News Article: News & Notes XXXIII: hockey pending

[WreckingCrew]

I think it's fair to say there's an emerging movement...call it an ideology and give it whatever name you like...that is strongly influenced by CRT and Intersectionality. Does anyone disagree?

The previous suggestion was that said ideology is counterproductive to "getting normal, ordinary people of different races to respect each other". Discussing this actual point seems more interesting instead of critiquing what constitutes an ideology or disagreeing with the proposed name.

To me this is relevant to the discussion of why hockey shut down. Many people viewed the George Floyd and Jacob Blake videos and concluded that the root cause of those incidents was racism. The NHL's recent response to the Blake incident was that they "Stand Against Racism".

Now, unless I'm missing critical information, there is zero known/explicit evidence that racism played a factor in either case.

However, new ideology believers would say/assume both cases were examples/manifestations of an inherently racist system/country simply because of the skin color of those involved...and of course this is a system/country that can only truly be fixed by first being torn down (hence why there is support for torching police stations and business which are part of the current and inherently racist system).

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug these days...news and media appeal to their base this way and once it's set in, no amount of evidence can seem to change someone's mind.

"This anecdote agrees with my thoughts therefore it's evidence"

*additional details come out*

"Irrelevant, that's just trying to distract/deflect the root issue"

It almost always boils down to "the end justifies the means" vs "the means justifies the end" (result vs path taken). It's kind of like the NHL where they have a tendancy to penalize and punish the result (injury) moreso than intent (malicious vs accident), but a lot of folks would rather see that swapped (i.e. remember Neal getting only 1 game suspension for cross-ice charging w/intent to injure BOTH Giroux and Couturier but neither was injured)

 

[tarheelhockey]

I am just gonna say that as an outsider I feel like the majority of solutions to current issues in the US is radical and as we should know, such shit won't work in the long run. Unless you guys want a civil war followed by a clean slate for everyone. That'd work but... weigh that thought.

The current issues are clustered around a bunch of key indicators (economic mobility, wealth disparity, size of middle class) which are going in a the wrong direction at a runaway pace. Civil unrest is a pretty normal thing in places which experience this, and the next step after civil unrest is something none of us want to see.

The solutions might be radical and they might be moderate. But there needs to be some kind of solution because the current path leads to a Very Bad Place.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

The current issues are clustered around a bunch of key indicators (economic mobility, wealth disparity, size of middle class) which are going in a the wrong direction at a runaway pace. Civil unrest is a pretty normal thing in places which experience this, and the next step after civil unrest is something none of us want to see.

The solutions might be radical and they might be moderate. But there needs to be some kind of solution because the current path leads to a Very Bad Place.

The current Path is radical on its own. So I don't disagree.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree Torching PNC is a bad move

I never said I agreed with that

 

[emptyNedder]

Many of our discussions refer to how Tulsky sees things. Well, the civil unrest/social inequality question has a Tulsky equivalent. His name is Peter Turchin.

You decide if he is a fellow traveler or hard-headed logician.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The current issues are clustered around a bunch of key indicators (economic mobility, wealth disparity, size of middle class) which are going in a the wrong direction at a runaway pace. Civil unrest is a pretty normal thing in places which experience this, and the next step after civil unrest is something none of us want to see.

The solutions might be radical and they might be moderate. But there needs to be some kind of solution because the current path leads to a Very Bad Place.

It's going to get worse before it gets better. The officers that killed Floyd are going to walk. The longer body cam video had Floyd complaining about being unable to breathe before the officers even touched him. That, combined with the drugs in his system, make it easy to provide reasonable doubt that they had much to do with his death. That verdict will easily reignite the powder keg.

The only hope is that if that verdict does come down, it'll be in a time with better leadership in place, when the country isn't also dealing with a pandemic.

Because that weird combination of circumstances really set this whole thing up. If not for Covid, most people would have had other things on their mind, more personal things to worry about. But since the country was essentially shut down when the video was released, EVERYONE saw it and since no one had jobs to go back to, EVERYONE was up to protest, riot, whathaveyou. Which in turn led to the unbelievable amount of examples of police brutality in those protests, and eventually the very shitty circumstances we find ourselves in today.

 

[Lempo]

Aww man I was just halfway through writing my HF manifesto on how the alien reptile master race is using planetary anchor babies to acquire every last Papa John's in america and convert them into sex dungeons where white suburban families are kidnapped and held against their will. The only way to stop them is water. You see they are the most powerful and scary threat to ever exist but also dissolve like the wicked witch of the west if they get wet. It's an M Night Shyamalan doublethink masterpiece.

 

[The Stranger]

Some people may have said that, but most people definitely did not say that.

Agreed. But I would point out that I never used the term most or suggested that was the case. Most people probably don't know what CRT or intersectionality are let alone agree with them. My post was specifically addressing the ideology discussion and how it could be relevant to the NHL being shut down.

Has anyone here ever heard a single person state they support torching police stations and businesses? As a policy? Who exactly believes this "new ideology"?

Here's one from the President of NY BLM.

Here's another one from a guy running for State government in MN "you think we give a F*** about burning Hugo down".

The sensationalism is just silly. One can recognize systemic racism and desire to work toward changing it without being a Tucker Carlson fever dream. The World has always become a better place when equality of human rights improved. Flat out.

Who is arguing against equality of human rights?

 

[hblueridgegal]

Sorry to disrupt the flow of these weighty topics with superficial fluff..but this was too perfect..had to post.

Hockey Clubs as dogs:

 

[Lempo]

Actually I know a police department that is badly in need of torching, and I'm kind of anxiously waiting for the results of a figurative Molotov's cocktail that very recently got thrown at their direction. Alas, the blue code of protecting corrupt colleagues no matter what seems to be universal.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Agreed. But I would point out that I never used the term most or suggested that was the case. Most people probably don't know what CRT or intersectionality are let alone agree with them. My post was specifically addressing the ideology discussion and how it could be relevant to the NHL being shut down.

Maybe I'm misreading your previous post, but it looks like you're saying a new ideology has emerged from CRT/intersectionality which promotes "burning it all down" both figuratively and literally.

I'm sure there are people out there who believe that, but we're talking about a radical fringe equivalent to people who bunker up on a mountain in Idaho. Except these people bunker up in autonomous collectives in Oregon. They're sort of people who exist almost as a caricature of themselves, have little in common with ordinary citizens, and are not helpful for finding real-world solutions.

I'd strongly prefer these people (by which I mean both fringes) not become the center of the conversation.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Maybe I'm misreading your previous post, but it looks like you're saying a new ideology has emerged from CRT/intersectionality which promotes "burning it all down" both figuratively and literally.

I'm sure there are people out there who believe that, but we're talking about a radical fringe equivalent to people who bunker up on a mountain in Idaho. Except these people bunker up in autonomous collectives in Oregon. They're sort of people who exist almost as a caricature of themselves, have little in common with ordinary citizens, and are not helpful for finding real-world solutions.

I'd strongly prefer these people (by which I mean both fringes) not become the center of the conversation.

I've got nothing to add, really. I'll leave the posting to people who are more well versed in the issues, but the juxtaposition of your post and this advert is just too f***ing much.

 

[Lempo]

I've got nothing to add, really. I'll leave the posting to people who are more well versed in the issues, but the juxtaposition of your post and this advert is just too f***ing much.

View attachment 365126

It's good that google ads is keeping tarheel in check.

 

[Lempo]

And at least that's some upfront honest polling that tells you what they're after. I've answered a number of online polls at my time, and some you just could see from the options that the reputably neutral polling service vendor had set out to get the results they had been received an order for:

[ ] not at all
[ ] a moderate amount
[ ] a lot

What you actually think is "maybe a little", but with these options given you will be reported to be "a moderate amount" according to the poll, just like the paymaster wants it.

 

[The Stranger]

I'd strongly prefer these people (by which I mean both fringes) not become the center of the conversation.

I take this to mean you think I am making a fringe the center of the conversation...and that you disapprove...and that we shouldn't be discussing people who advocate for those actions.

Back to NHL relevancy...stop me anywhere you disagree...there are "movement" leaders advocating burning stuff down if they don't get what they want...lots of stuff has recently been burnt down...if there weren't allegations of racist cops in Kenosha with riots with mass property damage, the NHL would not have paused games.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Perhaps we are straying a bit from the "hockey-related questions about policing of black folks" into farther regions, and perhaps we shouldn't go too far in that direction...

Agree.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I take this to mean you think I am making a fringe the center of the conversation

Yes, I do think that is true.

People advocating to resolve political issues through violence are absolutely the insane fringe, and should not be given the platform associated with being "movement leaders".

Continuing to discuss their ideas as if they represent the mainstream is extremely dangerous, because it becomes a self-validating reduction.

That applies equally to both sides of the debate.

 

[GoldiFox]

Agreed. But I would point out that I never used the term most or suggested that was the case. Most people probably don't know what CRT or intersectionality are let alone agree with them. My post was specifically addressing the ideology discussion and how it could be relevant to the NHL being shut down.

Here's one from the President of NY BLM.

Here's another one from a guy running for State government in MN "you think we give a F*** about burning Hugo down".

Who is arguing against equality of human rights?

IMO those links are akin to posting David Duke or Richard Spencer. I don't think this line of thinking is an "emerging movement" any more than the Bugaloos or QAnon. I don't think it's honest discourse to generalize the 99% of BLM and police-reform protesters who are peaceful with fair, rational thought and action than it is to generalize the right with other fringe movements.

Look at what we have going on in our own backyard:


North Carolina Police Chief Fires Three Officers Over Racist Comments Caught On Tape

 

[tarheelhockey]

IMO those links are akin to posting David Duke or Richard Spencer. I don't think this line of thinking is an "emerging movement" any more than the Bugaloos or QAnon. I don't think it's honest discourse to generalize the 99% of BLM and police-reform protesters who are peaceful with fair, rational thought and action than it is to generalize the right with other fringe movements.

Look at what we have going on in our own backyard:


North Carolina Police Chief Fires Three Officers Over Racist Comments Caught On Tape

May as well add Todd Wright to that pile. I'm not linking the audio, whoever wants to google it can do so.

But again, that's a sheriff -- a badge-carrying public official who has actual real-life power to alter or end lives. That's more dangerous than fringe figures of any stripe.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

May as well add Todd Wright to that pile. I'm not linking the audio, whoever wants to google it can do so.

But again, that's a sheriff -- a badge-carrying public official who has actual real-life power to alter or end lives. That's more dangerous than fringe figures of any stripe.

Do not forget about the Kenosha sheriff who wants to ‘warehouse’ people for life.

I'm to the point where I think society has to come to a threshold where there are some people that aren't worth saving," Beth said. "We need to build warehouses to put these people into it and lock them away for the rest of their lives.

 

[cptjeff]

I think it's fair to say there's an emerging movement...call it an ideology and give it whatever name you like...that is strongly influenced by CRT and Intersectionality. Does anyone disagree?

The previous suggestion was that said ideology is counterproductive to "getting normal, ordinary people of different races to respect each other". Discussing this actual point seems more interesting instead of critiquing what constitutes an ideology or disagreeing with the proposed name.

To me this is relevant to the discussion of why hockey shut down. Many people viewed the George Floyd and Jacob Blake videos and concluded that the root cause of those incidents was racism. The NHL's recent response to the Blake incident was that they "Stand Against Racism".

Now, unless I'm missing critical information, there is zero known/explicit evidence that racism played a factor in either case.

However, new ideology believers would say/assume both cases were examples/manifestations of an inherently racist system/country simply because of the skin color of those involved...and of course this is a system/country that can only truly be fixed by first being torn down (hence why there is support for torching police stations and business which are part of the current and inherently racist system).

As somebody who does politics for a living, this intersectional-critical race theory-third wave feminism thing is definitely a full fledged ideology at this point. I don't see how anyone living in the real world could possibly dispute that. Call it whatever you want- "cultural marxism" is a rather charged term at this point, but it's actually not terribly far off. These academic theories whose bastardized versions created this ideology were all explicitly based on marxist theory, applying marxist group identities to groupings of identity (often referred to as "cultral" issues, though that's really a misnomer) rather than groupings of class.

Racism is a real issue, and I do think implicit racial bias was a very large factor in both the George Floyd and Jacob Blake cases. But I would also absolutely agree that this ideology is one that requires individuals to be judged first and foremost as members of guilty or not guilty groups and not as individuals, and I would agree that it's incredibly toxic. Anything that relies on judgements based on membership in a group, especially ones based on inherent characteristics like race, is fundamentally antithetical to democracy.

 

[tarheelhockey]

"cultural marxism" is a rather charged term at this point

It's charged because it was literally invented for the purpose of pushing conspiracy theories first against Jews and then against liberals broadly.

 

[cptjeff]

It's charged because it was literally invented for the purpose of pushing conspiracy theories first against Jews and then against liberals broadly.

The fact that the term was coined by nutjobs doesn't make it an inaccurate descriptor.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

We saw it play out publicly with Forslund, but were there other announcements I missed with Canes personnel. July of last year the Canes announced this Kron and Dawson promoted. Now I don’t see them On the canes staff listing.

Staff Directory

Am I just missing them or has there been some sort of announcement? Or has it been a stealthy dismissal by the team?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Lol if Kron is gone - not sure how much better we can do in European scouting over the course of the last few years.