Nico v. Nolan

[Striiker]

Think about Patrick, good shooter, more of a scorer, good defensively, good size. Say he is a 60 point guy.

Now think of Jeff Carter. Sounds pretty similar. Then look at Carter's points the last few years: 66, 62, 62, 50. Would we be happy with LA's version of Carter? You bet.

Ryan Kesler: last 2 seasons 58, 53 points.

Toews: last 3 seasons 58, 58, 66 points.

Point is, if that C is really good defensively, adding 55-65 points on top of that gives you a very good player. Nolan might not end up as the highest point guy from the draft class, but he could have the most impact on a team winning and losing.

I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would complain.

But yeah, I agree with what you said here. I was more talking about people expecting 70+ points. If we get a Carter-like player, Id be thrilled, but Im sure some would see that as a failure and call for his head.

 

[Tripod]

I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would complain.

But yeah, I agree with what you said here. I was more talking about people expecting 70+ points. If we get a Carter-like player, Id be thrilled, but Im sure some would see that as a failure and call for his head.

I agree that people need to lower their expectations. I just wanted to show that even by doing so, we could get a very good, impact player that "only" gets 60 points.

 

[MillerTime2181]

Based on what I'm seeing both on here and on the main board, people are going to end up disappointed. Expectations are a bit high.

I'm obviously hoping for a nearly PPG 1C too, but it's far from guaranteed, even with a top 2 pick.

Before the season Bobby Mac was saying that he talked to scouts who said that Patrick had the potential to be a 1C but was probably more likely to end up a solid 2C. And that's before his injury issues this year. Hischier also has potential to be a 1C, but you never know with any player.

This is why as exciting as it all is, it is a bit disappointing this couldn't have happened in either of the last two years. I've read reports saying both players project as 2nd line centers, which would be very disappointing if the's their ceiling. That being said, going from 13 to 2 is huge. Hopefully, whoever the Flyers get can ultimately be the #1 guy here for a while, as others have said we may not get another chance for a long while. Prime Carter would be a great player to have, but I understand if people would be disappointed. When you pick one or two overall you expect an elite franchise guy no matter the position.

 

[The Burdened]

Wait, high expectations?

Has there been a turn in public opinion on HF in the last 10 days (legit asking)?

Last I read this is the worst draft since Vietnam

 

[Striiker]

I agree that people need to lower their expectations. I just wanted to show that even by doing so, we could get a very good, impact player that "only" gets 60 points.

Yep... unfortunately this will probably need to be reposted many times in upcoming years.

This is why as exciting as it all is, it is a bit disappointing this couldn't have happened in either of the last two years. I've read reports saying both players project as 2nd line centers, which would be very disappointing if the's their ceiling. That being said, going from 13 to 2 is huge. Hopefully, whoever the Flyers get can ultimately be the #1 guy here for a while, as others have said we may not get another chance for a long while. Prime Carter would be a great player to have, but I understand if people would be disappointed. When you pick one or two overall you expect an elite franchise guy no matter the position.

It really is our luck that when when we finally get some draft lottery luck, it's in the weakest top 2 in years...

I mean, we can't really complain and I'd obviously rather 2 than 13, but it still kinda sucks.

Wait, high expectations?

Has there been a turn in public opinion on HF in the last 10 days (legit asking)?

Last I read this is the worst draft since Vietnam

I've seen people of various fanbases saying how they don't care which one their team gets and that they'll be happy with a 70-80 point player who [insert attribute of Patrick or Hischier here]. It just seems like some people expect any 1 or 2 overall to be a PPG, or close to, player.

 

[Rebels57]

There is no reason to think the 2nd overall pick in this draft cant be a future 1C. Our current 1C was drafted 22nd overall.

Lets just be happy we got a top 2 pick without tanking.

 

[bauer]

I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would complain.

But yeah, I agree with what you said here. I was more talking about people expecting 70+ points. If we get a Carter-like player, Id be thrilled, but Im sure some would see that as a failure and call for his head.

i kinda feel like 70 would be Patrick's ceiling, and 60 his floor. for him to hit 70, i think a lot of things would have to go right, he'd have to at least be playing with one star winger. like if Konecny turns into a 30 goal sniper in a few years and the two had great chemistry, then 70 could be doable. linemates mean a lot. and even still, we're talking years down the road. i think 50-60 would be a more reasonable projection for the next 2-3 years.

 

[TheKingPin]

I never really had the thought that it's unfourtunate this didn't happen last year or the year before. I do get it though as those are some incredible players. I'd be very happy with a 60 pt player with great D play. We are getting that for free which is huge. I thought we'd be a cup contender in 2-3 years. That is stronger now and may be been a year earlier. I really haven't seen either play but I don't think you can really say what eithers ceiling is. They will be coming to a team with great wingers and offensive dmen. All with zero pressure. A player can really flourish under those conditions.

 

[Striiker]

i kinda feel like 70 would be Patrick's ceiling, and 60 his floor. for him to hit 70, i think a lot of things would have to go right, he'd have to at least be playing with one star winger. like if Konecny turns into a 30 goal sniper in a few years and the two had great chemistry, then 70 could be doable. linemates mean a lot. and even still, we're talking years down the road. i think 50-60 would be a more reasonable projection for the next 2-3 years.

Even that is pretty lofty unless he somehow either gets on the top PP unit or the 2nd unit drastically improves.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

People just have whacked out expectations when it comes the draft in general. These past two drafts haven't helped that.

I just look at this way. At #13 we were getting a bigger question mark in a prospect than we are now #2.

 

[Rebels57]

Even that is pretty lofty unless he somehow either gets on the top PP unit or the 2nd unit drastically improves.

With a new PP coach coming in, no reason to think Patrick/Hischier cant find their way on to PP1 by their sophomore seasons.

 

[Flyerfan13]

I look at it as we are adding a highly skilled forward that is probably our best prospect to a skilled and deep prospect pool desperately in need of 1 and it didn't cost us any of the kids or draft picks.

 

[Magua]

With a new PP coach coming in, no reason to think Patrick/Hischier cant find their way on to PP1 by their sophomore seasons.

I don't see that tbh. The top unit has enough top PP talent as is, some of the best at every position. Doubt either player would come in and knock one out in the immediate future anyway, beyond some experimenting during a cold streak.

Patrick is definitely a tougher fit on the top unit than Hischier. Really the only spot available in the near distant future is likely Schenn's. Lindblom makes the most sense there in a similar role. Nico could do it too, but it might be a waste of his talents. They could switch to an overload set-up with Nico/Jake out there together on the right side. That left half wall that Patrick plays is occupied for the next 5 years at least. Right now I think it makes more sense to let either run the second unit for the next couple years. With all the d-men too who are great PP guys, I really have no idea what the units will look like in 2-3 years. So many bodies it's crazy.

 

[Rebels57]

I don't see that tbh. The top unit has enough top PP talent as is, some of the best at every position. Doubt either player would come in and knock one out in the immediate future anyway, beyond some experimenting during a cold streak.

Patrick is definitely a tougher fit on the top unit than Hischier. Really the only spot available in the near distant future is likely Schenn's. Lindblom makes the most sense there in a similar role. Nico could do it too, but it might be a waste of his talents. They could switch to an overload set-up with Nico/Jake out there together on the right side. That left half wall that Patrick plays is occupied for the next 5 years at least. Right now I think it makes more sense to let either run the second unit for the next couple years. With all the d-men too who are great PP guys, I really have no idea what the units will look like in 2-3 years. So many bodies it's crazy.

Im operating under the assumption that with a different PP coach we will see a different systems and possibly personel. I also think the cream rises to the top and by their 2nd season, 2OA will force their way onto the 1st unit. But as long as PP1 succeeds I dont care who is on it.

 

[Flyerfan13]

Im operating under the assumption that with a different PP coach we will see a different systems and possibly personel. I also think the cream rises to the top and by their 2nd season, 2OA will force their way onto the 1st unit. But as long as PP1 succeeds I dont care who is on it.

With the additions next season pp2 may actually be relevant. they could have a nice mix of skill guys there also that can contribute a few goals.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Just wait until Scott Gordon is coaching the PP next year.

 

[Striiker]

With a new PP coach coming in, no reason to think Patrick/Hischier cant find their way on to PP1 by their sophomore seasons.

The problem is, who do they replace?

I don't believe either of them play Simmonds or Schenns spot so it would have to be either Giroux (no chance in hell) or Voracek removed from the top unit.

 

[Flyerfan13]

Just wait until Scott Gordon is coaching the PP next year.

That is a horrible thought.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I look at it as we are adding a highly skilled forward that is probably our best prospect to a skilled and deep prospect pool desperately in need of 1 and it didn't cost us any of the kids or draft picks.

As usual, I completely agree with you. That defense is going to be an amplifier for the skills of all of our forwards and is really the key to this whole thing, I think. Lindblom coming over, and Konecny being a season wiser - there are lots of pieces around Nico or Nolan. We are going to create match-up havoc for other teams and I love that.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Just wait until Scott Gordon is coaching the PP next year.

Eww, that's gross.

 

[Tripod]

With Konecny, Lindblom, #2, and Povy, that's a lot of youthful talent for the 2nd unit. Let them develop chemistry and see if they can make that unit legit.

 

[Striiker]

With Konecny, Lindblom, #2, and Povy, that's a lot of youthful talent for the 2nd unit. Let them develop chemistry and see if they can make that unit legit.

Only problem with that is, even if that unit is good together, they're still the second unit and will have pretty limited time to actually play on the PP. There just isn't enough time to go around.

 

[Magua]

Only problem with that is, even if that unit is good together, they're still the second unit and will have pretty limited time to actually play on the PP. There just isn't enough time to go around.

Second unit still got ~1:50 minutes a game though on the PP compared to ~3:40 for PP1.

 

[Grare]

Only problem with that is, even if that unit is good together, they're still the second unit and will have pretty limited time to actually play on the PP. There just isn't enough time to go around.

While true I've felt PP1 comes off pretty early sometimes. I recall a lot of instances where there was a whistle a minute into the PP and the 2nd unit came on (and they were horrible)

Edit good stats above. So about averaged a full powerplay per game

 

[Striiker]

Second unit still got ~1:50 minutes a game though on the PP compared to ~3:40 for PP1.

Still a fairly big difference. If we're hoping for the pick to score 60+ points per year they're probably going to need first unit type time.

Although I guess if the PP is scoring it doesn't matter too much who it is.