League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Season Edition - Vol. 1

[CapitalsCupReality]

That’s only fineable to you?

He takes 4 strides after the puck is gone to make the hit. He literally swings his entire upper body from left to right to get as much momentum and force as possible to swing at the head area. Thank god Kotkaniemi (yes I copy and pasted his name lol) was in more of an upright position after making the pass or that could have been a lot worse.

to a layman.....probably looks like a fine.

 

[txpd]

Four strides. Is that like hunting a hit?

 

[Corby78]

Yes. It's certainly a penalty for elbowing, and I could get behind two separate minor penalties for elbowing and interference. A "knock it off" fine is also probably warranted. And the benefit of the doubt given to McDavid should be lessened for future incidents.

But he was clearly targeting the shoulder, Kotkaniemi's shoulder absorbed most of the impact, and his elbow didn't make significant contact with the head (though it did make some impact, which is why I think a minor penalty is warranted). He also didn't injure Kotkaniemi, and indeed I don't think he missed a shift.

A fine seems like a proper punishment.

I don't know why we are doing this again. A player getting injured should have ZERO to do with a fine/suspension. It should be based on legality of the play per league rules. Players get hurt during regular legal play. They also can be fine after a blatant illegal play. If its an illegal hit, it doesn't matter if he missed a shift or not.

 

[txpd]

The Totality of the Circumstances is the new bar

 

[Calicaps]

The Totality of the Circumstances is the new bar

that's xTotC to you.

 

[AussieCapsFan]

that's xTotC to you.

Funny: when I read that I saw the word Toxic.

The atmosphere around this place has really gone downhill in the last few months. I don't know if it started with the "discussion" about who would get vaccinated and who would wait, or if it was the Tom Wilson hit / suspension. But things have really changed
and it's become a negative, sniping, nasty place to come to discuss the team that we ALL love and want to see win another Cup. It's a real shame

 

[Calicaps]

Funny: when I read that I saw the word Toxic.

The atmosphere around this place has really gone downhill in the last few months. I don't know if it started with the "discussion" about who would get vaccinated and who would wait, or if it was the Tom Wilson hit / suspension. But things have really changed
and it's become a negative, sniping, nasty place to come to discuss the team that we ALL love and want to see win another Cup. It's a real shame

Many of us have been talking Caps together across multiple platforms for 20+ years. For the most part we get along just fine.

 

[twabby]

I don't know why we are doing this again. A player getting injured should have ZERO to do with a fine/suspension. It should be based on legality of the play per league rules. Players get hurt during regular legal play. They also can be fine after a blatant illegal play. If its an illegal hit, it doesn't matter if he missed a shift or not.

You’re basically entering a more philosophical argument at this point.

The NHL has made it crystal clear that injury is a factor when filing out punishment. I get why you might think that results shouldn’t matter and only intent, but there is a reason why legal systems around the world including in the US heavily factor in results and not just intent when doling out punishment.

I’m not really well equipped to argue the legal philosophy, but as is results do matter.

 

[Calicaps]

You’re basically entering a more philosophical argument at this point.

The NHL has made it crystal clear that injury is a factor when filing out punishment. I get why you might think that results shouldn’t matter and only intent, but there is a reason why legal systems around the world including in the US heavily factor in results and not just intent when doling out punishment.

I’m not really well equipped to argue the legal philosophy, but as is results do matter.

Intent shouldn't really matter either--only the action taken. If a player intends to hit someone in the head but misses and hits the shoulder, do you believe that player should be penalized based on intent?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Funny: when I read that I saw the word Toxic.

The atmosphere around this place has really gone downhill in the last few months. I don't know if it started with the "discussion" about who would get vaccinated and who would wait, or if it was the Tom Wilson hit / suspension. But things have really changed
and it's become a negative, sniping, nasty place to come to discuss the team that we ALL love and want to see win another Cup. It's a real shame

Just typical in-season sniping from my POV. If it’s too much, take a break....everyone goes through it at some point. I’ve taken some time off in past years. Pretty sure most regulars have had stretches where they couldn’t stand it here some days. If it’s not fun, why force yourself? The conversation isn’t changing.

 

[txpd]

Funny: when I read that I saw the word Toxic.

The atmosphere around this place has really gone downhill in the last few months. I don't know if it started with the "discussion" about who would get vaccinated and who would wait, or if it was the Tom Wilson hit / suspension. But things have really changed
and it's become a negative, sniping, nasty place to come to discuss the team that we ALL love and want to see win another Cup. It's a real shame

The WE NEED A GOALIE predates any Tom Wilson drama. I think the window was officially closed too. You must be new, though. This is normal after any loss

 

[AussieCapsFan]

Just typical in-season sniping from my POV. If it’s too much, take a break....everyone goes through it at some point. I’ve taken some time off in past years. Pretty sure most regulars have had stretches where they couldn’t stand it here some days. If it’s not fun, why force yourself? The conversation isn’t changing.

And therein lies the crux of the matter.....I don't understand how people around here can be happy talking about the same shit over and over again.

But you're right - nobody is forcing me to sit here and read through this. That's on me. So a break might be in order

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

And therein lies the crux of the matter.....I don't understand how people around here can be happy talking about the same shit over and over again.

But you're right - nobody is forcing me to sit here and read through this. That's on me. So a break might be in order

you can’t change humanity. Come back recharged and ready to get back in the trenches!

 

[twabby]

Intent shouldn't really matter either--only the action taken. If a player intends to hit someone in the head but misses and hits the shoulder, do you believe that player should be penalized based on intent?

Again, apply this same standard to the legal system and sentences handed out. Should a drunk driver get the same punishment as a DUI manslaughter?

Should attempted murder get the same sentence as murder?

They sentences aren’t the same, though the intent is the same. I’m not exactly sure why. But they are and I assume there are good reasons why?

 

[kicksavedave]

Funny: when I read that I saw the word Toxic.

The atmosphere around this place has really gone downhill in the last few months. I don't know if it started with the "discussion" about who would get vaccinated and who would wait, or if it was the Tom Wilson hit / suspension. But things have really changed
and it's become a negative, sniping, nasty place to come to discuss the team that we ALL love and want to see win another Cup. It's a real shame

Its been a while since the Caps have had a losing season, I'd hate to see this place when the Caps aren't in 1st place

We better f***ing win the Cup or this place will melt right on down.


BTW, I blame it on Covid cabin fever! Seems like this is our only human contact some times

 

[g00n]

And therein lies the crux of the matter.....I don't understand how people around here can be happy talking about the same shit over and over again.

But you're right - nobody is forcing me to sit here and read through this. That's on me. So a break might be in order

You would've loved the endless Semin and Green discussions.

This board is MUCH more polite and basically troll-free compared to days past.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

 

[g00n]

Again, apply this same standard to the legal system and sentences handed out. Should a drunk driver get the same punishment as a DUI manslaughter?

Should attempted murder get the same sentence as murder?

They sentences aren’t the same, though the intent is the same. I’m not exactly sure why. But they are and I assume there are good reasons why?

Why do you keep trying to make legal arguments when discussing sports? You know this is a game with rules, and not criminal misconduct with laws, right?

The circumstances are COMPLETELY different. The complexities of the legal system in managing a diverse society with countless moving parts and competing interests vs rights is nowhere close to the same thing as a professional sports league with grown ass men playing a violent sport they all KNOW is violent.

But if you must insist on making this about law (another bizarre twist) then the NHL carries a known Assumption of Risk for all players. And when dealing with guys like Tom Wilson, everyone on the ice knows and assumes the risk involved. Same goes for two players willingly dropping the gloves. Or skating with your head down. Or going into the boards. Or lowering your head. Or....

All of these are things you seem to want to treat more like criminal beatings or offenses rather than willing combatants accidentally injuring each other.

Assumption of risk - Wikipedia

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Its been a while since the Caps have had a losing season, I'd hate to see this place when the Caps aren't in 1st place

We better f***ing win the Cup or this place will melt right on down.


BTW, I blame it on Covid cabin fever! Seems like this is our only human contact some times

Just go back to any playoff defeat....it’s gut wrenching here. You know this. I’ve tapped out a few times after some bad series losses.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I mean my eye test when I saw this, saw an attempted elbow/forearm shiver that was meant to start high shoulder and finish hard in the chops. The fact that the puck was 10 feet away the other direction just more funny.

that was about as blatant as it gets....next time he’ll get a game or 2.

 

[g00n]

I mean, "accidentally-on-purpose" is a schoolyard bully tactic people have tried to see in every move Tom Wilson has made. Do we think other players are somehow incapable of it?

 

[Calicaps]

Again, apply this same standard to the legal system and sentences handed out. Should a drunk driver get the same punishment as a DUI manslaughter?

Should attempted murder get the same sentence as murder?

They sentences aren’t the same, though the intent is the same. I’m not exactly sure why. But they are and I assume there are good reasons why?

I don't understand what these questions have to do with intent.

 

[AussieCapsFan]

The WE NEED A GOALIE predates any Tom Wilson drama. I think the window was officially closed too. You must be new, though. This is normal after any loss

We don't need a goalie. We need a team that knows how to play better when they are leading by 2 or more goals. I'm not great at explaining it, but what I see is:

Our players seem to tune out a little and then they coast, and get lazy / careless with their passing.
The other team presses harder (of course they do) to try and score and our team gets stuck in their own end for too long. Players can't change, they get tired, and then the inevitable happens.
We don't seem to be able to "change the momentum" when it swings against us. The opposition gets a goal and they keep pressing to get another one, so it's like wave after wave of opposition
pressure and our guys just struggling to hang on, rather than pushing back and scoring a goal of our own, taking back control, etc.

I'm not a fan of "offensively minded" teams (such as ours) changing the way they play to defend / protect leads. I would rather they just play the same way for 60 minutes. Keep trying to get another goal. Our team looks very confident
when they just "play their game". Lavi and the rest of the coaching staff need to stop them from coasting / getting lazy when they are leading, but I don't think there is really much else that needs to change?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Consistently good goaltending wouldn’t hurt. (But I wouldn’t trade for one now).

I think the solution is both. Play better and get good goaltending every night. Neither is happening as consistently as we would prefer, or will be needed to win another Cup.

 

[Calicaps]

Flyers-Sabres deja vu all over again... Go Slugs Go!