Next Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Doughty + Tavares right?

While keeping Nylander, Matthews and Marner.

Fact is the Leafs don't really have the cap to sign Tavares next year, when performance bonuses are taken into consideration (which folks don't consider ) Maybe, maybe the Leafs could do if they could rid of another expensive piece. One reason I didn't like the Marleau signing, it has hamstrung the Leafs for the next two years. And Doughty. The Leafs would have overpay to get him. LA is his home, the Kings are a contender, I really don't see him leaving. The Leafs aren't different than other teams. They only have so much cap. If some big cap money is going to the big three in future, there might not be enough money for another big signing. But there might be other lower talent UFAs, who might consider the Leafs and Toronto better than some cities. But let's say in three years, Calgary or Edmonton have a real shot at the Cup Final, some western Canada boys might really think those two teams are the place to play, especially if "home" is a deciding factor.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Toronto has the best management and coaching and a very strong and deep roster. It'll be them. Winnipeg has a good shot as well. I don't see anyone else winning it any time soon

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Edmonton likely is better than Toronto - one awful season doesnt change that unless Toronto wins this year.

Edmonton is likely worse than Toronto tbh

 

[M2Beezy]

Toronto
Edmonton
Calgary

 

[Pay Carl]

Winnipeg is built like a championship team

 

[Brock Radunske]

In terms of likelihood

Winnipeg
Toronto
Calgary
Edmonton
Ottawa
Vancouver
Montreal

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Winnipeg first and then Calgary. They are the most complete teams.
The others have too many holes to fill still and are years away.
I see Edmonton as a dark horse too as they have the best young player in the world.

 

[Tkachuky]

Winnipeg first and then Calgary. They are the most complete teams.
The others have too many holes to fill still and are years away.

No. Leafs are a point ahead of the Flames therefore they are better and will win a cup before the Flames.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

No. Leafs are a point ahead of the Flames therefore they are better and will win a cup before the Flames.

The Leafs have essentially been a .500 team for a while now after a fast start. They have good depth at forward and a very good goalie but the defense still needs a lot of work. And the forwards need to commit to playing defense.

 

[Volica]

Toronto has the best management and coaching and a very strong and deep roster. It'll be them. Winnipeg has a good shot as well. I don't see anyone else winning it any time soon

From what point of view is that?
Lou's a HoF'er, but he also set Jersey back a solid 5 years with his GM moves before he jumped ship. The scouting staff is not 'better' than anyone else in the NHL. When's the last time Toronto found a game changer in anything but the first round in the past decade?

That roster is deep. Upfront. At the backend? Three middle pairing guys playing as top 3D and a 3rd pairing that's garbage if I've ever seen it.

I agree, on the Winnipeg front.
I see the Jets as the clear Canadian favourite this year. Likely if someone wins it this year, I take them. I take Calgary far before I take the Leafs after them. Significantly more defensive depth. An all-star goalie. balance 12 forwards deep... Including one of the best lines in the NHL (Gaudreau) and one of the best two-way lines in the NHL (Chucky/Backs).

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Toronto
Winnipeg
Calgary
Edmonton
Vancouver
Montreal

 

[Halla]

Edmonton likely is better than Toronto - one awful season doesnt change that unless Toronto wins this year.

yeah no. One good season doesnt change the fact that Edmonton is STILL awful.
1 playoff appearance in 12 years. not really much more to say is there?
nice to see em as the laughingstock of the league again after that one outlier

 

[Halla]

And how did you make that observation?

Any hockey fan can see their roster and realize they are underachieving by a massive amount. Not to mention they now have Pulj and Nurse is twice as good as he was last year.

I cant explain why they are that bad right now but its easy to see their roster on paper isnt the reason. Probably the same reason the Giants randomly did so poorly this NFL year? Sometimes seasons dont go your way

by looking at stats?

they have been a high 60/low 70 pt team for all but one year of the last decade. make all the excuses they want, but mcdavid doesnt cover up the fact they have no depth and their D is atrocious

 

[Halla]

During that time Winnipeg has existed TML have grand total of one PO series win (1 in 11 seasons, Jets have played 6 seasons) and 2 PO appearances during that 11 seasons. I don't think thats something to brag about.

but still havent won a playoff game though right?
point still stands that they are VERY inexperienced. the leafs arent far off but at least they had a good test last year.
the jets getting swept? meh not so much

 

[Snakepit]

Winnipeg
Calgary
Toronto

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I think it'll be a few years for any of them. But either the jets or the Oilers if they can get their shit together.

 

[Gurilla]

Toronto has the best management and coaching and a very strong and deep roster. It'll be them. Winnipeg has a good shot as well. I don't see anyone else winning it any time soon

Leafs board seems to hate Babcock on more nights than not. I'm not sure if this is much of a selling point anymore.

 

[Kamiccolo]

From what point of view is that?
Lou's a HoF'er, but he also set Jersey back a solid 5 years with his GM moves before he jumped ship. The scouting staff is not 'better' than anyone else in the NHL. When's the last time Toronto found a game changer in anything but the first round in the past decade?

That roster is deep. Upfront. At the backend? Three middle pairing guys playing as top 3D and a 3rd pairing that's garbage if I've ever seen it.

I agree, on the Winnipeg front.
I see the Jets as the clear Canadian favourite this year. Likely if someone wins it this year, I take them. I take Calgary far before I take the Leafs after them. Significantly more defensive depth. An all-star goalie. balance 12 forwards deep... Including one of the best lines in the NHL (Gaudreau) and one of the best two-way lines in the NHL (Chucky/Backs).

Oh man this post. Ok I will play along.

Lou's a HoF'er, but he also set Jersey back a solid 5 years with his GM moves before he jumped ship.

I don't see what his last 5 years have to do with what he has done in Toronto. People said the same about Rutherford and Carolina and look what he did to the Pens. Many consider him one of the best now.

The scouting staff is not 'better' than anyone else in the NHL. When's the last time Toronto found a game changer in anything but the first round in the past decade?

Alright so this is kind of a weird one because nearly all the scouting staff were fired when this new management took over so it's not really applicable. From them I would say Brown (6th round pick) fits that.

With this current group while it is too early to say, Dermott (2nd rounder) has made the team and already is a top 4 D here, so I would say within the last two years. This is also ignoring Liljegren and his potential, as well as the scouting job they have done to bring in talent (Zaitsev, Sosh, Rosen, Borgman, etc)

That roster is deep. Upfront. At the backend? Three middle pairing guys playing as top 3D and a 3rd pairing that's garbage if I've ever seen it.

This is just uninformed. I mean is there a point in addressing this? Rielly is top 10 in D scoring while being a strong two way player this year and facing top competition. If he is a 2nd pairing D then there are 60+ D better than him which is laughable. Regardless this point seems to be out of desperation or emotion rather than fact.

I agree, on the Winnipeg front.
I see the Jets as the clear Canadian favourite this year. Likely if someone wins it this year, I take them. I take Calgary far before I take the Leafs after them. Significantly more defensive depth. An all-star goalie. balance 12 forwards deep... Including one of the best lines in the NHL (Gaudreau) and one of the best two-way lines in the NHL (Chucky/Backs).

Fair enough you are allowed your opinion. However those teams are significantly older (core players) and haven't achieved anything. Calgary's defense has been vastly over rated for years now. The Jets have had one good half season. Every other fanbase has been told to prove it again, Jets haven't proven it even over a full season yet.

I would say Toronto has an argument for most locked potential. Two kids "slumping" while matching their last year totals at 20 and 21. They'll get locked up to reasonable deals. A 20 year old franchise center who is better than any player on those two teams at his age with more potential left.

And a defense that is very under rated on HF with more pieces coming and this is without a trade to add an impact piece.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Leafs board seems to hate Babcock on more nights than not. I'm not sure if this is much of a selling point anymore.

They are frustrated with his playing plugs (Polak, Komarov) first line and top pairing minutes over better players and refusing to use the skill players in key situations (over time and stacking lines late in games, on the PP, etc).

Matthews has been getting 2nd PP time, Marner going to the 4th line is his only "line juggling" he does and he seems more concerned with getting matchups than winning the game.

Now, these criticisms did not exists before the year, and he has made these changes the last few games. Some speculate it was for development reasons or contracts, I don't know.

I can tell you though the team has been bad since December, and any fan base turns on the coach during a slump.

 

[Volica]

Oh man this post. Ok I will play along.

Sweet, me too.

I don't see what his last 5 years have to do with what he has done in Toronto. People said the same about Rutherford and Carolina and look what he did to the Pens. Many consider him one of the best now.

What did he do with the Pens? Outside of taking advantage of Toronto on the Kessel front, and getting Schultz out of Edmonton who was being run out of town; he literally just made sure he didn't trade Crosby or Malkin. Now his 'load up' moves are starting to hurt him this season. For some reason, Leafs fans love pointing at the Pens for some reasons, and yet their situations are nothing alike.

Alright so this is kind of a weird one because nearly all the scouting staff were fired when this new management took over so it's not really applicable. From them I would say Brown (6th round pick) fits that.

With this current group while it is too early to say, Dermott (2nd rounder) has made the team and already is a top 4 D here, so I would say within the last two years. This is also ignoring Liljegren and his potential, as well as the scouting job they have done to bring in talent (Zaitsev, Sosh, Rosen, Borgman, etc)

Brown isn't a game changer. He's a middle six winger. I'm talking about finding guys like Parayko or Gaudreau. Liljegren's a first round pick. Of the guys on this list, only Zaitsev is of consequence, and is a terrific find. That being said, they rolled out the red carpet for the guy compared to the other teams aiming to acquire him.
I also tend to just ignore guys who aren't in the NHL yet. Simply because it is too early. How many times have we seen 'X is a top 4D for sure' only to have them never be anything in the NHL?

This is just uninformed. I mean is there a point in addressing this? Rielly is top 10 in D scoring while being a strong two way player this year and facing top competition. If he is a 2nd pairing D then there are 60+ D better than him which is laughable. Regardless this point seems to be out of desperation or emotion rather than fact.

Oddly enough, Gardiner, Zaitsev and Hainsey all have high Quality of Competition metrics and play more minutes. Weird, so much desperation in legitimate numbers. So much emotion there.
As a Flames fan I got to hear how Dougie Hamilton was a 4/5D over the past few season (oddly enough, by a lot of Leafs fans) because he didn't play top pair minutes and he faced lower QoC. I don't see Rielly as a guy you can comfortably get deep in the playoffs with as your 1D.

Fair enough you are allowed your opinion. However those teams are significantly older (core players) and haven't achieved anything. Calgary's defense has been vastly over rated for years now. The Jets have had one good half season. Every other fanbase has been told to prove it again, Jets haven't proven it even over a full season yet.
I would say Toronto has an argument for most locked potential. Two kids "slumping" while matching their last year totals at 20 and 21. They'll get locked up to reasonable deals. A 20 year old franchise center who is better than any player on those two teams at his age with more potential left.
And a defense that is very under rated on HF with more pieces coming and this is without a trade to add an impact piece.

I'm excited to see how young cores stack up (start of the year numbers)
Winnipeg: Laine, Scheifele, Ehlers, Morrissey & Connor: 21.2 Years old, 160 points this year; 1 round of playoffs.
Toronto: Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly & Brown: 21.2 Years old, 152 points this year 0 rounds of playoffs.
Calgary: Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk & Bennett: 22 Years old, 170 points this year, 3 rounds of playoffs.

Calgary's defense hasn't given up more than 3 goals in over 20 games now. Consistently a top shot suppressing and possession team. #overrated. Jets have had an excellent team for a while now, and below, below average goaltending (like the Flames).

Outside of Matthews, I'd say Ehlers and Laine have more untapped potential than Nylander and Marner. I'd also argue that Tkachuk and Bennett do as well; considering Bennett's almost completely untapped but shows glimpses of dominant play.

Leafs defense is rated where it should be. It's one of the bottom 10 in the league. They give up a ton of shots and chances; if not for a good team defensive structure, this would be a hurting unit. A trade to land an impact piece would cost one of those 'elite untapped potential, great cap hit, amazing' players.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Sweet, me too.





What did he do with the Pens? Outside of taking advantage of Toronto on the Kessel front, and getting Schultz out of Edmonton who was being run out of town; he literally just made sure he didn't trade Crosby or Malkin. Now his 'load up' moves are starting to hurt him this season. For some reason, Leafs fans love pointing at the Pens for some reasons, and yet their situations are nothing alike.




Brown isn't a game changer. He's a middle six winger. I'm talking about finding guys like Parayko or Gaudreau. Liljegren's a first round pick. Of the guys on this list, only Zaitsev is of consequence, and is a terrific find. That being said, they rolled out the red carpet for the guy compared to the other teams aiming to acquire him.
I also tend to just ignore guys who aren't in the NHL yet. Simply because it is too early. How many times have we seen 'X is a top 4D for sure' only to have them never be anything in the NHL?



Oddly enough, Gardiner, Zaitsev and Hainsey all have high Quality of Competition metrics and play more minutes. Weird, so much desperation in legitimate numbers. So much emotion there.
As a Flames fan I got to hear how Dougie Hamilton was a 4/5D over the past few season (oddly enough, by a lot of Leafs fans) because he didn't play top pair minutes and he faced lower QoC. I don't see Rielly as a guy you can comfortably get deep in the playoffs with as your 1D.



I'm excited to see how young cores stack up (start of the year numbers)
Winnipeg: Laine, Scheifele, Ehlers, Morrissey & Connor: 21.2 Years old, 160 points this year; 1 round of playoffs.
Toronto: Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly & Brown: 21.2 Years old, 152 points this year 0 rounds of playoffs.
Calgary: Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk & Bennett: 22 Years old, 170 points this year, 3 rounds of playoffs.

Calgary's defense hasn't given up more than 3 goals in over 20 games now. Consistently a top shot suppressing and possession team. #overrated. Jets have had an excellent team for a while now, and below, below average goaltending (like the Flames).

Outside of Matthews, I'd say Ehlers and Laine have more untapped potential than Nylander and Marner. I'd also argue that Tkachuk and Bennett do as well; considering Bennett's almost completely untapped but shows glimpses of dominant play.

Leafs defense is rated where it should be. It's one of the bottom 10 in the league. They give up a ton of shots and chances; if not for a good team defensive structure, this would be a hurting unit. A trade to land an impact piece would cost one of those 'elite untapped potential, great cap hit, amazing' players.

Come on man give me a break. If you have a D that isn't sheltered that puts up good possession stats in the top 10 for scoring defensemen, that is undeniably a top pair guy if not a #1. Unless you think Burns isn't a #1 because Pickles and Braun get the shutdown match-ups. There is no evidence that Ehlers, Bennett and Tkachuk have more untapped potential than Marner and Nylander, especially Tkachuk and Bennett. Tkachuk and Bennett haven't apporached the level Marner and Nylander were at last year. And despite teams working harder to shut them down this season (or so HF told us over and over in the summer) they are pacing to match their totals. Mike Smith has been an average to below average starter every year since 2012 with the exception of this one. Calling him an all-star calibre goalie seems a little duplicitous.

 

[Tkachuky]

Come on man give me a break. If you have a D that isn't sheltered that puts up good possession stats in the top 10 for scoring defensemen, that is undeniably a top pair guy if not a #1. Unless you think Burns isn't a #1 because Pickles and Braun get the shutdown match-ups. There is no evidence that Ehlers, Bennett and Tkachuk have more untapped potential than Marner and Nylander, especially Tkachuk and Bennett. Tkachuk and Bennett haven't apporached the level Marner and Nylander were at last year. And despite teams working harder to shut them down this season (or so HF told us over and over in the summer) they are pacing to match their totals. Mike Smith has been an average to below average starter every year since 2012 with the exception of this one. Calling him an all-star calibre goalie seems a little duplicitous.

I would not trade Chucky for either Marner or Nylander...

 

[cneely]

Fair enough you are allowed your opinion. However those teams are significantly older (core players) and haven't achieved anything. Calgary's defense has been vastly over rated for years now. The Jets have had one good half season. Every other fanbase has been told to prove it again, Jets haven't proven it even over a full season yet.

Winnipeg's core is not significantly older. Yes, they have Buff and Wheeler, but I would suggest the core is more like Laine, Schefele, Ehlers, Trouba, Morrissey and Hellebuyck.
The Jets should have been better over the last year or two, but injuries and sub par goaltending from a first year starter killed them last year. On paper, they have the most talent.

I would say Toronto has an argument for most locked potential. Two kids "slumping" while matching their last year totals at 20 and 21. They'll get locked up to reasonable deals. A 20 year old franchise center who is better than any player on those two teams at his age with more potential left.

Scheifele and Ehlers are already locked up.

And a defense that is very under rated on HF with more pieces coming and this is without a trade to add an impact piece.

This, IMO is their only weak area, and I think it's reasonably certain they will address it over the next season or so.

 

[Critical13]

Leafs board seems to hate Babcock on more nights than not. I'm not sure if this is much of a selling point anymore.

Peg felt the same about Mo, but the tune has changed. Winning does that, and fans are fickle. From a purely historical view, Babs is pretty good.

I think Toronto and Calgary are #1 and 2. Peg is #3. The other 3 are hard to rank, because none seem to be contenders for the next couple years, unless Montreal hits a jackpot (they are closest to the top 3).

Maybe Vancouver wins the lottery...then they are right near the top.

As of now though, I will stick with Toronto -> Calgary -> Winnipeg.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Sweet, me too.





What did he do with the Pens? Outside of taking advantage of Toronto on the Kessel front, and getting Schultz out of Edmonton who was being run out of town; he literally just made sure he didn't trade Crosby or Malkin. Now his 'load up' moves are starting to hurt him this season. For some reason, Leafs fans love pointing at the Pens for some reasons, and yet their situations are nothing alike.




Brown isn't a game changer. He's a middle six winger. I'm talking about finding guys like Parayko or Gaudreau. Liljegren's a first round pick. Of the guys on this list, only Zaitsev is of consequence, and is a terrific find. That being said, they rolled out the red carpet for the guy compared to the other teams aiming to acquire him.
I also tend to just ignore guys who aren't in the NHL yet. Simply because it is too early. How many times have we seen 'X is a top 4D for sure' only to have them never be anything in the NHL?



Oddly enough, Gardiner, Zaitsev and Hainsey all have high Quality of Competition metrics and play more minutes. Weird, so much desperation in legitimate numbers. So much emotion there.
As a Flames fan I got to hear how Dougie Hamilton was a 4/5D over the past few season (oddly enough, by a lot of Leafs fans) because he didn't play top pair minutes and he faced lower QoC. I don't see Rielly as a guy you can comfortably get deep in the playoffs with as your 1D.



I'm excited to see how young cores stack up (start of the year numbers)
Winnipeg: Laine, Scheifele, Ehlers, Morrissey & Connor: 21.2 Years old, 160 points this year; 1 round of playoffs.
Toronto: Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly & Brown: 21.2 Years old, 152 points this year 0 rounds of playoffs.
Calgary: Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk & Bennett: 22 Years old, 170 points this year, 3 rounds of playoffs.

Calgary's defense hasn't given up more than 3 goals in over 20 games now. Consistently a top shot suppressing and possession team. #overrated. Jets have had an excellent team for a while now, and below, below average goaltending (like the Flames).

Outside of Matthews, I'd say Ehlers and Laine have more untapped potential than Nylander and Marner. I'd also argue that Tkachuk and Bennett do as well; considering Bennett's almost completely untapped but shows glimpses of dominant play.

Leafs defense is rated where it should be. It's one of the bottom 10 in the league. They give up a ton of shots and chances; if not for a good team defensive structure, this would be a hurting unit. A trade to land an impact piece would cost one of those 'elite untapped potential, great cap hit, amazing' players.

So I am not going to really continue just because at this point it's clear we disagree and our opinions will just cycle back and forth. Time is the only answer and hopefully when that time comes one of us are able to admit we are wrong.

However I just have to respond to the bolded. What did he do? Oh nothing, just added two key pieces to the cup wins without moving any decent roster pieces. If Lou did that he'd blow this sites expectations out of the water. It would be like getting a top pairing D + a scoring winger to the Leafs without moving any of Marner, Nylander, Matthews, Kadri, Rielly, etc etc.

That part of your response is just laughable.