a more common issue than some on here seem to realize.


We already had a bunch of youth on the roster that worked their way up and are still developing. Guys up front under 25 yrs old like Hodgson (23), Ennis (24), Foligno (22), Tropp (24/rookie?) Flynn (25/rookie) and now Adam (23). On the backend we have Myers (23) and Pysyk (21/rookie) and now add McNabb (22). I suppose you could throw McBain and Weber in there as well since they are both still only 25 years old. And in net Enroth (25)

Now added to that we still have Grigs (19) and Girgs (19).


We only have 5 established vets up front in Ott (31), Moulson (30) McComick (30), Leino (30) and Stafford (28). On the backend there are only two; Tallinder (34) and Ehrhoff (31). Obviously in net there is Miller (33). Thats only 8 established NHL vets. I suppose you could make it 9 if you counted Scott (30).

I have no issue with the kids being sent down, but the manner and timing is all wrong, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, like I said, take my opinion with a grain of salt, I don't watch as many games as I used to and I don't follow TBN/Bulldog/whatever as regularly as I used to.

That's one thing, the other is the veterans themselves being absolute rubbish.
Weber, Ott, STAFFORDSTAFFORDSTAFFORD, etc. They all suck.
And I mean, SUCK. They certainly didn't earn the right to mouth off on anyone, especially Weber, who Risto -19 years old or not - IMO outplayed.

Another thing is personal, not objective in any way mind you, and that's the excitement level.
I don't see anyone on this roster who's going to be a part of a successful team outside of Girgensons, Foligno, Pysyk, maybe Myers (yes, "maybe").
Ehrhoff will probably begin to tail off by the time the rebuild is done and I just don't see guys like Hodgson and Ennis being more than fringe top-6/top-9 players (on a good team) unless something dramatically changes in their games.

The team is boring and just become more boring today.
 

slip

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I think folks need to better understand the balance that is needed when handling vets -vs- rookies. Last night Brian Duff was talking about the balance Hitch was trying to strike between his surging youngsters while respecting the vets and their ice time. I doubt anyone here would argue St. Louis has crappy vets, poor leadership or undeserving youngsters. So even in a much better situation its a concern for a well run and well coached team.

We are today where St. Louis was 5 years ago, so I don't think Duff's analogy is valid.

I had a much longer, detailed response to your post, two of them actually, but I keep ****ing deleting them! I give up.
 

Chainshot

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Zadorov into the Subway Series immediately, onto a well-stocked Knights team hosting the Memorial Cup as well as an opportunity to play for the U20 WJC team.... Let's see if he can continue on his recent development curve. The physical aspect of his game could be terrifying when he is fully grown as it seems he really, really doesn't like the other team regardless of who he's facing. Zad will punish.

The fun part was seeing flashes of what he can do when he's aggressive in the offensive end. THAT is the part of his game I'd like to see him rounding out this year: working on when to go, how to go, and gaining confidence in distributing the puck.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Hamburg,NY
We are today where St. Louis was 5 years ago, so I don't think Duff's analogy is valid.

I had a much longer, detailed response to your post, two of them actually, but I keep ****ing deleting them! I give up.

Duff wasn't making an analogy between the two situations. He was just talking about the Blues. It had nothing to do with the Sabres.

I was using this to point ou that this dynamic plays itself out in every locker regardless of how good or bad the team is.
 

French Connection

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Aug 16, 2007
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But what's Webers excuse? His play wouldn't even get him a spot on a junior team. Also the thing that the vets, weren't "happy" that the rookies got gifted spots, is still floating around.

Our vets suck, all of them. None of them is a leader of any kind. Too bad we can't trade all of them.

Heeelllllooooo! Its Ron Rolston, period. That coach ran this team like a barrel of monkeys which will take a considerable amount of time to fix.

Every "VET" player to a man has stated as such, are they all wrong?
 

French Connection

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Aug 16, 2007
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I don't think anyone is complaining about losing their shiny new toys. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone around here who doesn't agree with sending down Grigorenko and Zadorov, Larsson too, with some justifiable dissenters over Risto's demotion.

The problem is the subtle but obvious attempts by the "vets" to scapegoat the teenagers for the team's poor play, as if Grigorenko's 8 minutes a night really makes a difference. Weber was displaced by Risto and he's obviously bitter. In fact, Weber and Ott are starting to really ****ing annoy me, but that's just me.

Heck, I'm not even mad at the vets. When you see your team go from Hockey Heaven to league laughing stock in a matter of months, it's hard to avoid the acrimony and finger pointing. It's all understandable, forgivable, and hopefully forgettable. But what guys like Ott, Hank, and anyone else who has an issue with the youth movement need to understand is that it's inevitable. So either embrace the kids or get the **** out of the way.

None of these ROOKIES belong here, Let them grow and become better players at a resonable rate in the level where they can shine.

NOW this team finally has some vision.
 
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