League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Season Edition - Vol. 1

[CapitalsCupReality]

Its not going to be possible to keep 3 straight early outs as a higher seed away from the long reputation built up by the team and accented by the first 3 years of Trotz. The Caps have either gotten past flame out status with playoff series wins or they havent. If they crash and burn again this season the Cup run looks like a flash in the pan

newsflash.....Cup runs usually ARE flashes in the pan.

I just don’t see this as a chokers angle anymore. Too much parity.

 

[twabby]

It was fair. They blew BIG series leads. They lost to far lesser teams. That has not been the case the past couple of years. They were irreparably injured in 2019 and were outcoached in the bubble.

I think it's an odd side-note that they've blown some series leads, perhaps more than other teams in the NHL, but I think it's more incidental than something about the team that predisposed them to choke.

Maybe the only series I think they blew, at least in the Ovechkin era, was in 2010. But even then it took a historically good goaltending performance on one side and a really bad one on the other side to make it possible. It happens. Every other team they lost to was probably equally as good, if not better.

2008: Flyers, probably an even match
2009: Penguins, they were a much better team
2010: Canadiens, the one series I might agree they blew
2011: Lightning, a better team
2012: Rangers, a better team
2013: Rangers, about equal
2015: Rangers, about equal
2016: Penguins, a better team
2017: Penguins, about equal
2019: Hurricanes, about equal
2020: Islanders, a better team

And they even beat some teams that I'd say were probably better: 2012 in particular against the Bruins, and 2018 the Penguins, Lightning, and Knights were probably all better teams on paper.

The point is parity has been high for most of the Ovechkin era.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It was fair. They blew BIG series leads. They lost to far lesser teams. That has not been the case the past couple of years. They were irreparably injured in 2019 and were outcoached in the bubble.

yep, this.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think it's an odd side-note that they've blown some series leads, perhaps more than other teams in the NHL, but I think it's more incidental than something about the team that predisposed them to choke.

Maybe the only series I think they blew, at least in the Ovechkin era, was in 2010. But even then it took a historically good goaltending performance on one side and a really bad one on the other side to make it possible. It happens. Every other team they lost to was probably equally as good, if not better.

2008: Flyers, probably an even match
2009: Penguins, they were a much better team
2010: Canadiens, the one series I might agree they blew
2011: Lightning, a better team
2012: Rangers, a better team
2013: Rangers, about equal
2015: Rangers, about equal
2016: Penguins, a better team
2017: Penguins, about equal
2019: Hurricanes, about equal
2020: Islanders, a better team

And they even beat some teams that I'd say were probably better: 2012 in particular against the Bruins, and 2018 the Penguins, Lightning, and Knights were probably all better teams on paper.

The point is parity has been high for most of the Ovechkin era.

Simply put, at one time, Ovy and company felt decades worth of playoff pressure and failure, not just this smaller window.

that was the mantle he inherited and subsequently broke IMO. I don’t see their playoff failures since as chokes and that why I disagree with TXPD suggesting that’s returning.

 

[txpd]

newsflash.....Cup runs usually ARE flashes in the pan.

I just don’t see this as a chokers angle anymore. Too much parity.

In this era both the Pens and Blackhawks won 3 cups. The Kings have more than 1. The Caps have 1 playoff run with more than 1 series win. Winning 2 rounds could be considered a flash in the pan not just 1 cup final unless they score some wins this season. Did I really need to specify that?

 

[Calicaps]

I think it's an odd side-note that they've blown some series leads, perhaps more than other teams in the NHL, but I think it's more incidental than something about the team that predisposed them to choke.

Maybe the only series I think they blew, at least in the Ovechkin era, was in 2010. But even then it took a historically good goaltending performance on one side and a really bad one on the other side to make it possible. It happens. Every other team they lost to was probably equally as good, if not better.

2008: Flyers, probably an even match
2009: Penguins, they were a much better team
2010: Canadiens, the one series I might agree they blew
2011: Lightning, a better team
2012: Rangers, a better team
2013: Rangers, about equal
2015: Rangers, about equal
2016: Penguins, a better team
2017: Penguins, about equal
2019: Hurricanes, about equal
2020: Islanders, a better team

By Caps standards, the Ovie era is a very small sample. That said, the 2010 Canadiens series was a massive choke. And IMO, so was the 2011 series against the Lightning. They had no business being swept by that team.

EDIT: or what @CapitalsCupReality said...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

In this era both the Pens and Blackhawks won 3 cups. The Kings have more than 1. The Caps have 1 playoff run with more than 1 series win. Winning 2 rounds could be considered a flash in the pan not just 1 cup final unless they score some wins this season. Did I really need to specify that?

It’s almost a different era now isn’t it? Long time ago to be clinging onto those things. I’ll let the HOF and the history books settle it all.

I’m happy with the one if that’s all I can get. Plenty of one and done Champions......no reason to flip your nose at it.

 

[txpd]

I think it's an odd side-note that they've blown some series leads, perhaps more than other teams in the NHL, but I think it's more incidental than something about the team that predisposed them to choke.

Maybe the only series I think they blew, at least in the Ovechkin era, was in 2010. But even then it took a historically good goaltending performance on one side and a really bad one on the other side to make it possible. It happens. Every other team they lost to was probably equally as good, if not better.

2008: Flyers, probably an even match
2009: Penguins, they were a much better team
2010: Canadiens, the one series I might agree they blew
2011: Lightning, a better team
2012: Rangers, a better team
2013: Rangers, about equal
2015: Rangers, about equal
2016: Penguins, a better team
2017: Penguins, about equal
2019: Hurricanes, about equal
2020: Islanders, a better team

And they even beat some teams that I'd say were probably better: 2012 in particular against the Bruins, and 2018 the Penguins, Lightning, and Knights were probably all better teams on paper.

The point is parity has been high for most of the Ovechkin era.

Come on. Lets not just give them a pass like that.

In 2009 they were up 2 games to none and in OT to go up 3-0. The Pens were NOT a much better team.
Then they blew 3 presidents trophy teams. The last two of those were added to being a minute from closing out a 5 games win v the Rangers when an pulled goalie goal tied the game. That was all of Trotz first 3 years as blown chances. By the way. The consistent failure in the about equal team segment is embarrassing. I am lost that you think in all those years with all those great teams, they only the one time had a better team. Come on.

The last 2 seasons they could have/should have beaten Carolina even with Oshie out. The loss is understandable. They were good enough to have beaten the Islanders had they wanted to. They didnt and the coach hit the road. They didnt change the team much. They didnt seem fearful that the team was inferior.

 

[txpd]

It’s almost a different era now isn’t it? Long time ago to be clinging onto those things. I’ll let the HOF and the history books settle it all.

I’m happy with the one if that’s all I can get. Plenty of one and done Champions......no reason to flip your nose at it.

Reset please. I am content with the one cup. I would be pleased though, if they would clear the second round occasionally so that the team that i cheer for isnt a punch line.

 

[Calicaps]

Come on. Lets not just give them a pass like that.

In 2009 they were up 2 games to none and in OT to go up 3-0. The Pens were NOT a much better team.
Then they blew 3 presidents trophy teams. The last two of those were added to being a minute from closing out a 5 games win v the Rangers when an pulled goalie goal tied the game. That was all of Trotz first 3 years as blown chances. By the way. The consistent failure in the about equal team segment is embarrassing. I am lost that you think in all those years with all those great teams, they only the one time had a better team. Come on.

The last 2 seasons they could have/should have beaten Carolina even with Oshie out. The loss is understandable. They were good enough to have beaten the Islanders had they wanted to. They didnt and the coach hit the road. They didnt change the team much. They didnt seem fearful that the team was inferior.

I agree with the first graf but not the second. In '19, it wasn't just Oshie. It was also Kempny. And honestly, the loss of Beagle was evident in terms of faceoffs in that series, IIRC. Last year, Trotz just embarrassed Reirden. Badly.

Reset please. I am content with the one cup. I would be pleased though, if they would clear the second round occasionally so that the team that i cheer for isnt a punch line.

And this is the main thing I disagree with. They are no longer a punch line. They just aren't. They are talked about so much differently. The expectations are different. I agree, to sustain that, they do need to perform more consistently in the playoffs, but I'd argue the leash is much longer than you allow.

EDIT: for instance, the Hawks lost in the first round twice after winning the Cup in 2010 and before winning again in 2013.

 

[txpd]

I agree with the first graf but not the second. In '19, it wasn't just Oshie. It was also Kempny. And honestly, the loss of Beagle was evident in terms of faceoffs in that series, IIRC. Last year, Trotz just embarrassed Reirden. Badly.


And this is the main thing I disagree with. They are no longer a punch line. They just aren't. They are talked about so much differently. The expectations are different. I agree, to sustain that, they do need to perform more consistently in the playoffs, but I'd argue the leash is much longer than you allow.

EDIT: for instance, the Hawks lost in the first round twice after winning the Cup in 2010 and before winning again in 2013.

Its my experience that the old ways of talking about the Caps have returned with strenth this season. If they lose early, it will dig in again. Yes, they need to prove they either a marginal playoff team losing to higher seeds or a higher seed that can pull its weight. Checking the scoreboard in the last 6 playoffs. A blown 3 games to 1 lead in the 2nd round. 2 flamed out President's Trophy seasons, a Cup win, and then two first round exits after winning the division.

Agree on Kempny. They didnt have a plan B but Oshie was the coup de grace there. That would have been the opportunity for Vrana to step up

 

[g00n]

Prior to 2018 they were chokers for sure. Expectations were frequently high and they blew too many game & series leads.

After that they haven't choked so much as FLOPPED. You have to have high expectations and/or significant favorite status to "choke". If you're good enough to maybe win and you find a way to suck, you flopped.

This year I wouldn't call a "choke" based on seeding since the division is so evenly matched near the top, as CCR said. If they go up 2-0 or 3-1 in a series and blow it, that's a choke job.

This is a terrible subject to be discussing right now, btw. lasklalsdjfa

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I agree hopefully the team isn’t talking about all the choking and are talking about how to win the Eastern division

 

[Calicaps]

Its my experience that the old ways of talking about the Caps have returned with strenth this season. If they lose early, it will dig in again. Yes, they need to prove they either a marginal playoff team losing to higher seeds or a higher seed that can pull its weight. Checking the scoreboard in the last 6 playoffs. A blown 3 games to 1 lead in the 2nd round. 2 flamed out President's Trophy seasons, a Cup win, and then two first round exits after winning the division.

Agree on Kempny. They didnt have a plan B but Oshie was the coup de grace there. That would have been the opportunity for Vrana to step up

I still am not convinced about the choker label. But we will see what happens this year... Hopefully it's moot. But the bolded, I definitely agree with.

 

[txpd]

I still am not convinced about the choker label. But we will see what happens this year... Hopefully it's moot. But the bolded, I definitely agree with.

When Backstrom broke his hand Eller stood up. They lost in double OT of game 7. 1 goal from Vrana might have changed that.

I think choking has become a more generic term for failure where the Caps are concerned. They choked vs the Rangers in 2015 and just lost vs the Pens the next 2 seasons when they could have won the cup. The last two seasons they didnt choke. They just failed. It doesnt look good when you always lose game 7 and its always at home.

 

[Calicaps]

When Backstrom broke his hand Eller stood up. They lost in double OT of game 7. 1 goal from Vrana might have changed that.

I think choking has become a more generic term for failure where the Caps are concerned. They choked vs the Rangers in 2015 and just lost vs the Pens the next 2 seasons when they could have won the cup. The last two seasons they didnt choke. They just failed. It doesnt look good when you always lose game 7 and its always at home.

they don't always lost game 7 (yes I know this one wasn't at home)

EDIT: anyway @g00n is right. this is an awful pre-playoff topic.

 

[kicksavedave]

I think it's an odd side-note that they've blown some series leads, perhaps more than other teams in the NHL, but I think it's more incidental than something about the team that predisposed them to choke.

Maybe the only series I think they blew, at least in the Ovechkin era, was in 2010. But even then it took a historically good goaltending performance on one side and a really bad one on the other side to make it possible. It happens. Every other team they lost to was probably equally as good, if not better.

2008: Flyers, probably an even match
2009: Penguins, they were a much better team
2010: Canadiens, the one series I might agree they blew
2011: Lightning, a better team
2012: Rangers, a better team
2013: Rangers, about equal
2015: Rangers, about equal
2016: Penguins, a better team
2017: Penguins, about equal
2019: Hurricanes, about equal
2020: Islanders, a better team

And they even beat some teams that I'd say were probably better: 2012 in particular against the Bruins, and 2018 the Penguins, Lightning, and Knights were probably all better teams on paper.

The point is parity has been high for most of the Ovechkin era.

You could be forgiven if you haven't been a Caps fan for 40 plus years like some of us, but the Choking Dogs label was applied by Tony Korneiser in 1996. They had lost 3 games to 1 series leads, I believe at that time, more than any other pro sports team in North America had. They then went on to lose many more 2 games series leads (3-1 or 2-0) in some epic collapses, including being up 2-0 vs TB in 2003 then losing 4-2. The label has applied since well before 2008.

Kornheiser officially declared the the label dead before they won the Cup in 2018. He did it in 1998 when they made the Cup finals, but then they went on to continue to cough up big series leads at a rate far far beyond any other pro team. 2018 officially erased the label for good. But it was more than 20 plus years in the making. It actually went back to the late 80s.

 

[Calicaps]

You could be forgiven if you haven't been a Caps fan for 40 plus years like some of us, but the Choking Dogs label was applied by Tony Korneiser in 1996. They had lost 3 games to 1 series leads, I believe at that time, more than any other pro sports team in North America had. They then went on to lose many more 2 games series leads (3-1 or 2-0) in some epic collapses, including being up 2-0 vs TB in 2003 then losing 4-2. The label has applied since well before 2008.

Kornheiser officially declared the the label dead before they won the Cup in 2018. He did it in 1998 when they made the Cup finals, but then they went on to continue to cough up big series leads at a rate far far beyond any other pro team. 2018 officially erased the label for good. But it was more than 20 plus years in the making. It actually went back to the late 80s.

Thanks Dave...

 

[txpd]

they don't always lost game 7 (yes I know this one wasn't at home)

EDIT: anyway @g00n is right. this is an awful pre-playoff topic.

That one was not at home.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Vrana with a 4 goal game. Lol.

Better yet, Panik also scored.

Detroit up on Dallas 6-3 with a few minutes to go.

 

[twabby]

Good for Vrana. He has to feel like a million bucks right now. Or maybe closer to six million bucks.

 

[kmart]

he is popping off... 4 goal game, congrats vrana

 

[AussieCapsFan]

That is awesome. Mantha with 4 goals in his first 4 games with the Caps.

Vrana gets 4 in one game.

Cue the main board thread and another 20 pages about how Yzerman is a genius and they won the trade

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Rangers lose to the Flyers in regulation. Yay!

 

[twabby]

Rangers lose to the Flyers in regulation. Yay!

As Craig Laughlin would say I think the Rangers are donesie.