Next 3 years- Wheeler vs Laine

[Psych0dad]

Laine has 100pts in him, but with his play of late it's not going to happen even if you'd put him with Scheifele. Probably another healthy summer and a fresh start next year could do that. It's kind of funny to talk about what he's capable of because he looks so disinterested at times. I know part of it is that lanky skating style, but he just needs to get his feet moving more.

Yeah I did not mean he would reach 100 now if he got rest of the season with Chef. Too late for this season. Hopefully next season we get to see that.

And you are right, his lankyness makes things look rather lazy, even though he is just being smart and doing what works for him. He takes long strides because that's how he can be faster, but it looks slower than for example Wheeler who takes 2 steps to each 1 of Laine's . His acceleration is slow, that's just something he has to build on for years, maybe add some figureskating practices when he has added the required muscle to move that cruise ship.

The biggest reason why he looks lazy at times is simply the disconnect from line mates. Can't read Little, Little doesn't read him (rather executes dump and chase) so they have to overthink every situation due to lack of chem. That makes for slow play, it's reactionary rather than predictive. He doesn't look disconnected with others.

They have now started using Laine on the LW. That has made things better for him and his line, he doesn't play the 3rd man in, first forward back role as much any more from the left. That alone will help his production and his lines effectiveness.

 

[Jetcetera]

There's more rational explanations for his late rising numbers, than biological anomaly. What, he is Benjamin Button?

Anomaly: something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

Is it standard normal or expected to peak in the NHL as a top player in your 30s?
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but the man is 32 and on pace for close to 100 pts.

Recent memory I can think of only Sedin and St. Louis who scored 100 pts after 30

 

[Psych0dad]

Anomaly: something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

Is it standard normal or expected to peak in the NHL as a top player in your 30s?
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but the man is 32 and on pace for close to 100 pts.

Yes he is on pace for that and the reasons are rather apparent.

Some insight on what runs the PP in Winnipeg, also a good look at the 5 on 5 play.

Dominant power play is keeping the Jets afloat while Blake...


Here's a great read on Wheelers extension and the clouds hanging over it. Both articles behind paywall I assume.

Blake Wheeler's contract extension is a bet that winning...

 

[Romang67]

Seems a good place to once again point out that Wheeler is crushing everyone else in the league in primary assists pace on the PP the last two seasons.

The notion that he's nothing but a benefactor of great shooters playing with him since they changed his role to QBing it on the half-wall is, of course, ridiculous.

 

[Felidae]

@Psych0dad

Wheeler's increase in production by 20 plus points seems to almost exclusively be due to a higher scoring environment.

In 2016-17, he was 11th in points, just 3 less than 8th. His current and second highest point finish.

The year preceding that he was 6th in points with 78. His highest point finish of his career.

It's true that his ppg finishes have been higher the last 2 years, but it's by just 2 placements. He was 10th in 2015-16.

So whatever you're attributing to his increased production, you're severely overstating its effect. If there is any at all.

 

[Psych0dad]

Seems a good place to once again point out that Wheeler is crushing everyone else in the league in primary assists pace on the PP the last two seasons.

The notion that he's nothing but a benefactor of great shooters playing with him since they changed his role to QBing it on the half-wall is, of course, ridiculous.

The last two seasons are the ones where Laine has been the main weapon on the PP.

So you just proved my point further, then said it's ridiculous in the next sentence. Interesting take to say the least.

 

[cg98]

The last two seasons are the ones where Laine has been the main weapon on the PP.

So you just proved my point further, then said it's ridiculous in the next sentence. Interesting take to say the least.

Laine hasn't even generated any production on the power play during this horrific slump of his and you still have the audacity to say or insinuate that Wheeler's the one benefiting from Laine on the PP. What a joke. Cant wait for more of your ridiculous hot takes that will continue to be disproven.

 

[Albatros]

Laine easily, Wheeler's better now but he'll be regressing within 3 years.

 

[Psych0dad]

Laine hasn't even generated any production on the power play during this horrific slump of his and you still have the audacity to say or insinuate that Wheeler's the one benefiting from Laine on the PP. What a joke. Cant wait for more of your ridiculous hot takes that will continue to be disproven.

The whole PP has sucked during Laines slump. When the PP isn't scoring, Wheeler isn't getting the points either. Have you ever seen Jets PP and how opponents play against it? There's no other player in the league who is covered like Laine in PP. That opens more room for the remaining 4 to create chances. But due to Wheelers shot, opponents allow him room to shoot. He can hardly ever convert them to goals.

Audacity to insinuate? I didn't insinuate, I said it straight. Same thing has been said by The Athletic Jets beat writer, with analysis. He suggests it's Laine who drives the bus on PP and I agree.

It's easy to insinuate what the analysis proves. Even if it annoyed the most devoted fans of a player. It's still worth saying because it's the truth. It sucks to be a messenger of that truth because you hardly make friends by saying someones favorite is overrated. But I have more than just opinion to back it up. And someone needs to keep it real in this place of worship.

If you say to me Laine sucks 5 on 5 right now, I won't shoot the messenger. I agree with you on that and think he isn't ready to drive a line alone. I don't expect him to, not yet. But I know, based on his career so far, that he can excel and be top player in the league when ever he is playing with someone compatible. Time with Schef proved it, time with Stastny exclamated that point. He doesn't have to be able to drive a line alone, and he can still be the MVP.

Jets choose not to let the MVP out, when they pair him with the only guy who kills Laines offense. It's a choice they make knowing full well that he isn't going to produce much.


Here's another thing...if Wheeler is such a line driver, why does he have to exclusively play with the best line driver in the Jets? And why at the same time do we have to watch a driverless 2nd line? Wouldn't it make sense to have a driver on both?

I think the reason is for many, that it would expose that Wheeler isn't the line driver everyone thinks he is. A lot of fans arguing against the change are thinking it. What if Wheeler goes to 2nd line and it's even worse? What if Laines (and Scheifeles) 5 on 5 production explodes in the 1st as expected from previous experience?

Some are scared to see it, because they have so much invested in the belief that Wheeler is the best winger in Jets. He isn't, and I'm championing for that change because I have no fear about how that will turn out for Laine and Jets. They will have a monster 1st line and the 2nd line would be about the same as it is now. I could see it getting even better due to Little-Wheeler chemistry and style of play.

All I'm saying is, if someone is convinced that Wheeler is the most deserving 1st line winger, or you want to say Wheeler now and in 3 years, then you shouldn't have any problem seeing what happens when Laine plays with Chef and Wheeler with Little. They shouldn't be concerned. They should welcome the chance for Wheeler to show me wrong. If they are even a bit concerned about what it would prove , then they truly don't believe that Wheeler is the #1 winger in Jets.

 

[Plural]

Voted Wheeler, but I can see why someone takes Laine. There's a good possibility that Laine gets his act together next season and Wheeler starts regressing.

 

[snipes]

Wheeler

 

[Peggy]

It doesn't matter if the team is stacked, if it's stacked against him. He gets the least fitting center out of all the options. He can easily do more damage than anyone else in Jets roster when paired with Scheifele. Much, much more than Wheeler for example.

The reason why he isn't used in that spot is not about hockey. It's about business. Same reason why he was dropped out of 1st line when he was tearing the league a new one. Same reason they dropped him to PP2 (and put him RD so he couldn't shoot onetimers) in his rookie season after leading the NHL in scoring. Same reason why it's the 3rd season playing mostly with Little, when everyone and their dog knows he is a completely different monster away from Little.

Jets don't want that monster out, they are on a budget.

I'm not saying he doesn't have talent
But if he cant fo this in his on with half decent players on the 2nd line then hes not as good as hes projected to be yet
Wheeler was a driving force on the team before they made it to the playoffs


Laine may be my favourite player on the team but I not gonna make excuses for him
Still think he can become one if the best in the league but he certainly isn't right now
Shows flashes of greatness at times
Even with little so we need to see more of that

I don't think anyone is arguing that Kaine would have more points with scheifele either
Its the fact hes pacing for less than 70 points

 

[Alexandrov]

I think Wheeler has 3 more elite seasons left in him, and I am not encouraged by Laine's development. For me, this would have to be for next five+ years before it flips in Laine's favour.

 

[PhilJets]

Yahoo

Jets have both!!!

Keep both....

Maybe just change the C centering them

 

[Romang67]

The last two seasons are the ones where Laine has been the main weapon on the PP.

So you just proved my point further, then said it's ridiculous in the next sentence. Interesting take to say the least.

See, you seem to be under the impression that no one else in the league has a weapon like Laine on the PP. Given Wheeler's dominance in primary assist, no one in the league is even close. As people who have followed the Jets know, Wheeler's role on the PP changed drastically coinciding with his increase in assists, so despite what you seem to want to believe, Laine wasn't the only thing that changed on the PP.

Your impression is, of course, incorrect. So no, I didn't "prove your point further". The fact that you reach nonsensical conclusions doesn't mean that people actually prove your point. It just means that you reach nonsensical conclusions.

 

[Psych0dad]

See, you seem to be under the impression that no one else in the league has a weapon like Laine on the PP. Given Wheeler's dominance in primary assist, no one in the league is even close. As people who have followed the Jets know, Wheeler's role on the PP changed drastically coinciding with his increase in assists, so despite what you seem to want to believe, Laine wasn't the only thing that changed on the PP.

Your impression is, of course, incorrect. So no, I didn't "prove your point further". The fact that you reach nonsensical conclusions doesn't mean that people actually prove your point. It just means that you reach nonsensical conclusions.

You sure like to call everything that you don't agree with nonsensical. Well I guess it works, it doesn't make sense to you so it's nonsensical to you. That's subjective though.

Yeah, Wheeler's role changed in PP because the pieces in PP changed. They didn't play that kind of PP before because they didn't have the tools to successfully play it. They didn't have Laine's shot and they had a very young Scheifele then.

The PP changed entirely because the pieces in it changed and they made the logical choice of mainly trying to go through Laine. Capitals didn't play the same PP formation either when they didn't have OV.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

It doesn't matter if the team is stacked, if it's stacked against him. He gets the least fitting center out of all the options. He can easily do more damage than anyone else in Jets roster when paired with Scheifele. Much, much more than Wheeler for example.

The reason why he isn't used in that spot is not about hockey. It's about business. Same reason why he was dropped out of 1st line when he was tearing the league a new one. Same reason they dropped him to PP2 (and put him RD so he couldn't shoot onetimers) in his rookie season after leading the NHL in scoring. Same reason why it's the 3rd season playing mostly with Little, when everyone and their dog knows he is a completely different monster away from Little.

Jets don't want that monster out, they are on a budget.

Poppycock.

Laine isn't that great of an overall player (yet). Take away "the shot" and he's in the AHL.

He's earned the spot he's in: 2nd line winger and on PP#1. He's the only one responsible for it. Not Maurice, and not Chevyldayoff.

 

[Psych0dad]

Poppycock.

Laine isn't that great of an overall player (yet). Take away "the shot" and he's in the AHL.

He's earned the spot he's in: 2nd line winger and on PP#1. He's the only one responsible for it. Not Maurice, and not Chevyldayoff.

How did he earn it? Are you suggesting he sucked so he had to be dropped down the lineup? Or did someone perform better in the 1st line? I need numbers to back it up, so provide them.

I have to tell you though, you won't find numbers to back it up so might as well throw your hands up now and just admit it's your personal opinion and not based on any kind of actual facts.

Take away the skating of McDavid and they'll be playing in the calder cup finals. The whole idea of "only if this and this were removed, a person would be an AHL player" is just ridiculous. Those things are not taken away, so don't speculate on useless bs. They DO have those traits and they will use them. You have to evaluate the whole package, not just pick and choose what parts you should ignore.

 

[EhlersChin]

How did he earn it? Are you suggesting he sucked so he had to be dropped down the lineup? Or did someone perform better in the 1st line? I need numbers to back it up, so provide them.

I have to tell you though, you won't find numbers to back it up so might as well throw your hands up now and just admit it's your personal opinion and not based on any kind of actual facts.

Take away the skating of McDavid and they'll be playing in the calder cup finals. The whole idea of "only if this and this were removed, a person would be an AHL player" is just ridiculous. Those things are not taken away, so don't speculate on useless bs. They DO have those traits and they will use them. You have to evaluate the whole package, not just pick and choose what parts you should ignore.

Stop comparing laine to 97. You've been doing it for years now and it's starting to look even more foolish after your 85g 190pt for pate isnt gonna be close this season. I know it hurts to hear but not one gm takes pate over 97.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

How did he earn it? Are you suggesting he sucked so he had to be dropped down the lineup? Or did someone perform better in the 1st line? I need numbers to back it up, so provide them.

I have to tell you though, you won't find numbers to back it up so might as well throw your hands up now and just admit it's your personal opinion and not based on any kind of actual facts.

Take away the skating of McDavid and they'll be playing in the calder cup finals. The whole idea of "only if this and this were removed, a person would be an AHL player" is just ridiculous. Those things are not taken away, so don't speculate on useless bs. They DO have those traits and they will use them. You have to evaluate the whole package, not just pick and choose what parts you should ignore.

I don't need numbers. I've seen him play on the top line with Scheifele and Wheeler. He can't keep up with them and even if he could, when facing the other team's top line, Laine is prone to coughing up the puck and losing board battles. On the other hand, he fully deserves to be on PP#1.

But don't fool yourself, Laine is on the second line because of his play, not because Maurice doesn't like him or the Jets are cheap. There are THREE better wingers for the top line (Wheeler, Ehlers and Connor).

 

[Psych0dad]

Stop comparing laine to 97. You've been doing it for years now and it's starting to look even more foolish after your 85g 190pt for pate isnt gonna be close this season. I know it hurts to hear but not one gm takes pate over 97.

What looks foolish is:

A) I did not compare them in any way. If you can't comprehend what you read, why choose text based forums? Most people would grasp the concept that if you remove a players best assets, they get significantly worse.

B) Your continuing lies about my predictions. They keep changing day to day. Sometimes it's 90 goals and 180 points, some days 80 goals and 190 points and what ever childish, ridiculous variations of your lies. I have asked you countless times to show me the original prediction, but SOMEHOW you can't provide. I'm not interested in what your imagination tells you that I have predicted. Why the F are you still continuing with it? Are you trying to make it known that you can't even keep your imagined stories straight? Because that's what you are achieving. If lying on the internet is your hobby, then I just feel sorry for you. Must be a lonely, pointless life.

 

[Psych0dad]

I don't need numbers. I've seen him play on the top line with Scheifele and Wheeler.

Well then we have nothing to discuss. You don't care for facts. You want a subjective review and I want an objective review. Subjective reviews have about the same use as toilet paper.

And when have you seen him play with Scheifele and Wheeler and HE couldn't keep up? When did this happen? Timeframe? What kind of a sample are we talking about here? I need to know what you are referring to before I can comment.

Because, you know, they have played about 2 periods together in the last 2 seasons and they didn't play together in the 1st season. And that 2 periods happened when Scheifele came back last season from his injury. The reason why they removed Laine from that line was that Scheifele was bad (for a good while after his return) and the whole line looked awful. Laine was one of the few ones in the team scoring at that time, so they moved him away from those guys so he could help the team while first line struggled.

So, I'm just a bit interested in your "I've seen him play with Scheifele and Wheeler". I know it has happened, but not for any extended period of time.

Did you see him with Perreault and Scheifele? What did you think of that?

 

[EhlersChin]

What looks foolish is:

A) I did not compare them in any way. If you can't comprehend what you read, why choose text based forums? Most people would grasp the concept that if you remove a players best assets, they get significantly worse.

B) Your continuing lies about my predictions. They keep changing day to day. Sometimes it's 90 goals and 180 points, some days 80 goals and 190 points and what ever childish, ridiculous variations of your lies. I have asked you countless times to show me the original prediction, but SOMEHOW you can't provide. I'm not interested in what your imagination tells you that I have predicted. Why the F are you still continuing with it? Are you trying to make it known that you can't even keep your imagined stories straight? Because that's what you are achieving. If lying on the internet is your hobby, then I just feel sorry for you. Must be a lonely, pointless life.

Calm down son, everyone knows about your terrible pate predictions and now the long list of excuses that accompany them. We dont need to re-hash all your errors or we would be here forever. Sometimes you need a reminding of your piss poor predictions, dont spit the dummy at me, you made the predictions.

 

[tony d]

Close but Laine for me. I believe he'll bounce back.

 

[libertarian]

I think Wheeler has 3 more elite seasons left in him, and I am not encouraged by Laine's development. For me, this would have to be for next five+ years before it flips in Laine's favour.

Agree I just hope that when Laine exceeds Wheeler in production is because Laine is far better player then today instead of Wheeler regressing because of age.