NHL unveils 20 greatest teams of all time

[Kranix]

Good to see Toews single-handedly willed his team on to this fine list.

 

[JaegerDice]

Good to see Toews single-handedly willed his team on to this fine list.

Ok, the Toews obsession is getting a little out of hand. Bringing him in completely unrelated thread, purely for the sake of a stale joke is just.... dumb.

 

[Soundwave]

Has to be one of the Gretzky-Oiler teams IMO.

Really think about it, they lost their best player/no.1 C (Gretzky), no.1 D (Coffey), and no.1 goalie for a season (Fuhr) and *still* won another Stanley Cup in 1990, lol.

I don't think any other team on the list would be able to say that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's a shame they decided to do this as a fan vote. The NHL has an opportunity with the Centennial to put out some quasi-definitive historical analysis, and they even went to the trouble of hiring people to do this sort of thing. An online poll is just a cheap end product and a missed opportunity to build a body of knowledge around this kind of subject.

Disappointed that they'd go this route.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

I would take off last year's penguins and put the 2013 Hawks above them, honestly.

Other then that, solid list.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Has to be one of the Gretzky-Oiler teams IMO.

Really think about it, they lost their best player/no.1 C (Gretzky), no.1 D (Coffey), and no.1 goalie for a season (Fuhr) and *still* won another Stanley Cup in 1990, lol.

I don't think any other team on the list would be able to say that.

Clearly their top players weren't that good

 

[Kirikanoir]

yes let's add teams that played in a 6 team league and never dealt with a salary cap . The fact the Pens and Blackhawks can play this dominance in a 30 team league with a cap is pretty amazing.

The list is supposed to be the 20 greatest teams of all time, not how they were built.

The Canadiens and all their teams and cups wouldn't exist in todays league.

the avalanche today would steamroll the best team from the 60's

And it`s exactly these kind of attitudes as to why this crappy list turned out the way it did.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Canucks 2011 not being on there is a bit of a surprise. Just because they were 1 game away from a Cup lol.

Hit #1 in almost every major category, multiple award winners (Selke, Hart, Art Ross, Jennings, President's Trophy).

Arguably the best season of the modern NHL.

Had a really good run, injuries did them in.

 

[The Panther]

Canucks 2011 not being on there is a bit of a surprise. Just because they were 1 game away from a Cup lol.

Hit #1 in almost every major category, multiple award winners (Selke, Hart, Art Ross, Jennings, President's Trophy).

Arguably the best season of the modern NHL.

Had a really good run, injuries did them in.

Did I just read that...?

 

[JaegerDice]

Canucks 2011 not being on there is a bit of a surprise. Just because they were 1 game away from a Cup lol.

Hit #1 in almost every major category, multiple award winners (Selke, Hart, Art Ross, Jennings, President's Trophy).

Arguably the best season of the modern NHL.

Had a really good run, injuries did them in.

lol, you're kidding right?

 

[tony d]

Not the worst list giving the voting bloc but it's a shame that no team before the 70's is on the list.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Injuries happen, most players are gimped in the playoffs, unless they're completely out then sure, an excuse there is fine. But man, you guys just can't let 2009 go at all huh.

2008 Wings were a good team, but ease up, your bias is clearly showing.

I like how you skipped over the general point and just had to take issue with the fact he brought up injuries as a passing opinion.

His overall point was correct. The 09 team was very good, but the 08 team was simply a better team by almost every single metric.

 

[Tripod]

The Flyers lost 5 Stanley Cup Finals to those teams....and a 6th to the 97 Red Wings which were a better team than the year after.

Every time Philly does make a SCF, they play the best team of that era, lots who were dynasties.

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't know how they left off teams from multiple dynasties that were some of the best the league has ever seen.

From the great Butch Goring:

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Did I just read that...?

Yes, post 2004 team. I think that's a decent time to judge the modern era given the rule changes since then.

I provided reasons why I believe that in my post. Ridicule isn't evidence to counter my claim.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

lol, you're kidding right?

What team had a better season post-2004? Enlighten me.

 

[TNT87]

I would take off last year's penguins and put the 2013 Hawks above them, honestly.

Other then that, solid list.

What a surprise.

 

[PK Cronin]

What team had a better season post-2004? Enlighten me.

Every team that won the cup.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Every team that won the cup.

No, I wrote season in my post.
Post-season, sure. It's not like that Canucks roster bombed in the playoffs though.

 

[nmbr_24]

· 2015-16 Pittsburgh Penguins
· 2009-10 Chicago Blackhawks
· 2001-02 Detroit Red Wings
· 2000-01 Colorado Avalanche
· 1997-98 Detroit Red Wings
· 1993-94 New York Rangers
· 1991-92 Pittsburgh Penguins
· 1990-91 Pittsburgh Penguins
· 1988-89 Calgary Flames
· 1987-88 Edmonton Oilers
· 1986-87 Edmonton Oilers
· 1984-85 Edmonton Oilers
· 1983-84 Edmonton Oilers
· 1982-83 New York Islanders
· 1981-82 New York Islanders
· 1979-80 New York Islanders
· 1977-78 Montreal Canadiens
· 1976-77 Montreal Canadiens
· 1975-76 Montreal Canadiens
· 1969-1970 Boston Bruins

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/05/18/nhl-unveils-20-greatest-teams-of-all-time/

I think taking the 2015-2016 Penguins over the 1973-1974 Flyers is just a lousy choice and I dislike the Flyers.

 

[Voight]

15-16 Pens... really? No offence but post-lockout wise I'd put the 2007 Ducks ahead of them for one.

 

[Passchendaele]

the avalanche today would steamroll the best team from the 60's

If Isaac Newton was transported today from his time, he wouldn't know how to use a computer, therefore, I'm smarter than Newton.

 

[JaegerDice]

What team had a better season post-2004? Enlighten me.

Well, for starters, looking back all teams in every season from 2008 (because that's when NHL started putting out the necessary data to calculate underlying numbers) to now, there isn't a single stat or performance metric that the 2011 Canucks are at the top of the list for.

They are 64th in Score-Adjusted CF% (5v5 Possession).
They are 88th in Score-Adjusted SF% (5v5 Shot differential).
The are 177th in SCF% (5v5 Scoring Chance differential).

They are 162nd in xGF% (Expected 5v5 goal differential. http://www.corsica.hockey/blog/2016/03/03/shot-quality-and-expected-goals-part-i/This is a fairly new stat. You can ignore it if you like, but it's proven pretty damn good as far as quantifying quality of play)

They are 38th in 5v5 GF/Game.
They are 34th in 5v5 GA/Game.
They are 17th in 5v5 GF% (5v5 goal differential)

They are 21st in OA GF/Game (Goals for per game, including special-teams)
They are 9th in OA GA/Game (Goals against per game, including special-teams)
They are 4th in OA GF% (Goal differential including special teams)

All numbers/rankings are for the regular season and taken from Corsica.hockey, cause I don't want to include shootout goals. NHLs numbers will be different, rankings will be close to the same with a few deviations, though not including shootouts actually helps VAN2011 a bit.

All rankings out of 300 teams.





Now, the next argument might be 'ok, maybe they weren't absolutely tops in any category, but they were just great at almost everything'. And that is a better argument. But even by that measure, they're not the best team. Because there are quite a few teams that are better in more categories at once. For brevity's sake, let's just keep it to cup winners.


Better than VAN2011 in Score-Adjusted CF%

DET2008 (Rank 1)
LAK2014 (Rank 3)
CHI2010 (Rank 4)
LAK2012 (Rank 16)
CHI2013 (Rank 23)
CHI2015 (Rank 30)
PIT2016 (Rank 49)



Better than VAN2011 in Score-Adjusted SF%

DET2008 (Rank 1)
CHI2010 (Rank 2)
LAK2014 (Rank 4)
CHI2013 (Rank 12)
LAK2012 (Rank 24)
PIT2016 (Rank 35)
CHI2015 (Rank 59)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 SCF%

PIT2016 (Rank 6)
CHI2010 (Rank 16)
DET2008 (Rank 24)
LAK2014 (Rank 27)
LAK2012 (Rank 43)
CHI2013 (Rank 92)
PIT2009 (Rank 127)
CHI2015 (Rank 176)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 xGF%

DET2008 (Rank 3)
CHI2010 (Rank 7)
PIT2016 (Rank 9)
LAK2014 (RanK 14)
CHI2013 (Rank 45)
LAK2012 (RANK 54)
PIT2009 (Rank 124)
CHI2015 (Rank 139)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GF/G

CHI2013 (Rank 8)
CHI2010 (Rank 13)
PIT2009 (Rank 17)
BOS2011 (Rank 27)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GA/G

LAK2014 (Rank 2)
DET2008 (Rank 7)
CHI2013 (Rank 8)
LAK2012 (Rank 15)
BOS2011 (Rank 16)
CHI2015 (Rank 30)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GF%

CHI2013 (Rank 3)
BOS2011 (Rank 7)
DET2008 (Rank 8)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GF/G

CHI2010 (Rank 13)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GA/G

CHI2013 (Rank 2)
LAK2014 (Rank 3)
LAK 2012 (Rank 4)
DET 2008 (Rank 8)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GF%

CHI2013 (Rank 1)




Now, I'm not going to argue over which of these measures means most or least. I have my opinion, you can come to your own conclusions. However, the arguement that VAN2011 was the best team because they were the best over the most measures doesn't hold. Just among cup winners alone. And again, there were several teams that were better in a ton of areas that didn't win a cup.

It's unfortunate that Vancouver lost in the final to a worse team by many regards. And they were certainly one of, if not the best team in 2011. But from a historical view, looking back at the bulk of the cap era, they don't stand up as one of the best, let alone THE best regular season performance.

 

[McFlash]

Canucks 2011 not being on there is a bit of a surprise. Just because they were 1 game away from a Cup lol.

Hit #1 in almost every major category, multiple award winners (Selke, Hart, Art Ross, Jennings, President's Trophy).

Arguably the best season of the modern NHL.

Had a really good run, injuries did them in.

....yah the Canucks of 2011, making the top 20........I have finally heard it all....your joking right. Tell me your joking.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Well, for starters, looking back all teams in every season from 2008 (because that's when NHL started putting out the necessary data to calculate underlying numbers) to now, there isn't a single stat or performance metric that the 2011 Canucks are at the top of the list for.

They are 64th in Score-Adjusted CF% (5v5 Possession).
They are 88th in Score-Adjusted SF% (5v5 Shot differential).
The are 177th in SCF% (5v5 Scoring Chance differential).

They are 162nd in xGF% (Expected 5v5 goal differential. http://www.corsica.hockey/blog/2016/03/03/shot-quality-and-expected-goals-part-i/This is a fairly new stat. You can ignore it if you like, but it's proven pretty damn good as far as quantifying quality of play)

They are 38th in 5v5 GF/Game.
They are 34th in 5v5 GA/Game.
They are 17th in 5v5 GF% (5v5 goal differential)

They are 21st in OA GF/Game (Goals for per game, including special-teams)
They are 9th in OA GA/Game (Goals against per game, including special-teams)
They are 4th in OA GF% (Goal differential including special teams)

All numbers/rankings are for the regular season and taken from Corsica.hockey, cause I don't want to include shootout goals. NHLs numbers will be different, rankings will be close to the same with a few deviations, though not including shootouts actually helps VAN2011 a bit.

All rankings out of 300 teams.





Now, the next argument might be 'ok, maybe they weren't absolutely tops in any category, but they were just great at almost everything'. And that is a better argument. But even by that measure, they're not the best team. Because there are quite a few teams that are better in more categories at once. For brevity's sake, let's just keep it to cup winners.


Better than VAN2011 in Score-Adjusted CF%

DET2008 (Rank 1)
LAK2014 (Rank 3)
CHI2010 (Rank 4)
LAK2012 (Rank 16)
CHI2013 (Rank 23)
CHI2015 (Rank 30)
PIT2016 (Rank 49)



Better than VAN2011 in Score-Adjusted SF%

DET2008 (Rank 1)
CHI2010 (Rank 2)
LAK2014 (Rank 4)
CHI2013 (Rank 12)
LAK2012 (Rank 24)
PIT2016 (Rank 35)
CHI2015 (Rank 59)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 SCF%

PIT2016 (Rank 6)
CHI2010 (Rank 16)
DET2008 (Rank 24)
LAK2014 (Rank 27)
LAK2012 (Rank 43)
CHI2013 (Rank 92)
PIT2009 (Rank 127)
CHI2015 (Rank 176)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 xGF%

DET2008 (Rank 3)
CHI2010 (Rank 7)
PIT2016 (Rank 9)
LAK2014 (RanK 14)
CHI2013 (Rank 45)
LAK2012 (RANK 54)
PIT2009 (Rank 124)
CHI2015 (Rank 139)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GF/G

CHI2013 (Rank 8)
CHI2010 (Rank 13)
PIT2009 (Rank 17)
BOS2011 (Rank 27)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GA/G

LAK2014 (Rank 2)
DET2008 (Rank 7)
CHI2013 (Rank 8)
LAK2012 (Rank 15)
BOS2011 (Rank 16)
CHI2015 (Rank 30)



Better than VAN2011 in 5v5 GF%

CHI2013 (Rank 3)
BOS2011 (Rank 7)
DET2008 (Rank 8)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GF/G

CHI2010 (Rank 13)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GA/G

CHI2013 (Rank 2)
LAK2014 (Rank 3)
LAK 2012 (Rank 4)
DET 2008 (Rank 8)



Better than VAN2011 in All Situations GF%

CHI2013 (Rank 1)




Now, I'm not going to argue over which of these measures means most or least. I have my opinion, you can come to your own conclusions. However, the arguement that VAN2011 was the best team because they were the best over the most measures doesn't hold. Just among cup winners alone. And again, there were several teams that were better in a ton of areas that didn't win a cup.

It's unfortunate that Vancouver lost in the final to a worse team by many regards. And they were certainly one of, if not the best team in 2011. But from a historical view, looking back at the bulk of the cap era, they don't stand up as one of the best, let alone THE best regular season performance.

Hard to compare teams from different seasons. Rules change (I'm sure coach's challenge had an impact on scoring, for instance), scoring goes up and down during different eras (Benn winning Art Ross at just over PPG).

Canucks dominated the 2011 season like I have never seen in the NHL. They were #1, or top 3, in every major metric (goals for, goals against, power play %, PK %, wins, etc.). Relatively speaking (that is, relative to every other team in the league during their season), they are one of the best teams the NHL has seen post-2004.

You're comparing teams across multiple seasons. I'm comparing teams based on how they matched up with other teams during the same season, as it gives a more level playing field and is more objective on how they measure up to the rest of the NHL.