NFL: New Anthem Rules, Fines & Other Policies...

[Fugu]

I think the NFL has botched this one completely.

Forcing players to conform, or just stay in the locker room, doesn't address the real racism problem this country has. It is a very, very real problem.

 

[Alex Jones]

Because sporting events are generally very large gatherings, that's all. It's the modern town hall.

What's beyond me is how so many people are hell bent on dismantling every tradition and institution in the US.

If playing the anthem before sporting events won't save lives, what will?

 

[mouser]

jets chairman already came out and said he'll pay the fines of any players who kneel during the anthem. pretty sure other owners will follow suit

fwiw, I doubt the NFL would allow that to happen. Paying a player's fine is equivalent to paying the player under the table / outside of the contract, which is a no no.

wonder if the league plans to hire undercover "fans" to make sure everyone in the stands "respects" the anthem too

Terrible analogy. The fans aren't NFL employees.

 

[Alex Jones]

I know it's been said already, but why there are even anthems played before a sporting event that isn't international competition is beyond me, it makes no sense.

The fact that this is an issue is honestly pathetic, who cares if someone is sitting. I do find it funny that most of the people that are offended by this tend to be conservative people who like to say things like 'liberal tears' or 'poor little snowflakes'. Now they are the ones offended over something that literally has no effect on them.

That may be too political so mods can feel free to delete my post if it is.

Offended because Mexicans are called criminals and rapists: Liberal tears

Offended because someone kneeled during a song: HOLY SHIT GUYS, THEY'RE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY

 

[What the Faulk]

fwiw, I doubt the NFL would allow that to happen. Paying a player's fine is equivalent to paying the player under the table / outside of the contract, which is a no no.

This is correct, but won't the fines be levied on the teams? It's up to the teams to in turn fine the players, which I'm sure some will. Or use behind-the-scenes pressure.

 

[mouser]

This is correct, but won't the fines be levied on the teams? It's up to the teams to in turn fine the players, which I'm sure some will. Or use behind-the-scenes pressure.

I think that's the case, however I'm not sure they've 100% explained how its going to work.

 

[YEM]

I do believe the NFL will be fining only the teams and not the individual players, which allows them to avoid any issues with the NFLPA over these fines

 

[Terry Yake]

fwiw, I doubt the NFL would allow that to happen. Paying a player's fine is equivalent to paying the player under the table / outside of the contract, which is a no no.



Terrible analogy. The fans aren't NFL employees.

teams will be fined. not the players

so yes, the owners can go ahead and tell their players to kneel and take the fine

 

[patnyrnyg]

The NFL can demand its players do what they want. They are an employer. Your free speech isn't protected at your job.

No, they can't. They have a CBA which dictates player conduct.

 

[GordonGecko]

The players would say that they are using this moment to protest injustice, which is also a bedrock American tradition.

By rejecting the flag? Makes no sense and is offensive to a majority of people. The bigger picture is Kaepenick alienated everyone he needed to get on his side

 

[Melrose Munch]

Is it? I think it isn't at all.

Here's an exemple:

As a Québécois, years ago, when I was younger, many, many Québécois Nationalist fans sat down, or tried to do anything disrespectful they could during the Canadian anthem at sports event. Because they HATE Canada. (Even today, Some Québécois would still rather die then sing the Canadian anthem, I bet)

Now imagine that in 1994, Québécois Hockey players started doing the same thing (kneeling, leaving the ice, whatever...) during the Canadian anthem at games to show their hatred for Canada.... well I am certain the NHL would have stepped in to stop it.

Because, like I said, they want to step away from controversy. And want to be non-political.

It's not a question of identity. It's a question of the league wanting to be non-political.

Altrough, of course, full disclosure, as a Québécois I might be completely misjuging American society. And it's very possible that the peculiar American obscession with the strange outdated concept of "race" (something that isn't even real, we're all members of the Human race, more or less melanin in your skin means nothing).... is so strong that it overpowers regular concerns about business/patriotism/being non-political in the NFL.

But I doubt so.

I think it's the human reaction to recognize that you're employees feel unsafe.

More white people are shot by Police than Blacks, but it’s not a national news story every time it happens.
All People are more likely to get stuck by Lightning than shot by Police unarmed. It’s a fact, does that make lightning racist?
When Kaepernick started sitting/kneeling he said he would never stand for a country that oppresses it’s people, then proceeded to praise Fidel Castro and Communist Cuba. This isn’t about “racism” it’s about forcing left wing ideology upon people. That’s why people got angry because we saw right through the BS. When using your workplace as a platform for political use has negative reactions on your employer they should fire them. Honestly I am hoping they give any player the maximum fine (1 game check) and suspension (4 games without pay) at the 1st occurrence.

Ask yourself this would a conservative white player have been suspended if he started turning his back during the anthem in protest of Obamacare and higher taxes? Would the league allow Nazi salutes from a Neo-Nazi players? Why allow Communists a platform?

This was never about communism. Human rights is good business. You are either racist or you're not Gnashville. No inbetween, no misnomers about communism.

So much misrepresenting going on here. lol

The only real solution for the NFL in this situation is to scrap the anthem altogether. People crying about it being disrespectful to troops disrespect the ideals that flag stands for in doing so and can take a long walk off a short pier.

Absolutly right.

 

[patnyrnyg]

So much misrepresenting going on here. lol

The only real solution for the NFL in this situation is to scrap the anthem altogether. People crying about it being disrespectful to troops disrespect the ideals that flag stands for in doing so and can take a long walk off a short pier.

And, do you REALLY think those who are refusing to watch because of the kneeling (or at least claim that is why they are not watching) are going to be ok with this as a solution? I sure don't. I think that would make it worse.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Fantomas]

The military is an important financial stakeholder to the NFL and their have input in the way the league is run. For that reason the anthem and other spectacles honoring the military will not go away.

Player activism is interfering with all of this because it questions the legitimacy of the police, which is operating increasingly like the military.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Svechhammer]

Sources: NFL didn't hold formal anthem vote

The league never actually voted on this, and just took an informal polling of executives before finalizing, despite claiming that it was a unanimous vote to implement. Oh, and to deliberately keep the players out of having any kind of say, they put this in the Operations Manual so that it could reside outside of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

I can't imagine this is going to go over well at all with the NFLPA. An action like this, on top of the unchecked power that Goodell has to suspend players on a whim... They've all but guaranteed a work stoppage when the CBA expires.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

And, do you REALLY think those who are refusing to watch because of the kneeling (or at least claim that is why they are not watching) are going to be ok with this as a solution? I sure don't. I think that would make it worse.

If they're claiming to not watch because of the kneeling, removing the anthem removes the avenue of protest and at least you could argue that removing the anthem makes the event apolitical as they hilariously try to suggest they are. There is no other alternative that allows the teams to continue with the gross spectacle of anthem singing without trampling on the principles that the anthem represents and that the nation they purport to be a patriot of was founded upon. Most fans of football would forget it was even a thing after a while. They already forgot that it wasn't a thing for a while.

 

[the4thlinegrinder]

I’m not clear on how this could be a free speech issue. Their 1st Amendment rights aren’t being violated here from what I can see. They can still kneel during the anthem without fear of legal ramifications, which is what the 1A covers. Their employer has simply instituted a new company policy which, as employees, they are required to abide by or risk punishment.

For example, if I swear in front of customers at my job my employer can punish me. That’s not a violation of my Charter right to free expression as I will not be charged legally, only punished by my employer as my conduct doesn’t fall in line with company policy. If I don’t like it I can find a new job.

If someone disagrees with this could you please explain to me why? I’m not looking to argue with anyone, I’m just genuinely curious how it would be seen as a free speech issue.

 

[gstommylee]

Sources: NFL didn't hold formal anthem vote

The league never actually voted on this, and just took an informal polling of executives before finalizing, despite claiming that it was a unanimous vote to implement. Oh, and to deliberately keep the players out of having any kind of say, they put this in the Operations Manual so that it could reside outside of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

I can't imagine this is going to go over well at all with the NFLPA. An action like this, on top of the unchecked power that Goodell has to suspend players on a whim... They've all but guaranteed a work stoppage when the CBA expires.

There is going to work stoppage anyways regardless of what issue the NFLPA has with the league.

 

[Svechhammer]

Unless they're threatening to arrest and criminally charge anyone who kneels, its not a 1st Amendment issue. However, I think this policy was extremely short sighted regarding the PR hit they will take in more liberal areas (which largely exist in more urban areas, where these franchises themselves tend to reside) as well as the damage this will cause because of the additional distrust the NFLPA will now have for the ownership group.

 

[powerstuck]

The best decision NFL could have taken was to eliminate the anthems. Use those 3-4 minutes to sell additional advertising time.

I get the anthems where an athlete represents its country (Olympics, world championships, some individual sports)...

But in a league that's only played in one country ? Heck even for NHL which is played in two countries this has no place, IMO.

 

[patnyrnyg]

If they're claiming to not watch because of the kneeling, removing the anthem removes the avenue of protest and at least you could argue that removing the anthem makes the event apolitical as they hilariously try to suggest they are. There is no other alternative that allows the teams to continue with the gross spectacle of anthem singing without trampling on the principles that the anthem represents and that the nation they purport to be a patriot of was founded upon. Most fans of football would forget it was even a thing after a while. They already forgot that it wasn't a thing for a while.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not think the group of people to whom I am referring will see it that way. The tuned will just change to, "The NFL doesn't respect the country and flag enough to sing the anthem, so I am not watching...."

 

[patnyrnyg]

Unless they're threatening to arrest and criminally charge anyone who kneels, its not a 1st Amendment issue. However, I think this policy was extremely short sighted regarding the PR hit they will take in more liberal areas (which largely exist in more urban areas, where these franchises themselves tend to reside) as well as the damage this will cause because of the additional distrust the NFLPA will now have for the ownership group.

Yes, but the suburbs, where most of the fans who attend games are located, tend to be more conservative.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I understand what you are saying, but I do not think the group of people to whom I am referring will see it that way. The tuned will just change to, "The NFL doesn't respect the country and flag enough to sing the anthem, so I am not watching...."

I'm sure it will in the short term but those people don't have an intelligent principled stand on this issue. They will forget about it after a while and will slowly be conditioned to not care about something that isn't and shouldn't be there. Those people just want to be angry and vent. Once they do, they move on and will come back to watch their team.