GDT: NHL Trade Deadline Thread

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be totally happy to trade a 1st for Zuccarello if the plan is to re-sign him and trade Kessel for futures this off-season. If not? Eh.

 

[Old Gregg]

Those Stadium Series helmets are... can we stop playing in these things

I actually like the helmets...

 

[SaucyCelly]

ES accounts for 80%+ of the game. So for starter's having player's who can score at ES is important. There's also the fact that not all PP time/positions are equal from team to team or even within one team.

Where things get murky is when your swap players who are not similar players (Kessel vs Saad/Zucker/etc). The skill level and the skill set's are not remotely close to each other. BUT that doesn't automatically mean you're a worse team.

Pro's:
- Much better two way play
- Younger and cheaper
- More of a 'give a ****' attitude/effort on a consistent basis

Neutral:
- Minimal difference at ES (you're talking about a handful of points over several seasons that are easily accounted for by the quality of the team/teammates each player has)

Con's:
- Much less skilled, which probably translates into a lesser ability to pull coverage from their centers
- Less ability to help on the PP (although this can be neutralized if we have someone else internally who can replace PK's role)

For me, my whole stance all along with regards to Kessel wasn't his point totals, but the fact that his playmaking abilities make Crosby/Malkin's lives easier offensively. But I have to say with how he's been playing recently, even I'm starting to have concerns. I do not want to be less skilled, and going from Kessel to Zucker/Saad makes us less skilled. But with what we're currently seeing from Kessel, getting less skilled, but a more consistent effort and better 2 way game might be the way to go.

Taking away Kessel's 42 PP points last year. 50 points at ES.
Saad had 35 Points total last year. 34 at ES.

I get that ES is a majority of the game, but he still scores at a higher rate 5v5 than Saad.

Saad is only 800k cheaper, which isn't a whole lot of savings.

Saad is better 2-way, Kessel is a PP specialist.
Saad played last year on Toew's line, so I wouldn't say the quality is terribly less there. Blackhawk's as a whole sucked though.

Regardless of what people say about not needing to fill Kessel's point totals, we would have to get in the neighborhood. Specially with games last night losing 4-0. If Saad is there, maybe the score changes to 2-0, this is still a loss. I will agree that Phil has been dog**** lately but its also not a reason to get the opposite player, with mediocre stats, that plays better defense.

 

[66-30-33]

I'd be totally happy to trade a 1st for Zuccarello if the plan is to re-sign him and trade Kessel for futures this off-season. If not? Eh.

Or Dzingel if we plan to re-sign him.

 

[Andy99]

Those Stadium Series helmets are... can we stop playing in these things

Super cringy...we look like a USFL football team...

 

[SaucyCelly]

Did the Caps lose their third?

No they lost a second....

and last time I checked 2 comes before 3. Unless they changed something and didn't tell me

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

The thing is we do not need any of them to "take any sort of significant leap". We need them to grow a little and become a little better next season then they were/are this season, and if we can get that from several of them, then we're in a much better spot next season then we were this season.

At the end of the day, these are all depth player's and if we NEED them to take significant steps to be a good team, we're in deep trouble.

But we're fighting just to make the playoffs as it stands. If they all get slightly better as a collective, I can agree that would make some sort of a difference. A significant one that elevates us to at least firmly in the middle of top 8 somewhere? I personally don't think so based one those names and our best players just a tick less impactful as we go along here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Or Dzingel if we plan to re-sign him.

I'm not as high on Dzingel as other people are, I wouldn't be happy with that trade. Zuccarello is a proven 55 point winger who would fit like a glove with Crosby. He's also defensively responsible and kills penalties regularly. I'm a lot more comfortable with trading a 1st for Zuccarello because I view Zuccarello to be a much better player.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Right that’s what they gave up for Hagelin.

2nd rounder is what JR traded for Hainsey.

Hainsey wasn’t and still isn’t a bottom pairing defensemen on one of the worst teams in the league. Jensen is.

 

[Turin]

No they lost a second....

and last time I checked 2 comes before 3. Unless they changed something and didn't tell me

That wasn’t the question. The point is that the odds in any round after 1 are small. And you have to develop them. Caps got a decent player trying to win now.

 

[Turin]

Hainsey wasn’t and still isn’t a bottom pairing defensemen on one of the worst teams in the league. Jensen is.

A bit like how Johnson is apparently not a bottom pair (or lower) D either I suppose

 

[66-30-33]

I'm not as high on Dzingel as other people are, I wouldn't be happy with that trade. Zuccarello is a proven 55 point winger who would fit like a glove with Crosby. He's also defensively responsible and kills penalties regularly. I'm a lot more comfortable with trading a 1st for Zuccarello because I view Zuccarello to be a much better player.

Well he def is a good playmaker, can set up Jake/Crosby well. I'd offer a 1st and maybe Pearson for Zucc (50%), and a prospect.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Nashville, Boston, and Toronto are inquiring into Kreider (as reported by Larry Brooks...grain of salt), we sure as hell ought to be.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Kessel is moved before the draft, but I do think he's gone by puck drop next October. I hope JR is ready for a busy summer. Not only does he have the usual work of keeping up with the league around him, but he's got a mess of his own making to clean up in Jack Johnson.

 

[66-30-33]

If Nashville, Boston, and Toronto are inquiring into Kreider (as reported by Larry Brooks...grain of salt), we sure as hell ought to be.

Imagine we iced a Kreider-Malkin-Zucc 2nd line.

 

[SaucyCelly]

That wasn’t the question. The point is that the odds in any round after 1 are small. And you have to develop them. Caps got a decent player trying to win now.

And your point was second rounders chances of making the NHL on a regular basis are low, I gave 4 additional examples, plus that of letang and teddy b. There are 6 people that have been drafted in the 2nd or beyond by our team (this doesn't even look at any other NHL team) that are better than a bottom pairing D.

 

[Riptide]

Taking away Kessel's 42 PP points last year. 50 points at ES.
Saad had 35 Points total last year. 34 at ES.

I get that ES is a majority of the game, but he still scores at a higher rate 5v5 than Saad.

Saad is only 800k cheaper, which isn't a whole lot of savings.

Saad is better 2-way, Kessel is a PP specialist.
Saad played last year on Toew's line, so I wouldn't say the quality is terribly less there. Blackhawk's as a whole sucked though.

Regardless of what people say about not needing to fill Kessel's point totals, we would have to get in the neighborhood. Specially with games last night losing 4-0. If Saad is there, maybe the score changes to 2-0, this is still a loss. I will agree that Phil has been dog**** lately but its also not a reason to get the opposite player, with mediocre stats, that plays better defense.

That's one season, when Saad yes had a poor season, but was also playing on one of the worst teams in the league vs Kessel having a career year on one of the top teams in the league. Take a bigger sample size (3, 4, 5 years) and suddenly the difference is pretty minimal. Then you start adding in age, contract, two way play, physical game and things get murkier.

14/15-18/19
PK: 389 games, 205 ES pts
BS: 383 games, 198 ES pts

16/17-18-19
PK: 225 games, 127 ES pts
BS: 223 games, 112 ES pts

Look, I'm not saying that this is a move I'd do as I am a big fan of having other skilled player's on this team. But I think it's a lot closer then what you're suggesting.

Having someone like Saad for example also open's up the options of being able to move Hornqvist in the future if we felt the need to do so. Currently we have no one internally who is going to replace him. Bottom line, there's a lot more that should go into this then just points.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

And your point was second rounders chances of making the NHL on a regular basis are low, I gave 4 additional examples, plus that of letang and teddy b. There are 6 people that have been drafted in the 2nd or beyond by our team (this doesn't even look at any other NHL team) that are better than a bottom pairing D.

how many picks in that time frame though?

 

[Riptide]

But we're fighting just to make the playoffs as it stands. If they all get slightly better as a collective, I can agree that would make some sort of a difference. A significant one that elevates us to at least firmly in the middle of top 8 somewhere? I personally don't think so based one those names and our best players just a tick less impactful as we go along here.

And a huge reason for that is Malkin having (or had anyway) 3 ES goals from Nov 1st until a few weeks ago (it was a span of 41 games). And we were missing our #3D and more importantly our 2nd best PMD for essentially the entire season. The issue for us isn't that our depth player's haven't been good enough but that some of our top player's have sucked. Could we use more depth scoring? Sure - who couldn't? But we'll see a much bigger improvement over how our season goes next year by having a more consistent Malkin/Kessel and a healthy Schultz then we will by seeing significant gains by any one prospect/young kid.

 

[ColePens]

Imagine we iced a Kreider-Malkin-Zucc 2nd line.

Cool they'd still come down and score on us.

 

[mpp9]

So Columbus now has two forwards who kill us. And the Caps added a D-man we really could have used.

Sweet.

 

[66-30-33]

Cool they'd still come down and score on us.

Jack Johnson Come On DOWN!

 

[66-30-33]

So Columbus now has two forwards who kill us. And the Caps added a D-man we really could have used.

Sweet.

Just wait until they trade for Brassard.

 

[3074326]

I got a lot more tired or Brandon Saad when he was in Columbus than I am of Kessel. Kessel is clearly on another level. I think moving Kessel for Saad makes our team worse, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

So Columbus now has two forwards who kill us. And the Caps added a D-man we really could have used.

Sweet.