Rumor: NHL Talk 21/22: It's real, and it's spectacular

[golffuul]

Edm is a mess. They are not the Pens. Malkin and Crosby committed early on to a 200ft game with some grit. I hated them as a Wings fan, but you had to recognize how special they were as players. They also took pretty solid deals even at the time they signed them. That allowed the pens to fill in some low cost vets.

It's incredibility hard to build a team around a 12+ mil forward. Then there was the Keith trade which made no sense. I get wanting to add vet leadership but not a guy on his way out, with a huge cap hit, giving up assets, that has already won a bunch of cups. Bring in the vet that hasn't won one yet. The Dallas Drake/ Duke kind of guy. Then there was the issue of completely not addressing the goalie situation. Yeah you can go for a middling guy if you have the likes of Lids, Konstaninov, Chelios, Rafalski etc on your dline, not so much when your best dman is Nurse (who is about to probably be overpaid).

The best thing Edm could do is probably deal McDavid to help solidify defense/ goaltending and then sign some offensive depth/grit. Build around Drai and his 4 mil lower cap hit.

Interesting. The two highest Cap Hit players to win a Cup since 2010 (where their Cap hit was realized in the year they won), are Ovechkin and Malkin (9.53 and 9.5 respectively). Toews and Kane got their contracts (10.5M AAV) after winning in 2015.

I wonder if we'll ever see a Cup winner where a roster has a player whose salary exceeds 12-13% or a combination of three players whose salaries are 1/3 of a team's cap hit. It'll be an interesting statistic to be aware of going forward.

 

[Winger98]

Edm is a mess. They are not the Pens. Malkin and Crosby committed early on to a 200ft game with some grit. I hated them as a Wings fan, but you had to recognize how special they were as players. They also took pretty solid deals even at the time they signed them. That allowed the pens to fill in some low cost vets.

It's incredibility hard to build a team around a 12+ mil forward. Then there was the Keith trade which made no sense. I get wanting to add vet leadership but not a guy on his way out, with a huge cap hit, giving up assets, that has already won a bunch of cups. Bring in the vet that hasn't won one yet. The Dallas Drake/ Duke kind of guy. Then there was the issue of completely not addressing the goalie situation. Yeah you can go for a middling guy if you have the likes of Lids, Konstaninov, Chelios, Rafalski etc on your dline, not so much when your best dman is Nurse (who is about to probably be overpaid).

The best thing Edm could do is probably deal McDavid to help solidify defense/ goaltending and then sign some offensive depth/grit. Build around Drai and his 4 mil lower cap hit.

If Crosby/Malkin signed their deals at the same time McDavid did, their cap hits would have been around $10.8m a year for Crosby and $11m a year for Malkin or around $21-22m combined. McDavid/Draisaitl make...around $21m combined. I'm not saying Crosby/Malkin weren't special as players or a better duo to build around, but they did not take any super friendly deals to let the Pens keep a good team around them.

I'm also not sure I'd bash Keith considering how well he's actually played for them. They already have a bunch of guys who haven't won anything. Think of when the Wings went out and dealt for Sandstrom and Murphy in 97, brought in Vernon a couple of years before, brought Kocur back after he won it with NYR, etc.

I don't really disagree with the premise that it's hard to build around big salaried players, or that maybe dealing one of their wunderkinds wouldn't be the best way forward. I'm just not sold on any of the arguments against what they have done the past few years.

 

[FabricDetails]

Thanks Minnesota. For tonight at least.

 

[19 for president]

If Crosby/Malkin signed their deals at the same time McDavid did, their cap hits would have been around $10.8m a year for Crosby and $11m a year for Malkin or around $21-22m combined. McDavid/Draisaitl make...around $21m combined. I'm not saying Crosby/Malkin weren't special as players or a better duo to build around, but they did not take any super friendly deals to let the Pens keep a good team around them.

I'm also not sure I'd bash Keith considering how well he's actually played for them. They already have a bunch of guys who haven't won anything. Think of when the Wings went out and dealt for Sandstrom and Murphy in 97, brought in Vernon a couple of years before, brought Kocur back after he won it with NYR, etc.

I don't really disagree with the premise that it's hard to build around big salaried players, or that maybe dealing one of their wunderkinds wouldn't be the best way forward. I'm just not sold on any of the arguments against what they have done the past few years.

You are totally correct. The was more consistently rising then which obviously helped.

Keith I still say was too much cap space to take on for a multi year deal. Especially since they had to give up assets to get him. You are right in the having a few guys with experience but in the cap world I tend to lean on them as cheaper 3rd/4th line guys or 3rd pair dmen. Or like a deadline deal for a rental guy. Especially when you know you have huge holes to fill. He hasn't been terrible but I almost feel like he'd have had to had a massive bounce back to justify that direction.

 

[Winger98]

You are totally correct. The was more consistently rising then which obviously helped.

Keith I still say was too much cap space to take on for a multi year deal. Especially since they had to give up assets to get him. You are right in the having a few guys with experience but in the cap world I tend to lean on them as cheaper 3rd/4th line guys or 3rd pair dmen. Or like a deadline deal for a rental guy. Especially when you know you have huge holes to fill. He hasn't been terrible but I almost feel like he'd have had to had a massive bounce back to justify that direction.

Ideally, yeah. But Holland doesn't have an ideal situation in Edmonton, and Keith is filling one of those holes made by Klefbom's career ending and Larsson flaking out.

I look at Edmonton and I see a team where you just try to put the best team out there you can while sorting out the cap/talent mess left by Chiarelli. Filling all of those holes left on the roster, massaging the cap hits...McDavid/Draisaitl keeps them from being a tire fire, but I think the mess Holland stepped into over there has been understated.

 

[jkutswings]

Hopefully they didn't have Kane call them a cab...

 

[Ezekial]

Watching Andrei Svechnikov makes me sad we didn't get a little lottery luck to grab him. Such a powerful, dynamic player.

 

[FabricDetails]

Klingberg allegedly makes a trade request, eh?

Will he be worth the $8-$9 million AAV he apparently wants?

 

[bedtime20]

Klingberg allegedly makes a trade request, eh?

Will he be worth the $8-$9 million AAV he apparently wants?

He would be a good mentor for Edvinsson, Stevie can probably sign him for cheap.

 

[lhsgolf19]

Would you do it? Take a look and pick him up

 

[19 for president]

Would you do it? Take a look and pick him up

No its a total circus around that guy and the Wings are a young team. Don't need anything upsetting what appears to be a very healthy lockeroom dynamic for such a young team.

 

[golffuul]

Would you do it? Take a look and pick him up

Nope...he violated his player conduct agreement and AHL covid protocol rules. Dude is pretty well banned from the NHL as long as Covid exists.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

That's crazy. I thought he would have learned his lesson with the fake card. But no. He's violating the AHL protocol too. What a way to kill your career.

 

[Bench]

Klingberg allegedly makes a trade request, eh?

Will he be worth the $8-$9 million AAV he apparently wants?

I've been banging that bongo for a few years now.

Something around Hronek is probably appealing to a Dallas team that is trying to still compete today. I don't see any "contenders" who have the luxury to give up a player of that caliber immediately.

Klingberg is older but I think the defensive difference would be huge for the 2nd pairing. With Klingberg your right side is locked down for a good 6, maybe 7 years.

 

[golffuul]

I've been banging that bongo for a few years now.

Something around Hronek is probably appealing to a Dallas team that is trying to still compete today. I don't see any "contenders" who have the luxury to give up a player of that caliber immediately.

Klingberg is older but I think the decisive difference would be huge for the 2nd pairing. With Klingberg your right side is locked down for a good 6, maybe 7 years.

I think I have only one hesitation to getting Klingberg, at this point....and that's Edvinsson. We can't hold on to 3 d-men who could be all making 8+M/year in 3-4 year's time, as much as I would for that to be a thing. Granted by the time Edvinsson's contract would come due, the Cap would go up, and we would have Klingberg, Seider, and Raymond contracts all under the umbrella. Hmmm.....I definitely would love to dangle Hronek in a Klingberg deal, but I think between Edvinsson and then guys like Sebrango, Viro, and AlJo....I'm thinking we might be better off holding out for either a center upgrade or another goal scorer who fills a middle-6 role.

Tough decision, though... a lot of merit to a number of different approaches and Klingberg would offer a bit more veteran stability for a long time and might even allow us to deal Leddy off for a 1st. Dangit Bench!!!

 

[Oddbob]

Would you do it? Take a look and pick him up

Are you for real? If the Wings actually want him, why take him off waivers with his ridiculous contract, when you can sign him to cheap deal the second he gets bought out. Adding him would be brutal. He is a distraction that few teams can handle or need.

 

[Oddbob]

I've been banging that bongo for a few years now.

Something around Hronek is probably appealing to a Dallas team that is trying to still compete today. I don't see any "contenders" who have the luxury to give up a player of that caliber immediately.

Klingberg is older but I think the defensive difference would be huge for the 2nd pairing. With Klingberg your right side is locked down for a good 6, maybe 7 years.

Yeah, if he doesn't decline. Sharks situation has me leery of paying 30 year old defenders with anything more than 5 years. Klingberg wants big money and I am assuming 7 years as UFA.

 

[Oddbob]

I think I have only one hesitation to getting Klingberg, at this point....and that's Edvinsson. We can't hold on to 3 d-men who could be all making 8+M/year in 3-4 year's time, as much as I would for that to be a thing. Granted by the time Edvinsson's contract would come due, the Cap would go up, and we would have Klingberg, Seider, and Raymond contracts all under the umbrella. Hmmm.....I definitely would love to dangle Hronek in a Klingberg deal, but I think between Edvinsson and then guys like Sebrango, Viro, and AlJo....I'm thinking we might be better off holding out for either a center upgrade or another goal scorer who fills a middle-6 role.

Tough decision, though... a lot of merit to a number of different approaches and Klingberg would offer a bit more veteran stability for a long time and might even allow us to deal Leddy off for a 1st. Dangit Bench!!!

I agree about not wanting 3 D taking that money, but if you spend that big money now, that is OK, if Edvinsson does well, as that means you have a good problem with too many great D. Not making any move on the hope someone pans out, is a good way to lose out on good players.

 

[golffuul]

The Bergevin/Danault saga continues?

 

[Sweetpotato]

Every HFoil user(including me) after today's press conference.

 

[raymond23]

 

[FabricDetails]

The talks of Evander Kane joining the Oilers is LOL in terms of what Kenny might be thinking.

 

[TCNorthstars]

The talks of Evander Kane joining the Oilers is LOL in terms of what Kenny might be thinking.

He is thinking he should kick the tires on getting a really good player cheap. His team is faltering now and Kane would be the 3rd best player on that team.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He is thinking he should kick the tires on getting a really good player cheap. His team is faltering now and Kane would be the 3rd best player on that team.

That Oilers team lacks real leadership and locker room presence and the guy they're looking at bringing in is the biggest locker room cancer in the league.

 

[TCNorthstars]

That Oilers team lacks real leadership and locker room presence and the guy they're looking at bringing in is the biggest locker room cancer in the league.

He is still a great player and it is only a half season. What is the worst that happens? They miss the playoffs? They are trending that way anyway. Talent gives a long leash. Just look at Antonio Brown.