League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Offseason Edition

[pman25]

Again if they make a trade for Eichel, it doesn’t mean Kuzy to Buffalo. Just need to ship Kuzy/Schultz for a positive return somewhere, hopefully some high picks that can be flipped in a package for Eichel. Or some sort of three way trade with Eichel to Caps, picks/prospects to Buffalo, Kuznetsov to team x

it can be done, it will basically mean Kuzy/McMichael/1st but I’d roll the dice. Screw it

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

5 blue chip assets is not pennies on the dollar?

When the return is Eichel it is. How many blue chip prospects become more than just standard players? 30 (now 32) guys are taken in the first every year, the odds of becoming even close to Eichel are slim to none. Teams over value their prospects when evaluating talent in trades.


Reminds me of the old Family Guy joke. You can have a boat or something from the mystery box

“Lois, it’s a mystery box, anything could be in there, even a boat!”


“He’s our first round pick we’re not giving him up for Eichel, he could become great one day… maybe even like Eichel!”

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

LMAO at you guys thinking Buf isn’t on Kuzy’s NMC list

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

When the return is Eichel it is. How many blue chip prospects become more than just standard players? 30 (now 32) guys are taken in the first every year, the odds of becoming even close to Eichel are slim to none

The ROR and Taylor Hall trade returns were pennies on the dollar. Buffalo would do backflips if they could get five blue chip assets for Eichel at this point.

Let's take LA for example. You think Buffalo is still getting package like Quinton Byfield + Alex Turcotte + Arthur Kaliyev/Rasmus Kupari + 2022 1st round pick + 2023 1st round pick? Or Anahem: Trevor Zegras + Jaime Drysdale + Maxime Comtois + 1st round picks? Zero chance. I think they'll be lucky to get three, maybe four if they're very lucky, of those assets at this point.

Also whoever trades for Eichel is likely going to have to send salary back since his cap hit is $10M/year, so roster players will be included in addition to/in lieu of futures.

 

[g00n]

5 blue chips for a guy with a busted neck (or just about any player) is a high anchor. Nobody is paying that.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

5 blue chips for a guy with a busted neck (or just about any player) is a high anchor. Nobody is paying that.

You’re vastly underrating Eichel. He’s a top 3 player in the league.

 

[g00n]

You’re vastly underrating Eichel. He’s a top 3 player in the league.

I'm vastly underrating a neck injury that requires disc replacement? I would think that will scare buyers off. If he gets 5 blue chips back I'll be shocked.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

You’re vastly underrating Eichel. He’s a top 3 player in the league.

um? no? LOL

 

[Anahome]

um? no? LOL

I think it's a sarcasm.

 

[Hivemind]

I don’t think Eichel is a top 3 player on the league (McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisatl), but Jack Eichel is one hell of a hockey player that has the potential to be absolutely unleashed once he gets out of Buffalo.

 

[g00n]

I think it's a sarcasm.

Maybe but I just took it at face value as an opinion. JE gets a lot of attention.

Who are the top gets in the league atm? Nate and McDavid and Matthews and some others would probably net 5 blue chips each if healthy. But give them a big fat question mark like a neck injury that requires disc replacement and I don't see any way a team chops off that big a part of their future. Three would be a stretch. Maybe you get a few good players and a bunch of picks but not a Lindros type haul. Unless I just don't know player values anymore which is entirely possible.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I would take 4 Tampa players over Eichel lol
Point, Kuch, Headman, Vas

 

[MW6]

Trade Kuzy to Vegas for Krebs + a 2nd round pick.

Then flip Krebs, McMichael, 1st round pick 2022, Alexeyev, Schultz and Hagelin (for salary reasons and Buffalo can trade them at the deadline for more assets) for Eichel.

I read somewhere that a pick between 17-32 has a 2,5% chance at becoming as impactful as Eichel.

 

[twabby]

I read somewhere that a pick between 17-32 has a 2,5% chance at becoming as impactful as Eichel.

This is probably about right. First round picks in general are highly overvalued.

McMichael is probably the Capitals best prospect and at least according to one model he has only a 10% chance of becoming a star player. Probably quite a bit less than that to become anywhere close to Eichel (or Hertl, or another current 1C in the NHL), let alone a true generational talent like Ovechkin.



McMichael, along with other first round picks for the Capitals, should absolutely be on the table this offseason to make a move. Ovechkin is a once-in-a-franchise player and they should be going all-in to win him another Cup and get him to 895. Nothing the Capitals do in the next 50 years will likely be as important and exciting IMO.

 

[Hivemind]

Buffalo really screwed the pooch here. They could have done so much better for Eichel if they traded him before the draft (which is also before free agency). A draft trade they can at least get a known high-end 1st round pick for him (look fans, we got the 3rd overall from Anaheim!). Now they'd be getting unkown 1st round picks. A maybe 2nd or maybe 12th pick is a lot less appealing than a known 3rd OA.

Moreover, I agree with everyone who's said the lack of free agent flexibility is going to cost Buffalo a lot of suitors (and limit the options of the suitors they do have). TO use Washington as an example, if they trade Eichel before free agency, they can ask for Samsonov as part of the return. Regardless of what some fans feel about him here, Sammy is still one of the Caps most valuable blue chip assets and Buffalo is devoid of goalie talent. Before free agency, the Capitals could entertain that notion, as they could have been a player for a Frederik Andersen, Petr Mrazek, or Jonathan Bernier in free agency. Now if the Sabres were to negotiate with Washington, Samsonov is off the table because the Capitals would be left devoid of goalie options should he be traded. This same notion, with different players and different cap binds, now applies to numerous teams they're shopping Eichel to.

I would take 4 Tampa players over Eichel lol
Point, Kuch, Headman, Vas

Brayden Point is a tremendous hockey player who would become our #1C if traded to Washington, but he's not better than Jack Eichel. Point is in no way a passenger, but his success is also a product of his environment (he's a great player on a great team). Eichel puts up similar/better boxcars and is an absolute possession monster on a tire fire of a team. Eichel is hands-down a better player than Point.

Kucherov is one of the few players I agree are better than Eichel. It's hard to compare forwards and defensemen and basically impossible to compare forwards and goalies, so the other two I'll leave be.

 

[trick9]

I would take 4 Tampa players over Eichel lol
Point, Kuch, Headman, Vas

I wouldn’t take any of those and to be honest wouldn’t even consider anyone except Hedman.

 

[Hivemind]

I wouldn’t take any of those and to be honest wouldn’t even consider anyone except Hedman.

I called him out for taking Point over Eichel, but you should definitely take Kucherov over Eichel. Kucherov's production and play driving is exactly what you hope Eichel can become if Eichel leaves Buffao (and matching Kuch's 128 point MVP season is likely above his ceiling), but Kuch is already at that level. I think because he missed this season people forgot how dominant Kucherov is.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I called him out for taking Point over Eichel, but you should definitely take Kucherov over Eichel. Kucherov's production and play driving is exactly what you hope Eichel can become if Eichel leaves Buffao (and matching Kuch's 128 point MVP season is likely above his ceiling), but Kuch is already at that level. I think because he missed this season people forgot how dominant Kucherov is.

What points done in the playoffs the last two season is extremely impressive. Eichel can’t match that

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

um? no? LOL

I meant specific to his position, he’s been so stifled by poor rosters in Buf. I don’t think people understand how good he is.

Outside of McDavid, every other guy discussed has had a fortuitous roster. MacKinnon while great look very inept when in his first few seasons Col had bad rosters.


Put Eichel on a decent roster and watch him be a top 3 player

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I meant specific to his position, he’s been so stifled by poor rosters in Buf. I don’t think people understand how good he is.

Outside of McDavid, every other guy discussed has had a fortuitous roster. MacKinnon while great look very inept when in his first few seasons Col had bad rosters.


Put Eichel on a decent roster and watch him be a top 3 player

He’s an All star for sure but best 3 in the league is a hot take.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

He’s an All star for sure but best 3 in the league is a hot take.

I understand it’s a hot take bug aside from like insanely rare guys like Crosby and McDavid, C is a position that will always look questionable if surrounded by trash. He’s never had half the roster most guys get

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I understand it’s a hot take bug aside from like insanely rare guys like Crosby and McDavid, C is a position that will always look questionable if surrounded by trash. He’s never had half the roster most guys get

Skinner, Hall and a list of top 5 picks. If you’re that good you don’t come in last place every season.

 

[Hivemind]

Skinner, Hall and a list of top 5 picks. If you’re that good you don’t come in last place every season.

When Skinner and Eichel played together, Skinner put up 40Gs. Then Raplh Krueger was hired and separated them. Skinner scored only 21G in the next two seasons combined.
Hall and Eichel played on the same team for all of 21 games.
Their supporting cast of "list of top 5 picks" are only Sam Reinhart and Rasmus Dahlin.

Eichel can't deadlift a dysfunctional franchise on his own, especially with the utterly incompetent Ralph Krueger sabotaging things. That doesn't mean he's not an elite player.

 

[twabby]

Since we're on the topic of Eichel, here are some player isolates of him:

Spoiler: Isolates for Jack Eichel

Evolving-Hockey:

Hockeyviz:

JFresh:

Elite playdriver and great playmaker, very good finisher minus last year, and improving on defense (as young players tend to do).

If he is expected to be healthy after surgery (big if) the Capitals should give up the farm for him. He's so much better than any other option on the Capitals right now and he would make the top 6 a threat again at 5v5 instead of a doormat against good possession teams.

Not only that, but Eichel will be 25-29 years old during Ovechkin's 5-year contract. These are Eichel's prime years where production and impact isn't likely to drop off. This isn't like committing 5 years to a 30 year old UFA where you are paying for past performance. They'd be paying for future top-end 1C performance.

It seems like a no-brainer to me to pursue him aggressively if his health prognosis is good.

 

[txpd]

It seems like a no-brainer to me to pursue him aggressively if his health prognosis is good.

Which part of "big if" is a "no brainer"?