NFL: New Anthem Rules, Fines & Other Policies...

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

By rejecting the flag? Makes no sense and is offensive to a majority of people. The bigger picture is Kaepenick alienated everyone he needed to get on his side

Honestly, why is it offensive?

Can you not admit that America has it's faults and that there are things that need to change? Why does it offend you? I really don't get it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I think the NFL has botched this one completely.

Forcing players to conform, or just stay in the locker room, doesn't address the real racism problem this country has. It is a very, very real problem.

neither does kneeling

 

[Fugu]

neither does kneeling

Then why is this an international subject of interest?

 

[Juve]

It's about time. Something like this should have been implemented at the very beginning. What people don't understand is at the end of the day the NFL is a business, the owners are employers and players are employees. You can't have employees running the show. These players are paid to play football and to represent the team; if you want to protest do it on your own time and not when you are on the clock. You do not bite the hand that feeds. I'd like to see if I am able to keep my job if I start any form of protest at work.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Then why is this an international subject of interest?

exactly. i think that's the thing some folks don't get. no doubt, they don't wanna participate in the actual conversation, but they dont even seem to get (or want to get) that this is about forcing that conversation to be had, and symbolically in a very unnerving way.

in many ways though, those advocating the movement haven't been all that articulate in guiding the wider conversation about social/racial inequality towards a solution, so i also understand why so many folks don't see the point.

 

[Blitzkrug]

It's about time. Something like this should have been implemented at the very beginning. What people don't understand is at the end of the day the NFL is a business, the owners are employers and players are employees. You can't have employees running the show. These players are paid to play football and to represent the team; if you want to protest do it on your own time and not when you are on the clock. You do not bite the hand that feeds. I'd like to see if I am able to keep my job if I start any form of protest at work.

That's a good one. The players don't work for the NFL, the players work for their particular' team's owner. As far as i'm concerned if the owner says it's okay, it's okay (Much like in the case of the Jets) and the NFL can go **** itself. How about fix the rapidly declining quality of your game and actual deviants in the leagues (particularly the domestic abusers/actual criminals) instead of petty nonsense like this?

And there's the whole trying to compare pro sports to a 9 to 5 job which is just stupid.

 

[Juve]

That's a good one. The players don't work for the NFL, the players work for their particular' team's owner. As far as i'm concerned if the owner says it's okay, it's okay (Much like in the case of the Jets) and the NFL can go **** itself. How about fix the rapidly declining quality of your game and actual deviants in the leagues (particularly the domestic abusers/actual criminals) instead of petty nonsense like this?

And there's the whole trying to compare pro sports to a 9 to 5 job which is just stupid.

LoL. My whole point exactly.

It does not need to be 9-5 job in order to be considered a job. It is a job just not a traditional job. NFL owner pays "X" player to perform for their respective team. If you want to protest go protest, but do it on your own time.

 

[Epsilon]

This is making the presumption that refusing to stand up for some stupid song is a "protest", as opposed to just, you know, not standing up when some music that has nothing to do with the game starts playing during the pregame/warmup.

 

[tucker3434]

I think the NFL has botched this one completely.

Forcing players to conform, or just stay in the locker room, doesn't address the real racism problem this country has. It is a very, very real problem.

I think it’s a bit botched too, but it isn’t the NFL’s responsibility to fix racism.

 

[GordonGecko]

"Poll: 53 percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem"
Poll: 53 percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem

Pretty sad that the number is only 53%.

 

[Fugu]

I think it’s a bit botched too, but it isn’t the NFL’s responsibility to fix racism.

I agree mainly because they had left it alone until our President piped up about the kneeling. If he'd really wanted to help, he could have addressed the outright racism that exists and how to help all sides get beyond it.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Ehh, sure, I'm feeling frisky, so I'll take a crack.

More white people are shot by Police than Blacks, but it’s not a national news story every time it happens.

That's because there are more white people than black people. As a percentage of the population, however, black people are disproportionately shot.

And beyond merely being shot, black people are disproportionately arrested. And disproportionately beaten. And received disproportionately harsher sentences. So it gets attention because it's the deadliest part of a system that is racially discriminatory. If I was a black person with the same economic background, living in the same neighborhood, working the same job, my odds of being arrested or shot would increase dramatically.

There is also the problem of the manner in which black people are approached, arrested, shot that causes them to make national headlines. There are plenty of white kids who have played with toy guns growing up. I've never heard of cops rolling up on a white kid playing in a park and almost immediately shooting him dead. I know there are plenty of white NRA members who carry guns. Never heard of a single one who was just straight shot dead right in his car while not even holding a weapon.

I don't approve of police misconduct against anyone, white or black. If there are white people who were killed under similar circumstances, I think those shootings should be national news, too. But I just can't fathom American cops shooting unarmed white people in the same fashion, and then facing little/no repercussions.

All People are more likely to get stuck by Lightning than shot by Police unarmed. It’s a fact, does that make lightning racist?

You're also many times much more likely to be killed by lightning AND by police officers than your by Islamic terrorists or immigrants or MS-13 gang members.

But more critically, lightning is a random uncontrollable event that no human is responsible for. Police who shoot citizens unnecessarily is a completely controllable thing that people ARE responsible for. If the people charged with protecting our communities are actually causing greater harm, that is a problem that should be addressed.

The fact that wildfires cause several billion dollars of damage every year doesn't mean we should just accept crooked cops stealing $25 million from local communities and neighbors.

When Kaepernick started sitting/kneeling he said he would never stand for a country that oppresses it’s people, then proceeded to praise Fidel Castro and Communist Cuba.

Yeah, sometimes people in their haste to make a political point make some head-scratchingly dumb comments. Kaepernick had his comments about Castro.....you have basically everything you've said in this thread.

This isn’t about “racism” it’s about forcing left wing ideology upon people.

Yes. The "left wing ideology" that we should work harder to not be racist, and to combat discriminatory behaviors in policing.

When using your workplace as a platform for political use has negative reactions on your employer they should fire them.

The NFL has already taken a political stance by taking so much money from the US military to specifically promote recruitment. Mandatory promotions paid for by the American taxpayer IS a political stance being taken (and enforced) during games.

I don't think the NFL should punish players who refuse to get in line with the league's govt subsidized nationalistic displays, but I think they are legally allowed to. Of course, by making it a policy of punishing players who protest against racial discrimination while encouraging military worship, you risk alienating and incurring negative reactions among the non-bigot portions of your fanbase.

Ask yourself this would a conservative white player have been suspended if he started turning his back during the anthem in protest of Obamacare and higher taxes?

Unlikely.

Would the league allow Nazi salutes from a Neo-Nazi players?

No, they probably wouldn't allow that. But the fact that you compare someone protesting for racial equality with someone showing their support a fascist cult which believes in the subordination and ultimate genocide of other races/ethnicities is......informative.

Why allow Communists a platform?

No communists have been given a platform.

Glad I could help.

 

[Blitzkrug]

LoL. My whole point exactly.

It does not need to be 9-5 job in order to be considered a job. It is a job just not a traditional job. NFL owner pays "X" player to perform for their respective team. If you want to protest go protest, but do it on your own time.

Circular reasoning at its finest. Telling people what to do when their boss says its fine.

Patriotism isn't dead. People just doesn't understand what actual patriotism is.

 

[Babe Ruth]

Honestly, why is it offensive?

..America has it's faults and that there are things that need to change? Why does it offend you? I really don't get it.

I can't answer for GordonGecko, but I think the anthem protests are most than just offensive to instinctive patriotic impulses..
I think the protests (additionally) offend a lot of folks sense of fairness. You have players collecting multi-million dollar paychecks who are expected to stand upright for 90 seconds before kickoff. People all over the globe are asked to do much more humiliating & difficult tasks by their employers, for a fraction of NFL pay.. I think the players come off as ingrates (fair or not). And the optics make their cause unsympathetic and obnoxious (ie- adored multi-millionaires complaining about oppression?) Just my feeling about some of the backlash..

 

[SupremeNachos]

I hope players keep taking the knee.

There are a limited number of knees left though. I sure ain't giving up mine!

 

[charliolemieux]

The Flag is a symbol of the country, it’s people, history, and traditions. Any disrespectful action towards the flag is a disrespectful act towards that.

The Constitution only protects people from harm from the Government, a private employer can fire anyone at anytime for offensive or disrespectful behavior.

The flag is a symbol of freedom, as in freedom of expression and the right to protest. But that is besides the point.

Some Flag Etiquette:

• Don’t carry the flag flat, or carry things in it.
• Don’t use the flag as clothing.

The Flag is carried flat across the field at every game, and the people who seem to scream the loudest about disrespecting the flag are often wearing it as clothing.

Bottom line is people are dumbasses who just want to bitch about something without even bother to research what the hell is going on.

As for the NFL, they can do whatever they want. It's their league. If players don't want to stand on the field for the anthem they can stay in the locker room, or come out and kneel and pay the fines.
I think the whole anthem thing is stupid and a waste of time.
It's the Military who sponsors all the pomp and pageantry anyway.

 

[Tawnos]

I’m not clear on how this could be a free speech issue. Their 1st Amendment rights aren’t being violated here from what I can see. They can still kneel during the anthem without fear of legal ramifications, which is what the 1A covers. Their employer has simply instituted a new company policy which, as employees, they are required to abide by or risk punishment.

For example, if I swear in front of customers at my job my employer can punish me. That’s not a violation of my Charter right to free expression as I will not be charged legally, only punished by my employer as my conduct doesn’t fall in line with company policy. If I don’t like it I can find a new job.

If someone disagrees with this could you please explain to me why? I’m not looking to argue with anyone, I’m just genuinely curious how it would be seen as a free speech issue.

(I’m going to put a disclaimer up top that I don’t really have a stance on this particular aspect of the issue. Other aspects, sure. But the 1A issue, I’m basically neutral)

I mentioned this on the last page, but the status of a sporting event in terms of being public or private is an open legal question for the moment.

I think there are three ways in which an NFL game potentially constitutes a public forum.

1.) The games are carried on networks that are free to the public, making them accessible to all... not just those who subscribe to a private service. While the major networks are privately owned, they are required by law to make themselves publicly accessible. Where the public has the right to access the content, that content could then be seen as being in a public forum.
2.) This doesn’t apply in every situation, but many stadiums are funded with public money. While those stadiums are sometimes essentially handed over to private ownership, public investment makes the waters a little muddier around that question. The stadiums are basically public infrastructure.
3.) As mentioned above, the military is a stakeholder in the league and the military is a public entity. That makes the league a little more private-public than your average business.

It’s important to remember that First Amendement protections in the workplace are not a binary proposition. It isn’t either full protection or no protection. Under the law, there is a certain amount of protection even for purely private employees. Government employees have essentially full 1A protection. So if there’s a spectrum, the question that has to be answered is where professional athletes fall on it.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

They're employees of businesses and it's already been demonstrated that their articulation of personal opinions can damage those businesses. It's not really much of a grey area at all.

 

[Gnashville]

Ehh, sure, I'm feeling frisky, so I'll take a crack.



That's because there are more white people than black people. As a percentage of the population, however, black people are disproportionately shot.

And beyond merely being shot, black people are disproportionately arrested. And disproportionately beaten. And received disproportionately harsher sentences. So it gets attention because it's the deadliest part of a system that is racially discriminatory. If I was a black person with the same economic background, living in the same neighborhood, working the same job, my odds of being arrested or shot would increase dramatically.

There is also the problem of the manner in which black people are approached, arrested, shot that causes them to make national headlines. There are plenty of white kids who have played with toy guns growing up. I've never heard of cops rolling up on a white kid playing in a park and almost immediately shooting him dead. I know there are plenty of white NRA members who carry guns. Never heard of a single one who was just straight shot dead right in his car while not even holding a weapon.

I don't approve of police misconduct against anyone, white or black. If there are white people who were killed under similar circumstances, I think those shootings should be national news, too. But I just can't fathom American cops shooting unarmed white people in the same fashion, and then facing little/no repercussions.



You're also many times much more likely to be killed by lightning AND by police officers than your by Islamic terrorists or immigrants or MS-13 gang members.

But more critically, lightning is a random uncontrollable event that no human is responsible for. Police who shoot citizens unnecessarily is a completely controllable thing that people ARE responsible for. If the people charged with protecting our communities are actually causing greater harm, that is a problem that should be addressed.

The fact that wildfires cause several billion dollars of damage every year doesn't mean we should just accept crooked cops stealing $25 million from local communities and neighbors.



Yeah, sometimes people in their haste to make a political point make some head-scratchingly dumb comments. Kaepernick had his comments about Castro.....you have basically everything you've said in this thread.



Yes. The "left wing ideology" that we should work harder to not be racist, and to combat discriminatory behaviors in policing.



The NFL has already taken a political stance by taking so much money from the US military to specifically promote recruitment. Mandatory promotions paid for by the American taxpayer IS a political stance being taken (and enforced) during games.

I don't think the NFL should punish players who refuse to get in line with the league's govt subsidized nationalistic displays, but I think they are legally allowed to. Of course, by making it a policy of punishing players who protest against racial discrimination while encouraging military worship, you risk alienating and incurring negative reactions among the non-bigot portions of your fanbase.



Unlikely.



No, they probably wouldn't allow that. But the fact that you compare someone protesting for racial equality with someone showing their support a fascist cult which believes in the subordination and ultimate genocide of other races/ethnicities is......informative.



No communists have been given a platform.

Glad I could help.

Kaepernick gave glowing love of Castro and he said this country should strive to be more like his Cuba. There is no denying that. Castro is a murdering thug. There is no denying that.

And the protests are offensive to some when he basically called all Police officers murderers. Is that in itself racist stereotyping? How about saying “anyone that disagrees with me is a racist” is that not in itself racism? Extending beliefs upon a group of people because of the actions of a minority. Is it possible that the actions these players can be seen as offensive to some fans?

 

[AmericanDream]

Kaepernick gave glowing love of Castro and he said this country should strive to be more like his Cuba. There is no denying that. Castro is a murdering thug. There is no denying that.

And the protests are offensive to some when he basically called all Police officers murderers. Is that in itself racist stereotyping? How about saying “anyone that disagrees with me is a racist” is that not in itself racism? Extending beliefs upon a group of people because of the actions of a minority. Is it possible that the actions these players can be seen as offensive to some fans?

I also enjoyed Kaepernick and his cops are pig socks..but yeah lets forget what this scumbag is all about..

 

[AmericanDream]

Ehh, sure, I'm feeling frisky, so I'll take a crack.



That's because there are more white people than black people. As a percentage of the population, however, black people are disproportionately shot.

And beyond merely being shot, black people are disproportionately arrested. And disproportionately beaten. And received disproportionately harsher sentences. So it gets attention because it's the deadliest part of a system that is racially discriminatory. If I was a black person with the same economic background, living in the same neighborhood, working the same job, my odds of being arrested or shot would increase dramatically.

There is also the problem of the manner in which black people are approached, arrested, shot that causes them to make national headlines. There are plenty of white kids who have played with toy guns growing up. I've never heard of cops rolling up on a white kid playing in a park and almost immediately shooting him dead. I know there are plenty of white NRA members who carry guns. Never heard of a single one who was just straight shot dead right in his car while not even holding a weapon.

I don't approve of police misconduct against anyone, white or black. If there are white people who were killed under similar circumstances, I think those shootings should be national news, too. But I just can't fathom American cops shooting unarmed white people in the same fashion, and then facing little/no repercussions.



You're also many times much more likely to be killed by lightning AND by police officers than your by Islamic terrorists or immigrants or MS-13 gang members.

But more critically, lightning is a random uncontrollable event that no human is responsible for. Police who shoot citizens unnecessarily is a completely controllable thing that people ARE responsible for. If the people charged with protecting our communities are actually causing greater harm, that is a problem that should be addressed.

The fact that wildfires cause several billion dollars of damage every year doesn't mean we should just accept crooked cops stealing $25 million from local communities and neighbors.



Yeah, sometimes people in their haste to make a political point make some head-scratchingly dumb comments. Kaepernick had his comments about Castro.....you have basically everything you've said in this thread.



Yes. The "left wing ideology" that we should work harder to not be racist, and to combat discriminatory behaviors in policing.



The NFL has already taken a political stance by taking so much money from the US military to specifically promote recruitment. Mandatory promotions paid for by the American taxpayer IS a political stance being taken (and enforced) during games.

I don't think the NFL should punish players who refuse to get in line with the league's govt subsidized nationalistic displays, but I think they are legally allowed to. Of course, by making it a policy of punishing players who protest against racial discrimination while encouraging military worship, you risk alienating and incurring negative reactions among the non-bigot portions of your fanbase.



Unlikely.



No, they probably wouldn't allow that. But the fact that you compare someone protesting for racial equality with someone showing their support a fascist cult which believes in the subordination and ultimate genocide of other races/ethnicities is......informative.



No communists have been given a platform.

Glad I could help.

Bolded - HAHAHAHAHA, straight from google itself - and so horrible that you think that this isnt a big deal because of population size?????...It doesn't matter what size a population is, point is it isn't just black people getting shot, but do you hear anything about it when whitey gets smoked by the police??? Not really...And the Black Lives Matters people sure aren't marching for any of the white people shot, but I sure see a hell of a lot of white people marching in reverse...do you not see what the media has done here? keep being manipulated, keep believing there is some race war going on like it is the 1950's again...there are agendas here and groups funded by George Soros making boat loads of money hand over fist on this because people are just stupid and believe what they are force fed. Not saying life is perfect and there aren't problems, but most of this is smoke and mirrors for the real tragedies going on in this country which aren't being discussed and pushed aside..

all I have to say is Hurricane Harvey hit, and for a week all of this crap went away, and for how horribly racist the media made us all out to be, all you saw was neighbor helping neighbor, stranger helping stranger, black person helping white person and white person helping black person...it is all BULLSHIT...people are not racist, not the majority of this country, not anywhere near it. Any time shit hits the fan you will see how the vast majority of people treat each other and proves time and time again that people need to stop believing in this false narrative of an epidemic of racism.

There are individuals who are racist on ALL sides of color, stop painting a broad picture and putting blame on those that should have no blame. Go for the individual and not the skin color.

Now back to football lol!!

 

[Newsworthy]

People seem to forget the first public statement that Goodel made last season.
He said that he wouldn't force the players to stand during the anthem.
Now all of a sudden he does a total 180

 

[mouser]

I think the NFL has botched this one completely.

Forcing players to conform, or just stay in the locker room, doesn't address the real racism problem this country has. It is a very, very real problem.

What would you have recommended the NFL do?

Looking at it through the business goggles, the NFL has a PR issue where the actions of employees on the job are upsetting some significant portion of their customers.

 

[What the Faulk]

This topic is like a homing beacon for the MAGA boys to come out of the woodwork

 

[Blitzkrug]

Big talk from a draft dodger.