News Article: News & Notes XXXIII: hockey pending

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lol if Kron is gone - not sure how much better we can do in European scouting over the course of the last few years.

Take a look and make sure I’m not missing anything, but I don’t see either guy.

 

[MinJaBen]

When there is no gate revenues, the list of people you can pay gets real short. I bet they were let go when all the furloughs occurred in the spring.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

When there is no gate revenues, the list of people you can pay gets real short. I bet they were let go when all the furloughs occurred in the spring.

Probably. Just odd the the head of European and North American Scouting are “apparently” let go before the draft without a peep.

 

[A Star is Burns]

It was mentioned by insiders when they were trying to figure out what to do with the draft that there were a number of league wide scouts that had contracts that ran out July 1. I'm sure plenty of these guys didn't get extended across the league this time. I'd also wager a lot of the lists were made and relevant data gathered. I suppose you might miss a pounding a fist on the table for a player moment, but meh. If the contracts just weren't extended and ran out, I'm not surprised they wouldn't put something out. Of course, that's just speculation.

 

[MinJaBen]

Probably. Just odd the the head of European and North American Scouting are “apparently” let go before the draft without a peep.

Probably hurts his ego after the Aho signing bonus machismo to now say he can’t/won’t pay loyal employees out of his own pocket.

 

[GoldiFox]

It was mentioned by insiders when they were trying to figure out what to do with the draft that there were a number of league wide scouts that had contracts that ran out July 1. I'm sure plenty of these guys didn't get extended across the league this time. I'd also wager a lot of the lists were made and relevant data gathered. I suppose you might miss a pounding a fist on the table for a player moment, but meh. If the contracts just weren't extended and ran out, I'm not surprised they wouldn't put something out. Of course, that's just speculation.

That's a good point that the lists are made but Euro leagues do start up again today so I hope the Canes have some boots on the ground checking out how guys like Askarov, Amirov, Holtz, Lundell, etc. have progressed.

 

[MinJaBen]

That's a good point that the lists are made but Euro leagues do start up again today so I hope the Canes have some boots on the ground checking out how guys like Askarov, Amirov, Holtz, etc. have progressed.

With no gate revenue coming any time soon, I doubt we have any scouts.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It was mentioned by insiders when they were trying to figure out what to do with the draft that there were a number of league wide scouts that had contracts that ran out July 1. I'm sure plenty of these guys didn't get extended across the league this time. I'd also wager a lot of the lists were made and relevant data gathered. I suppose you might miss a pounding a fist on the table for a player moment, but meh. If the contracts just weren't extended and ran out, I'm not surprised they wouldn't put something out. Of course, that's just speculation.

While in general, the lists are probably already made, I think it’s more than just table pounding. I remember the story on Slavin being drafted where Bert Marshal really pressed on the others to draft him. He pushed others to make that pick if the story is to believed.

I’ve always been of the mindset that svv CB outs are important, particularly to a budget team.

not saying this (if true) is a disaster by any means, but a bit disconcerting.

 

[A Star is Burns]

While in general, the lists are probably already made, I think it’s more than just table pounding. I remember the story on Slavin being drafted where Bert Marshal really pressed on the others to draft him. He pushed others to make that pick if the story is to believed.

I’ve always been of the mindset that svv CB outs are important, particularly to a budget team.

not saying this (if true) is a disaster by any means, but a bit disconcerting.

Well yes, that's what pounding the table for your guy is. I'm not saying that or they have no value, but given the circumstances of the world and economics, it wouldn't surprise me.

As to the leagues starting back up, take guys still on the payroll and have them watch video to supplement the existing lists. It's not perfect, but it doesn't seem too outlandish given the circumstances.

 

[MinJaBen]

Well yes, that's what pounding the table for your guy is. I'm not saying that or they have no value, but given the circumstances of the world and economics, it wouldn't surprise me.

As to the leagues starting back up, take guys still on the payroll and have them watch video to supplement the existing lists. It's not perfect, but it doesn't seem too outlandish given the circumstances.

Are there still any left on the payroll? If you get rid of Kron, who are you keeping?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well yes, that's what pounding the table for your guy is. I'm not saying that or they have no value, but given the circumstances of the world and economics, it wouldn't surprise me.

As to the leagues starting back up, take guys still on the payroll and have them watch video to supplement the existing lists. It's not perfect, but it doesn't seem too outlandish given the circumstances.

Yeah, I get that. Maybe it’s a case of “keep the lower paid scouts, get rid of higher priced ‘management’”.

My concern is that most cost cutting moves to date have been more administrative (AGMs, special consultant, etc.) and non hockey ops (kaiton, Forslund, etc.) . This one (if true) is getting much closer to impacting on ice product (down the road). I understand cuts during this timeframe, but scouting would be high on my list to keep if it was my business.

 

[GoldiFox]

With no gate revenue coming any time soon, I doubt we have any scouts.

I think there is an argument for the opposite side as well. If many organizations are pulling back their scouting then it is a prime opportunity to spend a relatively (to other organizational costs) little money to identify talent to draft.

If there is a dire need to cut costs then cut all scouts and have Dundon buy some subscriptions to Black Book or whatever. If Dundon still wants to own a contender in 5 years then spend a bit of money now to gain an edge. Who knows what the finances look like though, I'm sure the AFL deal hurt and I can't imagine Top Golf has been booming recently.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I would assume that we still have some scouts who are under deals (there are guys still listed on the site). Just like with players, I doubt you want all of them coming up on their new contracts at the same time. Again, I'm not saying it's ideal, but I wouldn't be shocked if that's what happened. I also would not be shocked if similar happened across the league since it was mentioned a lot around June when they were figuring out the draft.

Aside from just being up for contracts, it looks like those Tweets show they were given promotions? Perhaps they were title only before if they were already under a contract and when the time came, they wanted a raise. It makes perfect sense, but it also makes perfect sense that a team wouldn't be eager to do so in these times.

 

[emptyNedder]

If the financial situation is bad enough to eliminate scouting, does that indicate a higher likelihood that TD "returns" control to Karmanos? Has anyone read/heard how long that window is open?

 

[A Star is Burns]

We gonna need a jump to conclusions mat up in here.

 

[MinJaBen]

If the financial situation is bad enough to eliminate scouting, does that indicate a higher likelihood that TD "returns" control to Karmanos? Has anyone read/heard how long that window is open?

Three years is what I remember from the time that the purchase happened. I wouldn't be shocked that if the NHL decides to play a season next year without fans (bubbles, traveling, whatever) over the objections of the smaller market teams, TD exercises his out clause.

 

[WreckingCrew]

It's also possible that their contracts ran up July 1 (or furloughed prior) and they're simply waiting until the draft or next-season to resign them since there's no revenue right now?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Not only is there no revenue, there isn't even a clear plan for amateur-level play to resume.

We're looking at this through a Hurricanes window, but the entire hockey world is having this same conversation right now. What are you paying a scout for? What are you paying ticket sales agents for? What are you paying the arena crew for?

At some point, it stops making sense to throw money at jobs which won't exist for months at a minimum. That's why millions of people are furloughed right now. Pro hockey organizations aren't an exception.

 

[Stickpucker]

why have amateur scouts when you can just trade all your picks for already developed players??

It's not hard to draft in the top 3 and you can just use public scouting or draft people who you like their names in the later rounds. How many players make it without a good "hockey name"

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Yeah, I get that. Maybe it’s a case of “keep the lower paid scouts, get rid of higher priced ‘management’”.

My concern is that most cost cutting moves to date have been more administrative (AGMs, special consultant, etc.) and non hockey ops (kaiton, Forslund, etc.) . This one (if true) is getting much closer to impacting on ice product (down the road). I understand cuts during this timeframe, but scouting would be high on my list to keep if it was my business.

I say this half sarcastically, but I wonder what the difference is between spending >$1million per year on scouting vs. spending $100 on McKeen's, the Black Book, and CSS rankings, and drafting BPA based on those. I'm not suggesting it as a long term solution, but in a year where no revenues are coming in it seems like you could stand pat as a "boring" draft team for a year by just doing that.

(Theory being, you may not have as many late round steals (or maybe you would, who knows), but you also wouldn't galaxy brain yourself into picking Zboril, Debrusk, and Senyshyn instead of Barzal, Connor, and Chabot.)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I say this half sarcastically, but I wonder what the difference is between spending >$1million per year on scouting vs. spending $100 on McKeen's, the Black Book, and CSS rankings, and drafting BPA based on those. I'm not suggesting it as a long term solution, but in a year where no revenues are coming in it seems like you could stand pat as a "boring" draft team for a year by just doing that.

(Theory being, you may not have as many late round steals (or maybe you would, who knows), but you also wouldn't galaxy brain yourself into picking Zboril, Debrusk, and Senyshyn instead of Barzal, Connor, and Chabot.)

Yeah, I would guess that in the first round, it's probably not as complicated as those guys are all covered, but I'm confident we would not have drafted either Aho or Slavin where the Canes did if it wasn't for scouts with boots on the ground.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah, I would guess that in the first round, it's probably not as complicated as those guys are all covered, but I'm confident we would not have drafted either Aho or Slavin where the Canes did if it wasn't for scouts with boots on the ground.

Agreed in general and long-term. But this year's draft, it's going to be hard for scouts to get much unique information out of Europe.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not only is there no revenue, there isn't even a clear plan for amateur-level play to resume.

We're looking at this through a Hurricanes window, but the entire hockey world is having this same conversation right now. What are you paying a scout for? What are you paying ticket sales agents for? What are you paying the arena crew for?

At some point, it stops making sense to throw money at jobs which won't exist for months at a minimum. That's why millions of people are furloughed right now. Pro hockey organizations aren't an exception.

True, but aren't teams in Europe gearing up to play? (or am I wrong on this?). Isn't that why guys like Drury went to Sweden, so they could play? If that is the case, it would seem that Kron might be the last guy you want to get rid of, vs. all the guys in NA.

I do agree though, that the Canes are going to cut expenses and have furloughs just like other companies will.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Agreed in general and long-term. But this year's draft, it's going to be hard for scouts to get much unique information out of Europe.

Maybe. If you are of the opinion that everything that Kron saw and observed is already documented in notes the Hurricanes have, then yes, it's true they aren't going to get much more. I think it's more complicated than that though, particularly when you tout a collaborative approach to decision making.

I'm not overly concerned about this, just thought it was odd that the two guys they promoted a year ago are now "apparently" no longer with the team just before the draft. Maybe it's as simple as their contracts were up (and we know Dundon doesn't believe in contracts), and he didn't want to offer them another one, or a lower cost one, etc...

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe. If you are of the opinion that everything that Kron saw and observed is already documented in notes the Hurricanes have, then yes, it's true they aren't going to get much more. I think it's more complicated than that though, particularly when you tout a collaborative approach to decision making.

I'm not overly concerned about this, just thought it was odd that the two guys they promoted a year ago are now "apparently" no longer with the team just before the draft. Maybe it's as simple as their contracts were up (and we know Dundon doesn't believe in contracts), and he didn't want to offer them another one, or a lower cost one, etc...

I mean this more as "Could Kron actually attend games and travel through Europe?" If not, he's dealing with the same film as other scouts.