Recalled/Assigned: Nicklas Jensen sent down

[pitseleh]

The idea that coaches want to win isn't inconsistent with the idea that coaches are not always optimal decision makers.

 

[Hodgy]

The idea that coaches want to win isn't inconsistent with the idea that coaches are not always optimal decision makers.

True, although we said the same thing about his Swedish coach too. And, some even said the same thing about his OHL coach. How many coaches does a player have to go through before it is the player's fault and not the coach's?

To be clear, I am not suggesting Jensen is a bad prospect or that he is being utilized in the best manner. Just making a general comment with respect to your statement.

 

[Alflives*]

What you say is completely true. However, you're missing the fact that Arneil is completely incompetent.

Funny, but is this not simply an extension of the Canuck's current philosophy? Younger players must 'prove' their defensive play is acceptable, before getting top-line minutes. Is this not the biggest reason why Hodgson was traded? No matter how Gillis publicly spun that one.

Would the Sedins have had the same 'rope' in their first years under this current regime?

 

[pitseleh]

True, although we said the same thing about his Swedish coach too. And, some even said the same thing about his OHL coach. How many coaches does a player have to go through before it is the player's fault and not the coach's?

I don't follow prospects closely enough to know what's going on with Jensen, but as a general comment I don't even think that having multiple coaches dismiss a player is necessarily determinative. There have been too many players cast off from multiple teams only to flourish once given an opportunity to think that coaches' decisions are anywhere near perfect.

That's not to say that coaches aren't right a lot of the time, but in this specific case where a player has only played a handful of games for a coach, there is tendency to go with what you know even where there is a decent likelihood that the other player is better.

Analysis of coaching across multiple sports shows that coaches in general have a tendency deviate from optimal strategy in order to limit downside risk. It's loss aversion with a twist.

 

[Wisp]

You make it sound like the Chicago coach is punishing Jensen, and doing so, at the team's potential to win. That makes no sense. Coaches want to win, and the Chicago Wolve's coach is playing those guys who give his team the best chance to win. It anything, the Canuck's management is insisting Jensen stays in the line-up, even those his play doesn't deserve it.

You're making a lot of assumptions with my meaning. Let me spell it out.

1. Jensen's situation in Chicago is one where its not reasonable to expect him to succeed offensively.
2. That team is fighting for their lives. Now's not the time to expect newbies to get a fair shot, especially with him, who still has three years on his ELC.
3. I don't think the coach is punishing anybody, and the philosophy behind Arniel's decisions are sound (though in practice I think the choices he makes are poor).

My point is Jensen has shown good progression so I'm not sure what the problem is? Are you and Hodgy trying to ring the bust alarm or something?

edit: Hodgy, I never said a think about Jensen's junior or swedish coaches. Maybe you shouldn't make 'general comments' if you're going to attribute quotes to the wrong people.

 

[Alflives*]

You're making a lot of assumptions with my meaning. Let me spell it out.

1. Jensen's situation in Chicago is one where its not reasonable to expect him to succeed offensively.
2. That team is fighting for their lives. Now's not the time to expect newbies to get a fair shot, especially with him, who still has three years on his ELC.
3. I don't think the coach is punishing anybody, and the philosophy behind Arniel's decisions are sound (though in practice I think the choices he makes are poor).

My point is Jensen has shown good progression so I'm not sure what the problem is? Are you and Hodgy trying to ring the bust alarm or something?

edit: Hodgy, I never said a think about Jensen's junior or swedish coaches. Maybe you shouldn't make 'general comments' if you're going to attribute quotes to the wrong people.

A guy at his age with his size and skill set is by no means a bust. I agree with you that the coach is not punishing anybody. My point is Jensen is not yet good enough to help the team win in any other role. If he was, the coach would play him there.

 

[Wisp]

A guy at his age with his size and skill set is by no means a bust. I agree with you that the coach is not punishing anybody. My point is Jensen is not yet good enough to help the team win in any other role. If he was, the coach would play him there.

Well... yes.

 

[racerjoe]

If he could help the team or not, I am not sure. But ask anyone who has been watching the Wolves this season, and the coach has constantly leaned on guys that have been very bad. He has been force feeding Haydar minutes, despite him constantly being one of the teams worst players.

He did it to JS earlier. who in the second month of the season, was probably the best player for the wolves, and was still given terrible linemates and put on the second PP unit... while Ebbett was given the number one centre duties.

 

[Tiranis]

A guy at his age with his size and skill set is by no means a bust. I agree with you that the coach is not punishing anybody. My point is Jensen is not yet good enough to help the team win in any other role. If he was, the coach would play him there.

Haydar isn't good enough to help the team win either, in fact he's costing the team points on a regular basis yet until recently he was playing top 3 minutes on the team.

 

[shortshorts]

Funny, but is this not simply an extension of the Canuck's current philosophy? Younger players must 'prove' their defensive play is acceptable, before getting top-line minutes. Is this not the biggest reason why Hodgson was traded? No matter how Gillis publicly spun that one.

Would the Sedins have had the same 'rope' in their first years under this current regime?

Firstly, I firmly believe that Hodgson was traded because he wanted out. I'm sure the Canucks would have lived with Hodgson's defensive woes if not for his request.

Secondly, while I do not extensively follow the wolves, how do you explain Haydar's defensive play if you are using the "defensively accountable" logic?

 

[racerjoe]

Firstly, I firmly believe that Hodgson was traded because he wanted out. I'm sure the Canucks would have lived with Hodgson's defensive woes if not for his request.

Secondly, while I do not extensively follow the wolves, how do you explain Haydar's defensive play if you are using the "defensively accountable" logic?

I can confirm he asked for a trade, it happened when he was in junior.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

True, although we said the same thing about his Swedish coach too. And, some even said the same thing about his OHL coach. How many coaches does a player have to go through before it is the player's fault and not the coach's?

To be clear, I am not suggesting Jensen is a bad prospect or that he is being utilized in the best manner. Just making a general comment with respect to your statement.

Funny, but is this not simply an extension of the Canuck's current philosophy? Younger players must 'prove' their defensive play is acceptable, before getting top-line minutes. Is this not the biggest reason why Hodgson was traded? No matter how Gillis publicly spun that one.

Would the Sedins have had the same 'rope' in their first years under this current regime?

Both these posts are true in themselves, but it is strange that AV has actually treated Jensen the opposite when up with the Canucks.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Lets all agree to never talk about Hodgson again. Kassian brings something cry baby cody couldnt bring.. and thats a nice warm cup of shut the **** up and do your job.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Im in no way saying Jensen is a bust.. Im just saying he isn't impressing atm.

He also played for struggling team (AIK) in the SEL and also played regularly in the bottom 6 and still contributed.

I don't know if he has an attitude problem or not, but something could suggest it.

I also don't know if Arniel could give him better circumstances, admitted I don't watch allot of Wolves games, all im saying is that given Jensen's talent the output imo is not so impressive.

I'll also admit im abit on the fence with Jensen.

 

[shortshorts]

Im in no way saying Jensen is a bust.. Im just saying he isn't impressing atm.

He also played for struggling team (AIK) in the SEL and also played regularly in the bottom 6 and still contributed.

I don't know if he has an attitude problem or not, but something could suggest it.

I also don't know if Arniel could give him better circumstances, admitted I don't watch allot of Wolves games, all im saying is that given Jensen's talent the output imo is not so impressive.

I'll also admit im abit on the fence with Jensen.

"I don't know if he has attitude problems or not, but I'll just post a super ambiguous comment insinuating that he does have attitude problems."

 

[Tiranis]

Im in no way saying Jensen is a bust.. Im just saying he isn't impressing atm.

He also played for struggling team (AIK) in the SEL and also played regularly in the bottom 6 and still contributed.

I don't know if he has an attitude problem or not, but something could suggest it.

I also don't know if Arniel could give him better circumstances, admitted I don't watch allot of Wolves games, all im saying is that given Jensen's talent the output imo is not so impressive.

I'll also admit im abit on the fence with Jensen.

You're speculating about attitude issues where there are none. He has been working hard, playing solid defense and doing his best despite being placed in a 3rd and 4th line role with no PP time. No player is going to score a ton in that role.

 

[QuietContrarian]

"I don't know if he has attitude problems or not, but I'll just post a super ambiguous comment insinuating that he does have attitude problems."

Say's the person choosing to nitpick a small detail and then actually use his precious time to reply about only that one thing.

Well played sir

You're speculating about attitude issues where there are none. He has been working hard, playing solid defense and doing his best despite being placed in a 3rd and 4th line role with no PP time. No player is going to score a ton in that role.

Well you do watch more wolves games than I, so mine is just that, speculation, due to the many reports stating he has attitude problems But i'll take your word for it

About his production, I can certainly see your point, but c'mon 4pts in 16 games?

As I said, im on the fence about Jensen, but I wouldn't mind eating crow in that department

 

[Szechwan]

Say's the person choosing to nitpick a small detail and then actually use his precious time to reply about only that one thing.

Well played sir

If he didn't say something I would have. The last thing we need around here is people perpetuating rumours with zero evidence, we have the Vancouver media for that.

 

[QuietContrarian]

If he didn't say something I would have. The last thing we need around here is people perpetuating rumours with zero evidence, we have the Vancouver media for that.

Well I think you guys are putting way to much into it

As I have said before I have met Jensen on several occasions, and he seems a nice guy.

But there are reports of him being a little lazy and maybe a little arrogant. Albeit non official, but I never said that either.

All I said was, I don't know, WHICH I DON'T.. I wrote some things suggest he does, which some things do But I can see how it could be misleading.. And for that I will apologize.. But I will not be acused of perpetuating rumours. Which I am not, as I have in no way stated anything on the matter, and I have never stated that what I write is the difinite truth of all truths.

For the future, I will re-read what I post, before I do so.. Just to make sure im 100% clear with what I mean.

 

[shortshorts]

Say's the person choosing to nitpick a small detail and then actually use his precious time to reply about only that one thing.

Well played sir

That is not a minor detail. That is the major element of your post.

The other pieces of your post are actually completely irrelevant as they do not back-up your claim, nor do they compliment the information we do have coming in.

 

[QuietContrarian]

That is not a minor detail. That is the major element of your post.

The other pieces of your post are actually completely irrelevant as they do not back-up your claim, nor do they compliment the information we do have coming in.

Well let's agree to disagree then, shall we?

And put this thing to rest, I tried to explain myself in a nice way with no positive result..

My own fault I guess, sometimes I forget HF members tend to read whatever they want into things, and then completely dismiss everything else

Besides, this is a message board, I am allowed to speculate and put words to those speculations and opinions without having to defend myself towards antagonistic members..

I have my wife for that

PS: Don't take offense to my posts, it's all in good faith I don't take life to serious.