NFL: New Anthem Rules, Fines & Other Policies...

[Tawnos]

Good. These guys are doing that on company time in front of the paying customer. Sorry, but the 1st Amendment doesn't apply. And yes, you are offending the paying customer which is an owner's worst nightmare.

They’re also doing it in front of a huge audience of customers who don’t pay and can access it for free.

 

[Gnashville]

Don't run from this. The NFL clearly bent over to their fanbase, which has a large element of racists, because of business reasons. In the long term, this gives even more of an opening for a league like the NBA to pass it as the league is less international and sensitive to the concerns of minoirity citizens. That's an example of white privledge. Choosing money over human rights. And I don't see what "racist liberals" have to do with this. This is a bad decision in the long term.

Yes NFL football fans that are offended by these protests are just Nazi Klansmen only cheering for the white players to succeed and only ask for the white players autographs. Stop playing the “race card” here. People cheer for the team including black and white players, but don’t want liberal politics shoved down their throats. Sports are an escape from politics, and it would be nice for it to remain that way. Calling people racists for being football fans is ridiculous. Please watch the video with an open mind and understand the conservative point of view on race. We are NOT bigots but understand the facts.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yes NFL football fans that are offended by these protests are just Nazi Klansmen only cheering for the white players to succeed and only ask for the white players autographs. Stop playing the “race card” here. People cheer for the team including black and white players, but don’t want liberal politics shoved down their throats. Sports are an escape from politics, and it would be nice for it to remain that way. Calling people racists for being football fans is ridiculous. Please watch the video with an open mind and understand the conservative point of view on race. We are NOT bigots but understand the facts.

It's not about the race card or anything like that. It's just about putting human rights before football and business. And let's stop calling the opposition to this conservative. There is nothing conservative about the people who were boycotting the NFL last year. Conservatives are not supposed to boycott private business, it's against the principles.

 

[Peiskos]

Excellent move by the NFL weed out those opportunistic players looking to exploit their position as a professional athlete by making political statements instead of doing their job and respecting the nation that is paying them millions of dollars while providing them a lifestyle that they won't get anywhere else.

 

[Peiskos]

Forced patriotism is not patriotism.

They aren't forcing anyone to be patriotic, they are only forcing them not to shit on the US anthem and history and war dead.

Big difference.

 

[Monk]

They aren't forcing anyone to be patriotic, they are only forcing them not to **** on the US anthem and history and war dead.

Big difference.

Kneeling during a song does not equal shitting on anything..

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Kneeling during a song does not equal ****ting on anything..

I'm sure you would have no issue with someone taking a knee during some MLK lovefest.

 

[Monk]

I'm sure you would have no issue with someone taking a knee during some MLK lovefest.

OK?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

What would you have recommended the NFL do?

Looking at it through the business goggles, the NFL has a PR issue where the actions of employees on the job are upsetting some significant portion of their customers.

Where they blew it was not acting in a timely fashion.

They should have fined the first who kneeled and let it go through the grievance process. The league could have then said they did what they could and when the fines were likely overturned they had an easy out.

 

[SJGoalie32]

It doesn't matter what size a population is,

Actually it does matter. Because when something affects one group of people disproportionately more than it affects another group, that speaks to the heart of the problem.

This is the fundamental concept of ratios. A goalie who gives up 150 goals over 70 games is better than a goalie who gives up 100 goals in 25 games. If a goalie gives up goals at a far higher rate, there are likely reasons for that. If a group of people gets shot at a far higher rate than another group, there are likely reasons for that.

point is it isn't just black people getting shot

Yes. There are. Which is part of why I support police reform and better training and less aggressive trigger-happy cops who jump to pulling out their guns far sooner than they should. As an American, I want police shooting of American civilians to be an extremely rare absolute last resort option after all other avenues have been exhausted. And if a cop violates his training and best police practices and his actions result in the unnecessary death of another civilian, there should be consequences. And if there is a bad apple who behaves recklessly or incompetently, then the other officers in that police department itself should take that officer to task.....not lying and covering up for him.

Kaepernick's desire and advocacy to see fewer unnecessary deaths at the hands of reckless cops who make poor decisions should be something every American gets behind. I wonder why you are so vehemently opposed to that?

Not really...And the Black Lives Matters people sure aren't marching for any of the white people shot,

Actually, they are. If BLM gets their way and police officers get better training and make better decisions in the field, all people benefit.

And the Black Lives Matters people sure aren't marching for any of the white people shot.....

keep being manipulated, keep believing there is some race war going on like it is the 1950's again...

it is all BULL****...people are not racist, not the majority of this country, not anywhere near it....

There are individuals who are racist on ALL sides of color....

Sooo, there is no race war.....but BLM doesn't care about white people.....but people are not racist.....but there are racists on all sides.

Gotcha?

Not saying life is perfect and there aren't problems, but most of this is smoke and mirrors for the real tragedies going on in this country which aren't being discussed and pushed aside..

Perhaps some members of our society feel that racial discrimination in society at large, and particularly within law enforcement, is a problem that they would also like to address.

Any time **** hits the fan you will see how the vast majority of people treat each other and proves time and time again that people need to stop believing in this false narrative of an epidemic of racism.

What did the Justice Department's investigation into the Ferguson Police Department find?

>>In a searing report released in March 2015, the US Department of Justice uncovered a pattern of racial bias in the Ferguson Police Department. And it argued that the disparities could only be explained, at least in part, by unlawful bias and stereotypes against African Americans.<<

The systemic racism in Baltimore’s police force

>>IN THE Justice Department’s damning, astonishing report on the ingrained, systemic racism in Baltimore’s police department, one tidbit captures the larger picture. It describesan email by a city police supervisor containing a template for officers making trespassing arrests, with blanks to be filled in for date, location, suspect’s name and address — yet, oddly, no prompt for race or gender. Instead, the words “black male” were automatically included. That must have been a convenience for Baltimore patrol officers, who, as the report details, have routinely used minor charges to harass, detain and arrest African Americans for the offenses of walking down the sidewalk, gathering on a corner and speaking to police the wrong way.<<

Go for the individual and not the skin color.

That's what BLM is asking for.

If police, and perhaps even society at large, would simply agree to that, we could indeed all get back to football.

But until then, it's a little hard to just enjoy the game.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It's not about the race card or anything like that. It's just about putting human rights before football and business. And let's stop calling the opposition to this conservative. There is nothing conservative about the people who were boycotting the NFL last year. Conservatives are not supposed to boycott private business, it's against the principles.

I can see why you'd say that given that product boycotts have become a calling card of the liberal Left primarily. But I don't see anything inherently non-conservative about it. After all it is using the market principle to obtain political goals - something liberals are quick to call out when they make corporations do something via boycotts. Conservatives in the past have probably not used this tool enough and allowed their views to be marginalized as a result in a landscape where only financial factors can affect the decisions of business leaders.

What woke up a lot of people I think was that they realized the very same people who celebrated these players and their protests were the types of people who usually try to pressure to fire people because of stuff they say on Twitter or Facebook, people who try to have universities cancel invitations for guest speakers with 'undesirable' opinions etc. In every one of those cases, liberals will say "It's not a 1st amendment issue because businesses and organizations don't have to provide you a platform for your opinions. You're free to voice your opinion, but then you also have to accept the consequences of that."

This, of course, applies to what employees do on company time even more so than to what employees privately say in their social circles. In other words, this boycott actually still expects less from the players than what your typical left-wing hysteria does. Those threats to boycott a company unless so and so is fired are actually designed to ruin people and make certain views entirely disappear, this boycott simply demanded that players cut out that stuff while being on the job. Few care what social justice crusade those guys want to go on in their private time.

 

[SJGoalie32]

Excellent move by the NFL weed out those opportunistic players looking to exploit their position as a professional athlete by making political statements instead of doing their job and respecting the nation that is paying them millions of dollars while providing them a lifestyle that they won't get anywhere else.

They aren't forcing anyone to be patriotic, they are only forcing them not to **** on the US anthem and history and war dead.

Big difference.

"After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest."

- Eric Reid

 

[SJGoalie32]

Sports are an escape from politics, and it would be nice for it to remain that way.

Which is why fans everywhere should be calling for an end to taxpayer funded stadiums and taxpayer supported nationalist displays paid for by the US Armed Services.

If you really want to "escape from politics," let's do away with the anthem and flag ceremonies before all sporting events.

 

[Svechhammer]

If you really want to "escape from politics," let's do away with the anthem and flag ceremonies before all sporting events.

Bingo... The national anthem before these games is a political statement of nationalistic tendencies at its heart. Now, its not necessarily one that anyone at its core disagrees with, we're all fortunate to be living in the US or Canada and should take pride in that.

At the heart of the matter, people just want sports to be an echo chamber of the beliefs they hold dear. Nobody cares when someone praises God or starts going on about "our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" in a postgame interview, but the second someone mentions something with a more liberal mindset, a certain demographic loses its mind. The same demographic that loses its mind because a player might be making a quiet statement during the anthem won't pinch off the stream if they're caught at the urinal during at the first sound of "O Say Can You See".

 

[Gnashville]

It's not about the race card or anything like that. It's just about putting human rights before football and business. And let's stop calling the opposition to this conservative. There is nothing conservative about the people who were boycotting the NFL last year. Conservatives are not supposed to boycott private business, it's against the principles.

It’s not about when you are committing a crime. It’s about when you are not.

So you agree with Kaepernick that People of Color have less freedom than people in Cuba

 

[Melrose Munch]

I can see why you'd say that given that product boycotts have become a calling card of the liberal Left primarily. But I don't see anything inherently non-conservative about it. After all it is using the market principle to obtain political goals - something liberals are quick to call out when they make corporations do something via boycotts. Conservatives in the past have probably not used this tool enough and allowed their views to be marginalized as a result in a landscape where only financial factors can affect the decisions of business leaders.

What woke up a lot of people I think was that they realized the very same people who celebrated these players and their protests were the types of people who usually try to pressure to fire people because of stuff they say on Twitter or Facebook, people who try to have universities cancel invitations for guest speakers with 'undesirable' opinions etc. In every one of those cases, liberals will say "It's not a 1st amendment issue because businesses and organizations don't have to provide you a platform for your opinions. You're free to voice your opinion, but then you also have to accept the consequences of that."

This, of course, applies to what employees do on company time even more so than to what employees privately say in their social circles. In other words, this boycott actually still expects less from the players than what your typical left-wing hysteria does. Those threats to boycott a company unless so and so is fired are actually designed to ruin people and make certain views entirely disappear, this boycott simply demanded that players cut out that stuff while being on the job. Few care what social justice crusade those guys want to go on in their private time.

Great post. What I will say is that why throw out all the principles just because someone is being ridiculous. I do see those who oppose kneeling as non conservative because free speech is supposed to be the bedrock, and not interfering in private business via boycotts. Not to get too political here but the people that oppose kneeling should not be calling themselves conservatives. This is going to cost the NFL in the long run, and make it that much easier for the NBA to be number 1.

So you agree with Kaepernick that People of Color have less freedom than people in Cuba

This is not about communism not matter how much you think it is. This is about racism. You either think that slience black players for protesting police brutality. This is not a left vs right issue. There is nothing conservative about your stance on this.

 

[Tawnos]

So you agree with Kaepernick that People of Color have less freedom than people in Cuba

Nice deflection.

 

[Butch 19]

Actually, they are. If BLM gets their way and police officers get better training and make better decisions in the field, all people benefit.

.

You mean the group that chanted about cops at a state fair march: "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon." (with no retraction later)

Their ideals and goals toward the police are quite clear.

 

[Extra Texture]

They aren't forcing anyone to be patriotic, they are only forcing them not to **** on the US anthem and history and war dead.

Big difference.

No. Just no.

Never mind that the protest was started after consultation with a serviceman who told CK that, by kneeling rather than sitting, that would be respectful but still get the point across. He actually modified his approach because of what he heard from a serviceman who recognized the importance of highlighting issues of social justice but felt it was muted protest that still conferred respect.

I love the people that delude themselves into thinking this is a desecration of American history or war dead. By whining about this, you dishonor the very thing those men died for. The freedom to express your political views and dissent without being victimized (think the men who died in the revolution), the freedom for all Americans to live under the law with a sense of equality (think the men who died in the civil war), and the freedom to not be billyclubed by rampant nationalism when your views contradict the majority (think the men who died liberating fascist Europe). It's the same reasoning that brought you such gems as "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists" and "You cant support the troops and not support the war".

Now this is not aimed at any single poster. But many of the people beating their chest the loudest over this issue think "Valley Forge" is a theme park in suburban LA and "Belleau Wood" is what you call Indian movies. Many of them know sweet f*** all about American history. They couldn't tell you how many men died in the Civil War or who the Sullivan Brothers were, but they have the biggest "honor our troops decal" on their back car window, and really, isnt a shallow, cartoonish understanding of what men and women sacrificed for (and still are, today) what patriotism is all about? That, and of course, supporting politicians who cut the VA. Its the most facile, fake brand of patriotism you can find. Wrapping yourself in the flag but knowing absolutely nothing about what it stands for. If you love your country, you're gonna have to prove it by doing more than watching Fox News's Salute to the Troops (sponsored by Doritos)

I especially love this brand. "I love America so much I'm going to wear a piece of cloth men died for as boxer shorts or on a cheap tie. Hrrr, I respect the flag so much, I only get these dry cleaned." And then they moralize about how other people should be respecting a flag they desecrate with piss stains and spilled beer. This particular hypocrisy drives me nuts

 

[Melrose Munch]

You mean the group that chanted about cops at a state fair march: "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon." (with no retraction later)

Their ideals and goals toward the police are quite clear.

The police are paid with tax dollars. And it costs more tax dollars when black kids are shot and their families have to be financially compensated. Therefore, they are subject to criticism. Especially since we pay their salaries directly, compared to the NFL which is a private business.

 

[SJGoalie32]

You mean the group that chanted about cops at a state fair march: "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon." (with no retraction later)

Yes. Some angry disenfranchised people sometimes say dumb things.

Those comments are terrible. Police abuse and brutality is also terrible.

If BLM protestors can agree to stop calling cops pigs, perhaps police officers could agree to work harder to be less racist and less trigger-happy.

Their ideals and goals toward the police are quite clear.

Their actual stated ideals and goals (which are far beyond a slogan chanted by protestors at one rally a few years back) run counter to that.

Since the group's oft-repeated goals and numerous community actions to engage in dialogue with various local police forces over the past several years completely contradict and overwhelm that one chant, I agree that their ideals and goals toward the police are quite clear.....but I think you still choose not to see or understand them.

There have been many many interactions nationwide between local BLM groups and law enforcement agencies to discuss racial matters. If the "goal" of the group really was to "fry 'em like bacon," those local community discussions and BBQs would have been far bloodier.

 

[Acesolid]

I think how this discussion and thread has derailed into typically American "culture war" identity politics exagerations, anger, frustration, partisan polarized character attacks, and insults.....

Shows why the NFL is desperate to stay away from the tribal "culture wars", and even more tribal partisan politics.

The political division and polarization south of the border hurts me.

It's stunning to me that half the population believes the other half are racist evil fake patriots, and that other half believes the first half are cop-killing communists who hate their country.

When in fact almost everyone obviously wants what's best, and is reasonably patriotic. And real dangerous racists, as well as real dangerous communists.... are a minuscule, insignificant minority!

Hopefully you guys can learn to love each other again. Because I feel your toxic polarization isn't good at all for your future, or ours.

 

[johnjm22]

Cops are paid through our taxes. When a black person gets shot unarmed, it creates discord. It also cost money in the form of payouts to the family, which hits the pockets of taxpayers. That's why we talk about this, that's why the players are taking a knee.

Unarmed black people getting killed by the police is extremely rare. It's not a significant issue statistically speaking. The focus on it is misguided IMO and is one of the criticisms of the kneeling.

Last year 68 unarmed people were killed by the police. 20 of them were Black, 30 of them were white. Obviously, we don't want anyone getting killed in interactions with the cops, but there are much bigger issues.

An unarmed black person is over a 100 times more likely to kill them self than to be killed by the cops.

30K people die per year in the U.S. from falling. An unarmed black person is probably around 200 times more likely to die from falling than from being killed by the police.

It's similar to school shootings. They get the press because people respond to them emotionally, but they're not actually a significant issue relative to all the other gun violence out there.

It would make more sense to take a knee for mass incarceration, or the drug war.

And I'm not saying police brutality isn't an issue. It is, but the focus on it is irrational relative to other issues. And unless I missed something, there seems to be no acknowledgement by Kaepernick & co. of the unarmed white people that get killed. Perhaps if they would have framed it as an issue that affects everyone, while also acknowledging that if affects POC at a higher rate, then maybe there wouldn't be such a negative reaction towards the kneeling.

 

[Gnashville]

I think how this discussion and thread has derailed into typically American "culture war" identity politics exagerations, anger, frustration, partisan polarized character attacks, and insults.....

Shows why the NFL is desperate to stay away from the tribal "culture wars", and even more tribal partisan politics.

The political division and polarization south of the border hurts me.

It's stunning to me that half the population believes the other half are racist evil fake patriots, and that other half believes the first half are cop-killing communists who hate their country.

When in fact almost everyone obviously wants what's best, and is reasonably patriotic. And real dangerous racists, as well as real dangerous communists.... are a minuscule, insignificant minority!

Hopefully you guys can learn to love each other again. Because I feel your toxic polarization isn't good at all for your future, or ours.

This is why the NFL should have stopped the protests when Kaepernick started them.
He himself blurred what he was protesting and everyone else is confused. Calling all Cops racist slave catching pigs, and claiming that Cuba is less oppressive than the USA is offensive. You don’t fight racism with more racism and stereotyping. The protests mean different things to everyone and no one really knows what it’s about. Some are just kneeling in protest of Trump, others because it garners attention and various other reasons.
I am focusing on the original protester and what he believed and said. To me it is offensive to say Fidel Castro’s Cuba is a wonderland of freedom and harmony, while the US is full of evil racist whites that want to commit genocide.

 

[mouser]

We seem to be approaching the end of the business discussion here.