Prospect Info: NHL Pipeline Rankings (Pronman)

[Larkin2AA]

The Red Wings enter in at 9th... didn't think we would end up at the bottom of the top 10. Idk if I agree with the ranking of our prospects pool, or the order of talent he has them in.

Had us ranked 18th in 2020.

NHL Pipeline Rankings: No. 9 Detroit Red Wings forming strong foundation behind Moritz Seider – The Athletic

1. Moritz Seider
2. Lucas Raymond
3. Sebastian Cossa
4. Simon Edvinnson
5. Michael Rasmussen
6. Filip Zadina
7. Joe Veleno
8. Albert Johansson
   
9. Jonatan Berggren
   
10. Elmer Soderblom
    
11. Shai Buium
    
12. Donovan Sebrango
13. Jared McIsaac
14. Eemil Viro
15. Robert Mastrosimone
    
16. Theodor Niederbach

Click to read more...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Rasmussen and Zadina still considered prospects is a bit odd. Berggren also seems to be ranked a bit low but that's just my opinion.

 

[Frk It]

I think we have a top 5 pool, personally.

Looks like BUF, NYR, LAK, OTT, VAN, CAR, NJ, COL are the teams he has ahead of us.

I don't like this methodology of including all picks from 2017-2022.

Like Carolina over us? Svechnikov and Necas have 300+ games played in the NHL combined. They are not prospects in my eyes. I think that's dumb to say they have a better prospect pool.

 

[raymond23]

Considering the lottery continues to f*** us, 9th isn't all that bad

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think we have a top 5 pool, personally.

Looks like BUF, NYR, LAK, OTT, VAN, CAR, NJ, COL are the teams he has ahead of us.

I don't like this methodology of including all picks from 2017-2022.

Like Carolina over us? Svechnikov and Necas have 300+ games played in the NHL combined. They are not prospects in my eyes. I think that's dumb to say they have a better prospect pool.

I honestly like these lists better. It's not presented as a prospect pool rankings.

We are reasonably ranked imo. Our NHL talent brings us down. But the good thing is almost everyone on the list will still be in there in a year or even two or three. We have a deep pipeline. Just need some of them to show stuff in the NHL.

 

[drw02]

It's a U23 ranking so 9th seems about right I guess

 

[izlez]

I do like seeing these types of ranikings every once in a while. It'd be interesting to see another poll on here to see where people think Zadina and Rasmussen fall in with the rest of our prospects

 

[Hen Kolland]

I think we have a top 5 pool, personally.

Looks like BUF, NYR, LAK, OTT, VAN, CAR, NJ, COL are the teams he has ahead of us.

I don't like this methodology of including all picks from 2017-2022.

Like Carolina over us? Svechnikov and Necas have 300+ games played in the NHL combined. They are not prospects in my eyes. I think that's dumb to say they have a better prospect pool.

It's flawed because the context of where a team is at in their competitive cycle is lost. You noticed that the Red Wings list is entirely composed of prospects, but a team like Carolina as you pointed out, or Vancouver who will have Hughes and Pettersson will be carried by the strength of multi-year high end veterans. How different are the rankings if you take out players with over a full NHL season in games played? The Wings lose Ras and Zadina, which doesn't help, but Carolina's non-NHL regulars compared to the Wings? Cake walk. Vancouver's non-NHL regulars compared to the Wings? Cake walk.

I knew that this was going to be an embarrassing ranking team to team when you consider the way that the qualifications are laid out. I'm more interested in the way the rankings for the Wings were laid out and the breakdown of each player.

The way that I would summarize this article is "when in doubt, just use the word average."

Cossa's athleticism is average? Disagree, unless athleticism is only in absolute terms and there's no difference between a 6'1 goalie and a 6'6 goalie.
Seider's hockey sense is average? Disagree, unless hockey sense only exists as a PPQB.
Raymond's skating is average? Disagree, unless you're only interested in straight line speed.
Edvinsson is totally and entirely average? Disagree, totally and entirely.

I can nitpick every single breakdown that Pronman puts together, because quite honestly I think this is some of the lazier work he's put out. His tiers don't necessarily reflect his skill breakdowns which don't necessarily agree with his writeups.

This is a continued slow degradation of Pronman's coverage beyond the annual draft class prep. I don't believe he puts in half as much work following drafted prospects as he does draft eligibles.

 

[Henkka]

Rasmussen and Zadina still considered prospects is a bit odd. Berggren also seems to be ranked a bit low but that's just my opinion.

This is the determinating-debate, we have had in our prospect thread.

I think this kind of "best young player -core" instead of word "prospect" will tell a lot more about organization's future.

Prospects will tell about.... prospects.

 

[Frk It]

It's flawed because the context of where a team is at in their competitive cycle is lost. You noticed that the Red Wings list is entirely composed of prospects, but a team like Carolina as you pointed out, or Vancouver who will have Hughes and Pettersson will be carried by the strength of multi-year high end veterans. How different are the rankings if you take out players with over a full NHL season in games played? The Wings lose Ras and Zadina, which doesn't help, but Carolina's non-NHL regulars compared to the Wings? Cake walk. Vancouver's non-NHL regulars compared to the Wings? Cake walk.

I knew that this was going to be an embarrassing ranking team to team when you consider the way that the qualifications are laid out. I'm more interested in the way the rankings for the Wings were laid out and the breakdown of each player.

The way that I would summarize this article is "when in doubt, just use the word average."

Cossa's athleticism is average? Disagree, unless athleticism is only in absolute terms and there's no difference between a 6'1 goalie and a 6'6 goalie.
Seider's hockey sense is average? Disagree, unless hockey sense only exists as a PPQB.
Raymond's skating is average? Disagree, unless you're only interested in straight line speed.
Edvinsson is totally and entirely average? Disagree, totally and entirely.

I can nitpick every single breakdown that Pronman puts together, because quite honestly I think this is some of the lazier work he's put out. His tiers don't necessarily reflect his skill breakdowns which don't necessarily agree with his writeups.

This is a continued slow degradation of Pronman's coverage beyond the annual draft class prep. I don't believe he puts in half as much work following drafted prospects as he does draft eligibles.

I liked his number system much better. I also thought his skating evaluations in this draft were just... very sus.

He had Edvinsson as an average skater and not in his top 10 skaters for this last draft, in a draft lacking elite skaters no less.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I liked his number system much better. I also thought his skating evaluations in this draft were just... very sus.

He had Edvinsson as an average skater and not in his top 10 skaters for this last draft, in a draft lacking elite skaters no less.

Seider, skating: average. "He's a 6-foot-4, highly mobile, highly physical defender who projects to match up versus top NHL players. His skating helps him transition pucks very well to go with a strong first pass."

Edvinsson, skating: average, puck skills: average. "He stands out instantly as a 6-foot-4 (wrong) defenseman with legit offensive skill. It's rare to see a player his size lead a rush or make a play off the blue line and dangle through opponents consistently like he does. Edvinsson is also quite a good skater for his size. His straightaway speed is just OK, but he's got great edgework, showing the first step and quick turns to elude pressure and create clean exits and entries."

AVERAGE

 

[Larkin2AA]

Seider, skating: average. "He's a 6-foot-4, highly mobile, highly physical defender who projects to match up versus top NHL players. His skating helps him transition pucks very well to go with a strong first pass."

Edvinsson, skating: average, puck skills: average. "He stands out instantly as a 6-foot-4 (wrong) defenseman with legit offensive skill. It's rare to see a player his size lead a rush or make a play off the blue line and dangle through opponents consistently like he does. Edvinsson is also quite a good skater for his size. His straightaway speed is just OK, but he's got great edgework, showing the first step and quick turns to elude pressure and create clean exits and entries."

AVERAGE

I was reading these thinking "wtf is this guys smoking?". These players skating should at the very least be above-average being 6'4 and 6'6. Lazy writing is something you mentioned above, and I agree with you.

 

[Henkka]

Skating is AVERAGE, when a big guy is going fast, but those long legs are moving slowly.

Skating is GREAT, when a small guy going fast, but his short legs are moving superfast.

Same speed on both guys.

Most typical illusion in hockey.

 

[MBH]

If we'd drafted 5 straight 5'9 wingers, we'd be #1 on pronman's list.

 

[Christoph53]

Skating: average
Puck skills: below average
Hockey IQ: average

Surely that cannot be Moritz Seider right?

Edit: He has him at 183 pounds, so it's probably not our Seider he watched

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Seider, skating: average. "He's a 6-foot-4, highly mobile, highly physical defender who projects to match up versus top NHL players. His skating helps him transition pucks very well to go with a strong first pass."

Edvinsson, skating: average, puck skills: average. "He stands out instantly as a 6-foot-4 (wrong) defenseman with legit offensive skill. It's rare to see a player his size lead a rush or make a play off the blue line and dangle through opponents consistently like he does. Edvinsson is also quite a good skater for his size. His straightaway speed is just OK, but he's got great edgework, showing the first step and quick turns to elude pressure and create clean exits and entries."

AVERAGE

What he needs to do is clarify what exactly average means. Is he average vis-a-vis current NHL players or average vis-a-vis the other players being ranked or is he projecting them out to be league average skaters when they establish themselves in the NHL?

I think Pronman really mailed this one in.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

What he needs to do is clarify what exactly average means. Is he average vis-a-vis current NHL players or average vis-a-vis the other players being ranked or is he projecting them out to be league average skaters when they establish themselves in the NHL?

I think Pronman really mailed this one in.

At least in the pre-draft rankings I think Pronman has been pretty clear, that he compares where the player is at right now and compares that towards current NHL players.

 

[Ezekial]

lol Pronman.

Between the average measurables and the Rasmussen over Zadina Idk what to think.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

At least in the pre-draft rankings I think Pronman has been pretty clear, that he compares where the player is at right now and compares that towards current NHL players.

Which is fine, but doesn't really tell you anything. 99% of 18-year-old hockey players are below average based upon current NHL standards.

 

[Hen Kolland]

What he needs to do is clarify what exactly average means. Is he average vis-a-vis current NHL players or average vis-a-vis the other players being ranked or is he projecting them out to be league average skaters when they establish themselves in the NHL?

I think Pronman really mailed this one in.

He built in a cop out when he said the short turnaround this off-season forced these to be released quicker than years past.

I’d expect the write ups to be shit quality, but at least some decent thoughts. The write ups are better written than the content is developed. Lipstick on a pig this time around

 

[ChadS]

Those player grades are really inconsistent and don't really offer much info at all, I liked his earlier rating style more. The ranking itself is debatable but I do prefer this way of including all players from the past 5 drafts. After all people are interested in what an organization's future is looking like with its current group of young players, and it would be stupid not to include the best of that group just because they're too good. Lets say theoretically Seider, Raymond, Berggren and Veleno all make the team full-time, that would be a pretty big hit on our "pipeline" but it's mostly just a very positive thing for the Wings' future.

So many people say Söderblom's skating is poor/horrible but IMO it's not that bad especially for a guy his size at 20.

 

[Bench]

Skating is AVERAGE, when a big guy is going fast, but those long legs are moving slowly.

Skating is GREAT, when a small guy going fast, but his short legs are moving superfast.

Same speed on both guys.

Most typical illusion in hockey.

Anyone who grew up in youth hockey knows the "pitching hay" skaters that are throwing their arms side to side dramatically so it looks like their hustle is in overdrive. A dad filling in coaching might encourage that kind of showy, inefficient hustle.

It would be pretty disappointing if a professional like Pronman is subject to the same evaluation issues as the average fan. I have a feeling it's not that, but hey.

 

[Gniwder]

This is the determinating-debate, we have had in our prospect thread.

I think this kind of "best young player -core" instead of word "prospect" will tell a lot more about organization's future.

Prospects will tell about.... prospects.

Yup, age determines when they will peak, not number of games so far. 5 years from now, the core will determine how well the team does, not just the prospects.

When the best center prospects on the list are Veleno, Raz, and Neiderbach, the team is lucky to even be ranked 9th, regardless of how bad his evaluation of skating is. This is why I wanted Svechkov over Cossa. Goalies can be acquired through UFA or trades, top 6 centers and top pair D are much harder.

 

[ShanahanMan]

People get on Pronman but most of his picks are spot on. He’s also not a big fan of Edvinsson which brought us down.

if we drafted Eklund, we’d be top 5 lol.

 

[Retire91]

We got f'd by the lottery system and we haven't had a top 3 pick so I think that hurt us in the ranking IMO. I feel fine coming in at 9 that is pretty decent considering the rebuild is still pretty fresh.