Nico v. Nolan

[Psuhockey]

I would still put money on the Devils taking Patrick. NHL GMs view big #1 center prospects much like big franchise quarterbacks: if you don't have one, you will alway dream of acquiring one and size matters. In a toss up, the bigger guy wins in most GMs minds.

 

[Striiker]

Hey, atleast I've actually watched them play

Yeah, me too. Remember when they hit 80 points in Edmonton?

(I know they actually didn't but I'm going to say they did because that's what we do now, I guess)

 

[Flyerfan13]

I would still put money on the Devils taking Patrick. NHL GMs view big #1 center prospects much like big franchise quarterbacks: if you don't have one, you will alway dream of acquiring one and size matters. In a toss up, the bigger guy wins in most GMs minds.

I agree how do they pass on the guy that has been the consensus #1 pick for the past couple of years and justify it to their fan base. If they take Patrick and Nico becomes a star on their rival team Shero can at least say many experts had Patrick as the top pick in justifying it not so easy the other way around.

 

[Hockeypete49]

I hope luck has finally hit us because one special player can really jumpstart a franchise. We have had our hits but we have had some bad luck also. Kane vs JVR and for me we got the shaft in 1975. Mel was at best a 2nd round player and we should have been able to draft Bryan Trottier in 75 but in 74 the league allowed under aged players to be drafted because of the WHA then back to 20 year olds in 75. So all the cream was gone by then. Oh well I have a feeling Ray is going to go with Nico. Either player for me is a HR(home run).
By the way google earth Nico's home town. It is amazing to see.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I agree with all the reasoning as to why the Devils would take Patrick first.

But Button's confidence in tabbing Hischier to NJ in his mock draft is what makes me think it'll be Nico.

 

[Rebels57]

So "everyone" has Patrick at 1, but the example that you give that has Nico at 1 clearly has Patrick "barely" behind him.

Of course Konecny has a better writer than both.

You just put quotations around the word everyone in a reply to one of my comments that DIDN'T use the word everyone. I can only conclude from this that you don't how to properly use quotation marks.



And since I can't make heads or tails of the rest of your comment due to grammatical inconsistency, i'll just add that Button has Patrick as his Top Prospect but he has Hischier going 1st in his Mock Draft.

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-lots-of-talent-after-patrick-hischier-1.702428

 

[Sawdalite]

I hope luck has finally hit us because one special player can really jumpstart a franchise. We have had our hits but we have had some bad luck also. Kane vs JVR and for me we got the shaft in 1975. Mel was at best a 2nd round player and we should have been able to draft Bryan Trottier in 75 but in 74 the league allowed under aged players to be drafted because of the WHA then back to 20 year olds in 75. So all the cream was gone by then. Oh well I have a feeling Ray is going to go with Nico. Either player for me is a HR(home run).
By the way google earth Nico's home town. It is amazing to see.

But we can rationalize that by saying that had the Rule Change not been made the prior year, we probably wouldn't have been able to make the trade that brought us the #1OA... We got it pretty cheaply with Clemment IIRC... Had the cream been still at the top, either the Selection would have been retained, or the cost would have been too high for us to meet.

In any case, Bridgman was certainly not the poster-boy #1 by any means.

 

[evnted]

If they take Patrick and Nico becomes a star on their rival team Shero can at least say many experts had Patrick as the top pick in justifying it not so easy the other way around.

if Ray uses the same sources we're looking at to justify picking a player that busts out over a player that becomes a star, he should be fired lol

 

[Sawdalite]

Serious question for those who have actual knowledge on the subject:

What can Organizations do... what is physically available to Organizations in terms of obtaining documented information about medical treatment of Players in the Draft... hands on and/or Official examination and treatment?

In the NFL there are combines where Players can and do perform various physical activities for the Organizations to gauge and personally inspect certain aspects... The Players can opt out or attend... Is there such in the NHL and can we assume that Nico and Nolan would pass on any such event?

Also, can all Organizations have access to all information regardless of where they are slotted? I would assume that to be the case.

Point being that I'm sure that Shero would want to leave no stone unturned before he makes this potentially Organizational changing decision... as would Hextall before he decides if he wants Shero's also-ran or one of the off the board options... Can Shero bring in Nolan and have his medical people examine him personally, or get only his records to inspect? I would imagine that 31 Organizations can't bring in a Player before the Draft... as it would be too much to expect a prospect to go through.

All facts greatly appreciated.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm not sure if players do individual testing outside of what happens at the combine.

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/icehockey/nhl-draft.htm

 

[Sawdalite]

I'm not sure if players do individual testing outside of what happens at the combine.

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/icehockey/nhl-draft.htm

Thanks... this is a great starting point... The main questions now are; if Nico/Nolan will be participating... can/will the Devils/Flyers have a hands on physical examination of them, especially Nolan... and how much availability of Official Documentation of prior treatment will the Teams have?

Below is the pertinent portion of the cited link... I personally cannot understand how the medical portion can be done so quickly -- half hour -- when it includes an echocardiogram... I have had numerous ones done and can attest that they take a good amount of time alone to be done... Possibly they are done outside the average half hour exam??

Medical Evaluation

The medical assessment is comprised of a health questionnaire and a physical examination conducted by a medical physician. An extensive knee examination is also conducted if the physician identifies a possible problem. In 2009 an echocardiogram test was added to the medical screening. The medical portion of the testing takes about a half an hour, and includes:

* completion of a health questionnaire

* questions and examination by doctors

* photographs of the player

* an eye test

* two hand/eye coordination tasks - to determine the time it takes to complete a specific motor-vision task. The assessment of hand-eye coordination will be conducted in the room where the medical examinations are conducted. The test results are reported as the time in seconds to compete the tasks.

* echocardiogram test


Functional Movement Screen

This new exam was added to the protocol in 2013. The Functional Movement Screen (FMS) requires the prospects to perform seven specific joint tests that are graded on a 1-3 scale, with a highest possible total score of 21. Research shows that a score of less than 14 might indicate a risk of future injury. The test includes a deep squat, hurdle step, lunges, shoulder mobility movements, leg raises and trunk stability and pushups. It takes about 15 minutes to complete and I refer to it as a screen and not a test,The results could ultimately reveal imbalances and symmetry deficiencies in movements of the body.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don't know for sure that it's still the case, but it used to be that even the follow-ups were done by the same independent physicians the NHL brought in for the Combine. The actual blank medical forms complete with names of physicians for 2007 are available online.

 

[Sawdalite]

It seems to me that Shero would have to have the best information available... and if possible, hands on... before he can gamble the rare #1OA that he has lucked into. If there is a shadow of a doubt that he and his people cannot realistically push aside on Nolan, can Shero risk it and leave a great Player such as Nico for one of his arch rivals, and Metro opponent?

On the other hand... If Shero & co. can safely determine that both Players are basically on the same plane health-wise going forward, can he pass up the bigger Center that has been wowing the collective Scouts for a much longer period of development?

... IMO Hextall can better gamble... unless he has clear facts that Nolan can be susceptible to major health concerns going forward... If Nolan falls into his lap... with his track record , size and Ratings... I could see him feeling confident following suit and not even thinking of going off the board... but available to listen to all offers that would bring him great return PLUS a good and still high Selection... say 3rd, 4th or possibly 5th... but only biting if it is an offer that he cannot refuse or he has some bad news on Nolan's injury situation.

It seems to be a damned if you do and damned if you don't with Nolan... If he is deemed in good shape health-wise, Jersey may well grab him... if he doesn't Hextall is on the clock... Actually, Nico falling to us is not a bad thing at all... Nolan however could be, if there are lingering medical concerns.

I want Nolan... but in the end I want whomever is better for the Flyers going forward... My only solace now is that Shero is on edge a gazillion times more than we are on this.

 

[The Madrigal]

The Flyers need to take whomever the Devils don't take, period.

 

[Rebels57]

The Flyers need to take whomever the Devils don't take, period.

Value add comment.

10/10

Would read again.

 

[Sawdalite]

Value add comment.

10/10

Would read again.

Would you recommend that Post to your friends and others?

 

[Rebels57]

Would you recommend that Post to your friends and others?

Indeed. I liked, share, subscribed and turned on notifications

 

[TheWolfOfBroadStreet]

The Flyers need to take whomever the Devils don't take, period.

Well said lol

 

[jabba2]

It doesnt matter. NJ is picking first. At least we dont have the 3rd pick. imagine that torture.

 

[Sawdalite]

It doesnt matter. NJ is picking first. At least we dont have the 3rd pick. imagine that torture.

The First and Third Selections actually cause the GMs to have to think. haha

 

[Snotbubbles]

I agree how do they pass on the guy that has been the consensus #1 pick for the past couple of years and justify it to their fan base. If they take Patrick and Nico becomes a star on their rival team Shero can at least say many experts had Patrick as the top pick in justifying it not so easy the other way around.

I guess the answer to that can only be answered on how they view Zacha and McCleod. Are they potential #1 centers going forward? Zacha is 6'3" and McCleod is 6'2". If they are, do you want another big centerman or a more offensively dynamic guy that can slide out to wing if you need.

 

[Tripod]

I guess the answer to that can only be answered on how they view Zacha and McCleod. Are they potential #1 centers going forward? Zacha is 6'3" and McCleod is 6'2". If they are, do you want another big centerman or a more offensively dynamic guy that can slide out to wing if you need.

Who knows what Mgt think, but NJ fans think Zacha is going to be a LW and not a C. And that was before winning the lottery.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

Who knows what Mgt think, but NJ fans think Zacha is going to be a LW and not a C. And that was before winning the lottery.

This is obviously all baseless speculation, but here's what I'm thinking Shero has to do.

It has to be Patrick IF: Patrick gets a clean bill of health and there are any doubts Hischier will not stick at center at the next level.

It has to be Hischier IF: There is any doubt about Patrick's health.

If there are no concerns about Patrick's health or Hischier's ability to play center, I think they go Nico. Due to the fact that Shero and Castron have been stressing speed and skill and Nico fits the bill better.

 

[Snotbubbles]

This is obviously all baseless speculation, but here's what I'm thinking Shero has to do.

It has to be Patrick IF: Patrick gets a clean bill of health and there are any doubts Hischier will not stick at center at the next level.

It has to be Hischier IF: There is any doubt about Patrick's health.

If there are no concerns about Patrick's health or Hischier's ability to play center, I think they go Nico. Due to the fact that Shero and Castron have been stressing speed and skill and Nico fits the bill better.

Patrick should get a clean bill of health at the combine. It's not like he has injuries that are degenerative. The problem with him is that he seems to accumulate injuries year after year. Some guys, for whatever reason just never seem to get hurt and some guys seem to always get hurt. Again, it's nothing long-term degenerative but man, either the guy is peanut brittle or he's just had some incredibly bad luck. Either way, the health question won't be answered until he's put a couple injury-free years in the league.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

Patrick should get a clean bill of health at the combine. It's not like he has injuries that are degenerative. The problem with him is that he seems to accumulate injuries year after year. Some guys, for whatever reason just never seem to get hurt and some guys seem to always get hurt. Again, it's nothing long-term degenerative but man, either the guy is peanut brittle or he's just had some incredibly bad luck. Either way, the health question won't be answered until he's put a couple injury-free years in the league.

Yeah, that's the thing I'm trying to weigh. There is something to be said about all those soft tissue injuries at such a young age. However, how much stock should we put into it if none of them should impact him down the road? I will say that I couldn't care less about the two broken collarbones he suffered at 13 and 14 years old.