New Line combos and roster thread

[VanW27]

No, Marner selfishly wanted to be the shooter far too often.

I thought his biggest weakness is always looking to pass which made the PP far too predictable.
He needs to shoot more, IMO.

Honestly I think its both - which seems ridiculous but hear me out.

Watching Marner on the PP I see a guy who's mentally stuck, everything in him wants to pass but he also knows he needs to shoot more. What ends up happening when he's in this "in between" area mentally is this - the PP moves the puck well, PK is scrambling, puck comes to Marner in a glorious shooting opportunity, but in that split second moment he wants to pass and in just that slight delay the opportunity is gone so he passes back to the point allowing the PK to reset. Then moments later the puck comes back to Marner and knowing he needs to shoot more he fires a hopeless shot into the shinpads of a defender or hits the goalie in the crest.

Marner deserves plenty of criticism but this notion that he's incapable of working a PP because his shot is too soft is ridiculous. Sure it's not a strength but it's good enough in combination with his creativity and quickness to be effective. The problem isn't the physical tools it's all mental.

 

[VanW27]

Its not irrational, but the Leafs had the best PP in the league until Matthews hurt his wrist, then they were forced to make changes.

Afterwards, they never went back to the original style, so, thats on the coaching staff.

all the best PP's in the league load up on one unit, not a balanced 2 line PP format, and when you have Matthews, you get him the puck as often as you can, but, you need to do it the way TB, or Boston does rather than Washington.
Marner needs to learn how to shoot better though, and that alone will make the PP better, he needs to be a mid range threat to score.

The "balanced" PP was certainly part of the problem, they spent so many games watching Thornton/Simmonds fumble away the puck before they made a change. By that point the PP had become a complete liability and lost all confidence. There were times the loaded up PP looked good when it first started to be used regularly but the puck didn't go in and things just snowballed from there.

Frankly the "balanced" PP situation was only used because of the poor construction of the team. When you fill out your depth with players who are liabilities defensively and terrible 5 on 5 players like Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza (sorry to include Spezza with 2 sub-NHL calibre players), Galchenyuk, Boyd, Petan you need to find them minutes somewhere and force feeding them PP time was one of the few ways to do it without costing you goals against.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When you fill out your depth with players who are liabilities defensively and terrible 5 on 5 players like Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza (sorry to include Spezza with 2 sub-NHL calibre players), Galchenyuk, Boyd, Petan you need to find them minutes somewhere and force feeding them PP time was one of the few ways to do it without costing you goals against.

LOL.

 

[Beaumaris]

Honestly I think its both - which seems ridiculous but hear me out.

Watching Marner on the PP I see a guy who's mentally stuck, everything in him wants to pass but he also knows he needs to shoot more. What ends up happening when he's in this "in between" area mentally is this - the PP moves the puck well, PK is scrambling, puck comes to Marner in a glorious shooting opportunity, but in that split second moment he wants to pass and in just that slight delay the opportunity is gone so he passes back to the point allowing the PK to reset. Then moments later the puck comes back to Marner and knowing he needs to shoot more he fires a hopeless shot into the shinpads of a defender or hits the goalie in the crest.

Marner deserves plenty of criticism but this notion that he's incapable of working a PP because his shot is too soft is ridiculous. Sure it's not a strength but it's good enough in combination with his creativity and quickness to be effective. The problem isn't the physical tools it's all mental.

That’s just about the way I see it also.

 

[Sypher04]

I'd like to see Marner, at least on the powerplay, just lean fully into his playmaking abilities. If the pass is there, make it, every time. We have shooters who can be sprinkled around him in both Tavares and Matthews, as well as Nylander who is a bit of a hybrid, but has a wicked shot. Maybe to open up the most opportunities for him to find those lanes, he may need to play in a different spot, but that'd be worthwhile and he'd still have the puck moving through him largely. Where he and Matthews were last season, that lane was permanently shut from about a month into the season. Also allows us to move a bigger shot closer to the point to compliment Rielly. But ultimately we need more movement. We started the season dancing on the powerplay, but completely lost it. You can't just stand around move the puck, it'll never work. You gotta move the box, and tire out the penalty killers and we did a piss poor job of that for literally months

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Should be a interesting camp

 

[ACC1224]

Honestly I think its both - which seems ridiculous but hear me out.

Watching Marner on the PP I see a guy who's mentally stuck, everything in him wants to pass but he also knows he needs to shoot more. What ends up happening when he's in this "in between" area mentally is this - the PP moves the puck well, PK is scrambling, puck comes to Marner in a glorious shooting opportunity, but in that split second moment he wants to pass and in just that slight delay the opportunity is gone so he passes back to the point allowing the PK to reset. Then moments later the puck comes back to Marner and knowing he needs to shoot more he fires a hopeless shot into the shinpads of a defender or hits the goalie in the crest.

Marner deserves plenty of criticism but this notion that he's incapable of working a PP because his shot is too soft is ridiculous. Sure it's not a strength but it's good enough in combination with his creativity and quickness to be effective. The problem isn't the physical tools it's all mental.

I believe a lot of his indecision comes from fatigue. As the season went on and into the playoffs there were too many instances where he was too slow processing the play which everyone knows is his strength. I would be very surprised if his PK time is limited this year as a way to bring his ice time down.

 

[VanW27]

I believe a lot of his indecision comes from fatigue. As the season went on and into the playoffs there were too many instances where he was too slow processing the play which everyone knows is his strength. I would be very surprised if his PK time is limited this year as a way to bring his ice time down.

Very possible, hopefully Dubas/Keefe learned from the issues created by loading up the depth with "scorers" who were fringe NHLers last season, and commits to a bottom of the lineup that can PK and play some tough minutes.

 

[Gabriel426]

I believe a lot of his indecision comes from fatigue. As the season went on and into the playoffs there were too many instances where he was too slow processing the play which everyone knows is his strength. I would be very surprised if his PK time is limited this year as a way to bring his ice time down.

The PP wasn't working for the past 30 plus games. Don't think fatigue is an issue, and if it is, thats another problem since he is not a rookie and has been playing in the league for 4 years.
I think Marner just over think everything, or simply just wants to make a highlight reel play to silence his critics. Thats something I have been saying all along. He needs to keep the game simple, when he is one on one with the goalie, shoot at net instead of trying to deke around the goalie or do a drop pass, make quick pass instead of doing 360 spin and then making the pass. Marner tends to over complicated his own game the moment he struggles, and the more he over complicated things the more he struggles.
Quick frankly, if he didn't have a shooter like JT and AM playing with him, we would see more of these fancy moves which lead to no where.

He needs to make simple direct plays and the playoff results will come(thats the hope).

 

[ACC1224]

Very possible, hopefully Dubas/Keefe learned from the issues created by loading up the depth with "scorers" who were fringe NHLers last season, and commits to a bottom of the lineup that can PK and play some tough minutes.

Amen to that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Pp lines should be

Bunting-Matthews-nylander
Rielly-marner
Kerfoot-tavares-kase
Sandin-brodie

Pk
Ritchie-kampfe-simmonds
Muzzin-holl
Kerfoot/Engvall-brooks-spezza
Dermott-brodie

Spezza definitely needs to be on one of those PP.

 

[ACC1224]

The PP wasn't working for the past 30 plus games. Don't think fatigue is an issue, and if it is, thats another problem since he is not a rookie and has been playing in the league for 4 years.
I think Marner just over think everything, or simply just wants to make a highlight reel play to silence his critics. Thats something I have been saying all along. He needs to keep the game simple, when he is one on one with the goalie, shoot at net instead of trying to deke around the goalie or do a drop pass, make quick pass instead of doing 360 spin and then making the pass. Marner tends to over complicated his own game the moment he struggles, and the more he over complicated things the more he struggles.
Quick frankly, if he didn't have a shooter like JT and AM playing with him, we would see more of these fancy moves which lead to no where.

He needs to make simple direct plays and the playoff results will come(thats the hope).

It's rarely ever one thing.
A lot of what you say is true, especially the overcomplicating things.
Fatigue is also an issue, IMO.
PK minutes are the toughest minutes and it showed in his play.
Down a goal, throw him out to PK but he played far too many PK minutes IMO.

 

[Gabriel426]

I would actually go with the following PP lines

Richtie-JT-AM
Reilly-Willie

Bunting/Kase-Kerfoot-Spezza
Dermott-Marner

 

[Gabriel426]

It's rarely ever one thing.
A lot of what you say is true, especially the overcomplicating things.
Fatigue is also an issue, IMO.
PK minutes are the toughest minutes and it showed in his play.
Down a goal, throw him out to PK but he played far too many PK minutes IMO.

I agree, and I still don't understand why is Marner on the PK.
I think it is safe to say that the goalie is the best and most important PKer on the team and the second person is the player who wins faceoffs, the third is a Dman who clears the front of the net. I just dont see why Marner is a must to play PK. I just can't see why guys like Bunting, Kase, Richtie, and others can't PK.
Like the argument is always, you don't want this player taking blocking shots bc of his offence, but lets Marner PK and block shots....Just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Sypher04]

I would actually go with the following PP lines

Richtie-JT-AM
Reilly-Willie

Bunting/Kase-Kerfoot-Spezza
Dermott-Marner

Genuinely perplexed why you'd want to take your best playmaker off the unit with your 3 best goal scorers...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Genuinely perplexed why you'd want to take your best playmaker off the unit with your 3 best goal scorers...

Because after being one of the league's best PP players for 4 and a half years, the PP went through a rough half a shortened year, so like everything else, why not just blame it all on Marner.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

I'd like to see Marner, at least on the powerplay, just lean fully into his playmaking abilities. If the pass is there, make it, every time. We have shooters who can be sprinkled around him in both Tavares and Matthews, as well as Nylander who is a bit of a hybrid, but has a wicked shot. Maybe to open up the most opportunities for him to find those lanes, he may need to play in a different spot, but that'd be worthwhile and he'd still have the puck moving through him largely. Where he and Matthews were last season, that lane was permanently shut from about a month into the season. Also allows us to move a bigger shot closer to the point to compliment Rielly. But ultimately we need more movement. We started the season dancing on the powerplay, but completely lost it. You can't just stand around move the puck, it'll never work. You gotta move the box, and tire out the penalty killers and we did a piss poor job of that for literally months

I just think our PP is way too static. Marner a lot of times when he gets the puck on the PP stands still and his puck skills aren't good enough to get his passes through defenders (Nylander makes a much better saucer pass). Imo Marner's playmaking isn't so good from fundamentals, it's from having great vision, creativity, and hockey IQ. He's better at turning a 2on2 into a tap-in goal by doing something that the defender's don't expect rather than threading through a soft pass on a 2-1. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself properly lol but imo Marner on the PP needs to play hockey and attack the net rather than try to execute static set plays.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Because after being one of the league's best PP players for 4 and a half years, the PP went through a rough half a shortened year, so like everything else, why not just blame it all on Marner.

The powerplay hasn't been bad just this year. Since marner and matthews have been on the same unit, the powerplay starts hot, and goes ice cold as teams tighten up defensively and better figure out their pk systems. As the year goes on, teams give marner more and more space, double cover matthews, cover the bumper, and cover netfront. They allow Marner and the defender plenty of room to pass around as they basically don't move. The same thing is going to happen this year as well if marner is still on the half wall.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Since marner and matthews have been on the same unit, the powerplay starts hot, and goes ice cold as teams tighten up defensively and better figure out their pk systems.

That's not even true. If we split each season into half-season segments, it has alternated hot->cold, cold->hot, hot->cold over the past 3 years.

 

[Gabriel426]

Genuinely perplexed why you'd want to take your best playmaker off the unit with your 3 best goal scorers...

Why not? It wasn’t working and needs a change.
If it doesn’t work, make changes again till it works.
Pretty sure Edison didn’t stick with one way of doing things and hope the results will be different.
Keep making adjustments and changes till it starts working and keep doing it again when opposing teams figure a way to stop.
It’s funny how on one hand Marner’s supporters kept playing down Willie’s stats bc Willie was shelter and didn’t faced top competition and stated that Marner would have done well against weaker competition but when you agree with them about that and out Marner in a line away from AM or JT or on PP2, all Marner fans will come in pitch fork with stats stating Marner deserves too competition, he is one of the best……how dare you put Marner against weaker competition……

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - - - Kampf - - - Kase
Simmonds - Spezza - Gabriel
Mikheyev - Engvall - Anderson
Roberts0n - Brooks

Rielly - - - Brodie
Muzzin - - - Holl
Sandin - Liljigren
Dermott - Gudbranson

Campbell
Mrazek

- - -

Ritchie
Marner - Nylander - Matthews
Sandin

Bunting
Kase - Spezza - Tavares
Rielly

- - -

Kampf - Marner
Muzzin - Holl

Kerfoot - Bunting
Brodie - Liljigren/Dermott/Gudbranson

 

[Martin Skoula]

The PP wasn't working for the past 30 plus games. Don't think fatigue is an issue, and if it is, thats another problem since he is not a rookie and has been playing in the league for 4 years.
I think Marner just over think everything, or simply just wants to make a highlight reel play to silence his critics. Thats something I have been saying all along. He needs to keep the game simple, when he is one on one with the goalie, shoot at net instead of trying to deke around the goalie or do a drop pass, make quick pass instead of doing 360 spin and then making the pass. Marner tends to over complicated his own game the moment he struggles, and the more he over complicated things the more he struggles.
Quick frankly, if he didn't have a shooter like JT and AM playing with him, we would see more of these fancy moves which lead to no where.

He needs to make simple direct plays and the playoff results will come(thats the hope).

He loves to create chaos and try to thread the needle through it, someone like Nylander is a much more consistent passer to simple but still dangerous areas. The problem is our PP strongest at beating you clean from smart set plays. Matthews and Tavares don't need chaotic scrambles to score, you just need to feed them in their offices.

Funnily enough Marner would probably be a 110+ point player on a worse team that has to score off broken scrambles because they don't have elite shooters. Swapping him with someone like Gaudreau or Kessel (not a trade suggestion just a style comp) would probably result in more offense for both teams.

 

[meefer]

As always, injuries will play a part, but I suspect the Leafs will want to explore the best way to have 3 lines that can threaten to score, while still maintaining some defensive awareness. Depending on game situations, I can see Kampf moving up to 3C, Nylander going to 1RW and Mikheyev/Simmonds falling back to 4LW bumping Engvall to 4C.

Bunting Matthews Mikheyev/Simmonds
Ritchie Tavares Marner
Kerfoot Nylander Kase/Anderson
Engvall/Mikheyev Kampf Spezza/Simmonds
Robertson Brooks Gabriel

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Dermott Holl
Sandin Biega

PP1
Ritchie (net front)
Nylander Matthews
Rielly Marner

PP2
Simmonds/Bunting (net front)
Kase Tavares
Dermott Spezza

PK1
Kampf Kerfoot
Muzzin Holl

PK2
Engvall Mikheyev
Dermott Brodie

PK3
Nylander Marner
Rielly Liljegren

*My primary concern for the team's lineup is to reduce the TOI of Marner and Matthews. Finishing 1st and 5th overall for forwards in the league is not optimal, and with Hyman gone (32nd OA) I think Keefe has to even out the responsibilities on the team.

 

[Puckstuff]

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Ritchie-Kerfoot-Kase
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev (shutdown line)
Spezza rotates in.

 

[Puckstuff]

I'm curious to see where Simmonds and Spezza end up in this roster. Imo we can build an optimal lineup without them.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Anderson-Tavares-Nylander
Ritchie-Kerfoot-Kase
Mikheyev-Engvall-Kampf (shutdown line)
Semyenov/Brooks/Maglin/Robertson

You have 16 forwards with most of them in what should be the most productive years of their careers. All of the LW's are pretty much interchangeable.

I love Spezza but I hope we don't lose any of the players above because of waivers.

Personally I don't really care about Simmonds being any more then a 13th or 14th forward and I think Spezza (although was great lat year for 700 k) still doesn't give me a ton of confidence defensively although not as bad as Simmonds.