GDT: NHL/BRUINS - FREE AGENT FIZZLE - Mod warning page 24

[The National]

How is there enough cap to go around for all 3 guys if Sweeney doesn’t make any cap relieving trades and/or Backes goes on LTIR?

 

[TCB]

Are you In for a little Bruin hockey, I'm sure the fans in Toronto and Vancouver will be.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

How is there enough cap to go around for all 3 guys if Sweeney doesn’t make any cap relieving trades and/or Backes goes on LTIR?

the rumor that seems to have the most credibility behind it is that backes will go onto ltir when the season starts... so we can push decesion day off for an undetermined amount of time

moore seems to be injured and on ltir to start the year too.

im going to suggest that will mean no decesions on trading moore/backes are likely to happen immediately.

I think the first domino to fall is probably kevan miller... id expect to see him played a lot in exhibition to show everyone hes healthy. some team will be desperate for a dman by the time camp is over. id expect him moved.

will that mean we dont sign carlo or McAvoy until camp? I hope not... but it sure looks like most the rfa are playing a waiting game of chicken so its possible.

all in all... I dont think theres a feeling we cant afford to get our 3 rfa signed... the pieces we are talking about moving are a 13th forward and a 7th and 8th dman... this isnt the heart of the team we are planning to part with.

its not sexy or exciting for me to say this... but I think the team you see is basically the team we will start the year with. our moves are made. backes seems very strongly rumored headed to ltir. 15 mill will be enough to get our 3 rfa signed.

I think my focus is now looking ahead to next year when krug/debrusk/coyle come due for new contracts and just how will we afford the 8+ million in raises they will be asking for

 

[Over the volcano]

I think my focus is now looking ahead to next year when krug/debrusk/coyle come due for new contracts and just how will we afford the 8+ million in raises they will be asking for

Well Beleskey and Seidenberg will be coming off the books for 3+ and KMiller’s 2.5... figure the cap will rise a bit and you’re getting close to that 8 mil figure.

 

[Dizzay]

McAvoy- 3 years @ 5.5 million(bridge similar to T. Seguin)
Carlo- 4 years @4.0 million
Heinen- 2 years @ 2.75 million
12.25 million
Cap space: 10.13 million
Trade K Miller for a 3rd round pick 2.5 million
David Backes LTIR to start the season
John Moore LTIR to start the season
Cap compliant plus the LTIR money accumulating

 

[Fenian24]

McAvoy- 3 years @ 5.5 million(bridge similar to T. Seguin)
Carlo- 4 years @4.0 million
Heinen- 2 years @ 2.75 million
12.25 million
Cap space: 10.13 million
Trade K Miller for a 3rd round pick 2.5 million
David Backes LTIR to start the season
John Moore LTIR to start the season
Cap compliant plus the LTIR money accumulating

Let's say Carlo signs before McAvoy. He see him sign at 4M, do you think McAvoy would be ok making just 1.5M more than Carlo with his numbers and what each brings to the team? I don't. McAvoy I can see not signing until the start of the season, the fact that Sweeney mentioned at one point that they have until December 1st to get the RFA's signed I don't think was in reference to Carlo.

McAvoy starts at 6.5 for a year and goes up per each additional year. Using the other contracts on the team won't matter, I'm sure he and his agent will use other RFA defenseman as comparables not some internal Bruins cap max per player. I would not expect him signed until Trouba settles his arbitration and that will most likely be his starting point.

From what I have been told by some regarding Heinen is his analytic stats are excellent, if so his agent will use those in arbitration, depending on how the arbitrator feels about advanced stats will possibly determine Heinen's salary. As much as I am not a fan of Mr. Intensity 2.75M is probably being very generous to the Bruins. I wouldn't touch him at more than that but I'm sure the Bruins will, anything under 3.5 per year they can't walk away.

 

[DominicT]

Let's say Carlo signs before McAvoy. He see him sign at 4M, do you think McAvoy would be ok making just 1.5M more than Carlo with his numbers and what each brings to the team? I don't. McAvoy I can see not signing until the start of the season, the fact that Sweeney mentioned at one point that they have until December 1st to get the RFA's signed I don't think was in reference to Carlo.

McAvoy starts at 6.5 for a year and goes up per each additional year. Using the other contracts on the team won't matter, I'm sure he and his agent will use other RFA defenseman as comparables not some internal Bruins cap max per player. I would not expect him signed until Trouba settles his arbitration and that will most likely be his starting point.

From what I have been told by some regarding Heinen is his analytic stats are excellent, if so his agent will use those in arbitration, depending on how the arbitrator feels about advanced stats will possibly determine Heinen's salary. As much as I am not a fan of Mr. Intensity 2.75M is probably being very generous to the Bruins. I wouldn't touch him at more than that but I'm sure the Bruins will, anything under 3.5 per year they can't walk away.

I dunno.

JP Barry, perhaps the toughest agent to deal with Allowed David Pastrnak to sign for just over $6.6 million. McAvoy's agent is Rick Curran who has half a dozen NHL players, just let Kevin Labanc sign a 1 year $1 million deal and who would have thought that?

As for Heinen's arbitration, advanced stats are not admissible in arbitration. Only official league stats available on their website for all to see are admissible.

 

[AngryMilkcrates]

I dunno.

JP Barry, perhaps the toughest agent to deal with Allowed David Pastrnak to sign for just over $6.6 million. McAvoy's agent is Rick Curran who has half a dozen NHL players, just let Kevin Labanc sign a 1 year $1 million deal and who would have thought that?

As for Heinen's arbitration, advanced stats are not admissible in arbitration. Only official league stats available on their website for all to see are admissible.

REALLY?
Thats not good for Danton and will surely remove on of his camps greatest weapons.

Wow.

 

[DominicT]

REALLY?
Thats not good for Danton and will surely remove on of his camps greatest weapons.

Wow.

Sorry, they don't have to be available on the website. But any stat the NHL maintains or the NHLPA - those are the only admissible stats.

Section 12.9 (h) of the CBA

The League shall obtain and provide to the NHLPA any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance: (i) kept or maintained by the League; or (ii) retained by any Club. The NHLPA shall provide to the League any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance kept or maintained by the NHLPA.

 

[jgatie]

McAvoy- 3 years @ 5.5 million(bridge similar to T. Seguin)

Seguin signed for 6 years at $5.75M AAV back in 2013. How is that a bridge deal?

 

[LouJersey]

Seguin signed for 6 years at $5.75M AAV back in 2013. How is that a bridge deal?

he probably took a couple of bridges on his way to Dallas.

 

[Over the volcano]

he probably took a couple of bridges on his way to Dallas.

And burned a few

 

[PB37]

Sorry, they don't have to be available on the website. But any stat the NHL maintains or the NHLPA - those are the only admissible stats.

Section 12.9 (h) of the CBA

The League shall obtain and provide to the NHLPA any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance: (i) kept or maintained by the League; or (ii) retained by any Club. The NHLPA shall provide to the League any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance kept or maintained by the NHLPA.

The NHLPA doesn't maintain their own database for advanced player stats?

 

[ODAAT]

I dunno.

JP Barry, perhaps the toughest agent to deal with Allowed David Pastrnak to sign for just over $6.6 million. McAvoy's agent is Rick Curran who has half a dozen NHL players, just let Kevin Labanc sign a 1 year $1 million deal and who would have thought that?

As for Heinen's arbitration, advanced stats are not admissible in arbitration. Only official league stats available on their website for all to see are admissible.

Dom, if I may, how do these arbitration meetings work, do the players and their agents, along with Bruin reps sit in a room and discuss the positives and negatives of a player and then try to come up with a number based on their reasoning with an arbitrator sitting in on them who then makes his/her decision?

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Seguin signed for 6 years at $5.75M AAV back in 2013. How is that a bridge deal?

Young kids can grow up and get their act together. Off ice stuff played into it but we traded him because at the time the contract was deemed too big off the playoff no show. Had to clear room to bend over for Iginla.

We also thought it was outrageous to pay Phil Kessel 5 mil per even though Sturm at 4 was fine.

Pasternak isn't a Bruin if he holds out for 7 couple years ago.

Can't believe 2 prime years of 28 year old Johansson was passed up by the hockey ops. We don't like paying skill guys and hes a pretty affordable one thats sneaky skilled.

 

[YouTakeTheVan]

The NHLPA doesn't maintain their own database for advanced player stats?

There's no percentage in it because it's a 2-edged sword: agree on an advanced stat that can be used in arb, it helps half the guys, hurts the other half, no advantage for the players net net.

 

[jgatie]

Young kids can grow up and get their act together. Off ice stuff played into it but we traded him because at the time the contract was deemed too big off the playoff no show. Had to clear room to bend over for Iginla.

We also thought it was outrageous to pay Phil Kessel 5 mil per even though Sturm at 4 was fine.

Pasternak isn't a Bruin if he holds out for 7 couple years ago.

Can't believe 2 prime years of 28 year old Johansson was passed up by the hockey ops. We don't like paying skill guys and hes a pretty affordable one thats sneaky skilled.

What does any of this have to do with the fact someone claimed a 6 year 5.75 AAV contract in 2013 was a "bridge deal"?

 

[member 96824]

I dunno.

JP Barry, perhaps the toughest agent to deal with Allowed David Pastrnak to sign for just over $6.6 million. McAvoy's agent is Rick Curran who has half a dozen NHL players, just let Kevin Labanc sign a 1 year $1 million deal and who would have thought that?

As for Heinen's arbitration, advanced stats are not admissible in arbitration. Only official league stats available on their website for all to see are admissible.

What about the “enhanced” section on NHL.com? Those are essentially Corsi and Fenwick, but just not given the names

 

[Number8]

Sorry, they don't have to be available on the website. But any stat the NHL maintains or the NHLPA - those are the only admissible stats.

Section 12.9 (h) of the CBA

The League shall obtain and provide to the NHLPA any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance: (i) kept or maintained by the League; or (ii) retained by any Club. The NHLPA shall provide to the League any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance kept or maintained by the NHLPA.

Very surprised the NHLPA hasn't ponied up the funds to hire an advanced statistics team years ago then. Cost would probably run in the ballpark of what Heinen might lose if the advanced stats on hand between NHL and NHLPA aren't very robust.

 

[Number8]

There's no percentage in it because it's a 2-edged sword: agree on an advanced stat that can be used in arb, it helps half the guys, hurts the other half, no advantage for the players net net.

Excellent point. Negates the point I made just above. NHLPA has to serve everyone -- those with good advanced stats and those with bad advanced stats. Thanks.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The NHLPA doesn't maintain their own database for advanced player stats?

there are things like shot attempt & zone start stats on the NHL website, but that's the bulk of their "advanced" stats. They don't even use the common names for them like corsi or fenwick. There are other annoying things about them like if you look up a player's points per 60 it's in all situations which is not the common default for that stat (you'd usually want to know points per 60 at 5v5) and you can't filter by situation on most stats.

I'd be surprised if the league is keeping any advanced stats beyond what you can view on their website.

 

[Deal Law]

Sorry, they don't have to be available on the website. But any stat the NHL maintains or the NHLPA - those are the only admissible stats.

Section 12.9 (h) of the CBA

The League shall obtain and provide to the NHLPA any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance: (i) kept or maintained by the League; or (ii) retained by any Club. The NHLPA shall provide to the League any statistics relative to any aspect of Player performance kept or maintained by the NHLPA.

This is the interesting part of this clause. I assume most, if not all, Clubs maintain advanced stats on all of their players. The question is (and the language hints at this), does the league, and thus by extension the PA through this clause, have "subpoena" power over the statistical records maintained by its clubs? If so, then they should be able to obtain and provide advanced stats for purposes of arb hearings. Additionally, the term "statistics" is not capitalized, and thus I assume not a defined term within the agreement, and would therefore be open to interpretation (i.e., PA could ask the league to obtain advanced stats records from the Bruins and because "statistics" is not defined to exclude anything within the confines of the agreement, the league would have to comply).

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Well Beleskey and Seidenberg will be coming off the books for 3+ and KMiller’s 2.5... figure the cap will rise a bit and you’re getting close to that 8 mil figure.

good point about the buyout money... lets look quickly at next year

we have 46.5 mill committed to 11 players contracts

we likely will have McAvoy/carlo/Heinen around for lets say 13.5 mill just to be optimistic

thats Bergeron,pastrnak,marchand.krejci.heinen,kuraly,backes,and lindolm up front
and then McAvoy,carlo,clifton,moore,kamfer and rask on the back end

14 players... 60 million

lets say that this years overage and next years cap raise are around the same to keep this more simple

we have 9 players to sign for around 20 million.

will krug get around 7.5? lets see how things shake out... might be less
will coyle get close to kevin hayes money? im going to say more like 5 mill
will debrusk be in that 5 mill club if he scores 30?

so if im right and this trio comes in around 15-18 mill... we will have around 3-5 mill to round out our team with 6 holes to fill

obviously it becomes easier if we move backes/moore and replace their 8.5 mill contract with a couple elc guys...

so maybe 9-11 mill to get 6 depth players signed. will we be wanting wagner or Nordstrom back? will kuhlman earn a raise? would chara be back? and how can I forget about grezlyck… got to figure a 2 mill raise for him seems almost certain

honestly... the cap looks pretty tight in 2 years time even if we dont add another 4-5 mill per year player now. just keeping the guys we wanted to keep might end up taking all the money

and im planning to move backes/moore/miller... its still tight... even with those guys gone its still tight

so are we moving krejci or krug to import the new upgrades some of you want? the money has to come from somewhere. which of our current cap commitments are we planning on getting rid of to fit a ferland now?

is it Heinen's 3 million cap hit that you could live without? willing to replace halak with a million dollar backup? trade coyle if we cant afford to resign him anyhow?

where do we find the money?

 

[Therick67]

good point about the buyout money... lets look quickly at next year

we have 46.5 mill committed to 11 players contracts

we likely will have McAvoy/carlo/Heinen around for lets say 13.5 mill just to be optimistic

thats Bergeron,pastrnak,marchand.krejci.heinen,kuraly,backes,and lindolm up front
and then McAvoy,carlo,clifton,moore,kamfer and rask on the back end

14 players... 60 million

lets say that this years overage and next years cap raise are around the same to keep this more simple

we have 9 players to sign for around 20 million.

will krug get around 7.5? lets see how things shake out... might be less
will coyle get close to kevin hayes money? im going to say more like 5 mill
will debrusk be in that 5 mill club if he scores 30?

so if im right and this trio comes in around 15-18 mill... we will have around 3-5 mill to round out our team with 6 holes to fill

obviously it becomes easier if we move backes/moore and replace their 8.5 mill contract with a couple elc guys...

so maybe 9-11 mill to get 6 depth players signed. will we be wanting wagner or Nordstrom back? will kuhlman earn a raise? would chara be back? and how can I forget about grezlyck… got to figure a 2 mill raise for him seems almost certain

honestly... the cap looks pretty tight in 2 years time even if we dont add another 4-5 mill per year player now. just keeping the guys we wanted to keep might end up taking all the money

and im planning to move backes/moore/miller... its still tight... even with those guys gone its still tight

so are we moving krejci or krug to import the new upgrades some of you want? the money has to come from somewhere. which of our current cap commitments are we planning on getting rid of to fit a ferland now?

is it Heinen's 3 million cap hit that you could live without? willing to replace halak with a million dollar backup? trade coyle if we cant afford to resign him anyhow?

where do we find the money?

And that's with Bergeron, Marchand and Pasta on good contracts.....

 

[Boston Bandit]

#BREAKING Former Nashville Predators Captain Greg Johnson Passes Away.

I remember him. RIP