NFL: New Anthem Rules, Fines & Other Policies...

[Acesolid]

it's a protest for civil rights.

And your mass-market product being politicized is bad for business. Especially with political polarization being as crazy as it currently is in the United States.

When the target of your product is EVERYONE, you dont want to take a side in a political fight and alienate 50% of your viewership.

I think the NFL's decision reflects a will to try to not take a side in this fight, but rather to inforce a non-politization of their product.

Here's an exemple:

In the news media business. There are niche news product serving a political side in particular. Like MSNBC serving news to Democrats. Or Fox News to Republicans. Or the Daily Wire to Conservatives. Or The Young Turks to Progressives.... etc....

These target a political base. And the rest of the population is left out.

But there are also mass market news organizations. Like the Associated Press. The Associated Press lives by being 100% unbiaised, accurate, fair, NONPARTISAN. Because if they became politically partisan, they'd lose half their business.

The NFL is like that. They desperately want to be "The Assossiated Press" in people's minds. They do not want a (D) or an (R) in people's minds next to their name. Because that's bad for business for a mass market organization.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Like it or not you knew the league was going to do something eventually and as most workplaces have rules for their employees, the players are going to have to follow this one.

Lol no they won't.

 

[MMC]

Lol no they won't.

If the league is actually going to crack down on fines and possibly suspensions, I don't see how they have much of a choice.

 

[GKJ]

This is a whole bunch of nothing which is par for the course for Goodell. They could've just been obtuse about it and act like nothing actually happened since by mid-season it wasn't an issue anyways. It's basically just going to be a team-specific mandate, which is really what the owners wanted anyways.

 

[Newsworthy]

Yet Eric Reid and Colin K still are unsigned.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

This is all stupid. There’s no need for the anthem before non-international sporting events anyway.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

If the league is actually going to crack down on fines and possibly suspensions, I don't see how they have much of a choice.

The league fines teams and the teams deal with it. Which team do you think wants to be the first one to fine one of their players over this, let alone suspend one? Good Lord I don't even think Bob McNair is dumb enough to do that.

Honestly, I won't be remotely surprised if this gets changed again. The owners are so effing stupid.

 

[LadyStanley]

Why should the NFLPA complain? They can avoid penalties by staying in locker room.

 

[GordonGecko]

The owners are so effing stupid.

Without a shadow of a doubt, makes you wonder how they got there in the first place

 

[Jussi]

How about we just rid of the anthem? Personally find its a dumb tradition in a league setting.

Is it a trend anywhere outside NA anyway?

In Europe there's no anthem in European club football, domestic or international competitions. They're reserved for games between national teams.

I don't know about other countries but in the Finnish hockey league they only play the anthem during the playoffs and I'm not sure if it's only from the semfinals forward or just finals.

 

[Jussi]

Why should the NFLPA complain? They can avoid penalties by staying in locker room.

All teams should do that. Or not have it performed during the regular season at all.

 

[Newsworthy]

If an entire team or teams stay in the lockeroom this issue will still remain.
That is because the media will blow it up. In fact the NFL could have just as easily told Networks to stop broadcasting kneeling players.

 

[gstommylee]

Why should the NFLPA complain? They can avoid penalties by staying in locker room.

They'll complain cause it was never part of CBA.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Without a shadow of a doubt, makes you wonder how they got there in the first place

Their dads died?

 

[kabidjan18]

it's a protest for civil rights.

No. It's not. They don't know what rights they want, so they can't protest for them.

That's the issue with this sort of protest. You talk to twelve different people you get twelve different answers on what policies they actually want changed. Some don't even want a policy change. Some want to abolish the institution of the police. The one thing that unites them all, "this is good because it spreads awareness."

Awareness doesn't do anything. The problem is that the main discussion is tied up in a few legal domains, use-of-force policy, self-defense law, and due process. The number of people who have both the interest and cross-domain expertise to craft policy in such spheres is very low, and of those people, none of them are unaware of the situation. The rest is simply pouring water into the ocean.

Individuals like Lebron James, Beyonce, Colin Kaepernick, they are well intentioned people. They're supporting a just, though nebulous and undefinable, cause. But they're not going to save a single life.

My problem with this penalty is that we have laws against infringement of rights by the government but in many domains, not against infringement of rights by private corporations. Some things, like disrespecting the flag or using racially-charged language, are highly distasteful. However, we need to maintain a barrier between distasteful behavior and illegal behavior. I'm sure conservatives will be pleased by this. However, they should consider that the precedent of companies being allowed to penalize individuals for distasteful (but not illegal) speech could be just as harmful for the right as for the left.

Again, the legal solution for this is unclear. It may not exist at all. However, ideally, threats of physical violence and treason are the only forms of speech that should be actively eliminated.

 

[AmericanDream]

it's a protest for civil rights.

if you say so....

 

[Tawnos]

I hope most of the players stay in the locker rooms. That would be just as, if not more, embarrassing to a league for this policy, which might not even be enforceable anyway.

 

[gstommylee]

I hope most of the players stay in the locker rooms. That would be just as, if not more, embarrassing to a league for this policy, which might not even be enforceable anyway.

And how would it not be enforceable?

 

[Tawnos]

And how would it not be enforceable?

There’s certainly a lot of crossover between the fact that these players are in private employ and in public at the same time. Particularly when most games are carried on channels that are free to watch for everyone and are played in stadiums funded with public dollars. The NFL is a quasi-public organization.

So the 1st Amendment does come potentially into play and I’d have to imagine that enforcement of this policy is going to lead to a lawsuit. How that suit turns out is something I can’t really predict.

 

[awfulwaffle]

And your mass-market product being politicized is bad for business. Especially with political polarization being as crazy as it currently is in the United States.

When the target of your product is EVERYONE, you dont want to take a side in a political fight and alienate 50% of your viewership.

Actually, they are taking a side. They are alienating some of their players, and fans of those players, and communities of those players that deal with the issues they are speaking up about. They are telling them "You can't do this, or you'll face penalties for doing so".

I really don't see the issue with kneeling for the anthem. How many times do you visit a game, and during the national anthem, there are plenty of people(while there are televisions that are showing the flag, or entrances to sections that you can find the flag in the stadium) walking around and completely ignoring the fact that the anthem is going on. Is that not disrespecting the flag as well?

I'm actually tired of the military complex and the cheering of it before games. Especially the "big games" in the playoffs, or opening day, that have flyover's by planes, etc. I think the anthem should just go away before games to be honest.

 

[Melrose Munch]

if you say so....

What do you think it's about?

No. It's not. They don't know what rights they want, so they can't protest for them.

That's the issue with this sort of protest. You talk to twelve different people you get twelve different answers on what policies they actually want changed. Some don't even want a policy change. Some want to abolish the institution of the police. The one thing that unites them all, "this is good because it spreads awareness."

Awareness doesn't do anything. The problem is that the main discussion is tied up in a few legal domains, use-of-force policy, self-defense law, and due process. The number of people who have both the interest and cross-domain expertise to craft policy in such spheres is very low, and of those people, none of them are unaware of the situation. The rest is simply pouring water into the ocean.

Individuals like Lebron James, Beyonce, Colin Kaepernick, they are well intentioned people. They're supporting a just, though nebulous and undefinable, cause. But they're not going to save a single life.

My problem with this penalty is that we have laws against infringement of rights by the government but in many domains, not against infringement of rights by private corporations. Some things, like disrespecting the flag or using racially-charged language, are highly distasteful. However, we need to maintain a barrier between distasteful behavior and illegal behavior. I'm sure conservatives will be pleased by this. However, they should consider that the precedent of companies being allowed to penalize individuals for distasteful (but not illegal) speech could be just as harmful for the right as for the left.

Again, the legal solution for this is unclear. It may not exist at all. However, ideally, threats of physical violence and treason are the only forms of speech that should be actively eliminated.

Interesting to think about. Thanks.

 

[Tawnos]

Actually, they are taking a side. They are alienating some of their players, and fans of those players, and communities of those players that deal with the issues they are speaking up about. They are telling them "You can't do this, or you'll face penalties for doing so".

I really don't see the issue with kneeling for the anthem. How many times do you visit a game, and during the national anthem, there are plenty of people(while there are televisions that are showing the flag, or entrances to sections that you can find the flag in the stadium) walking around and completely ignoring the fact that the anthem is going on. Is that not disrespecting the flag as well?

I'm actually tired of the military complex and the cheering of it before games. Especially the "big games" in the playoffs, or opening day, that have flyover's by planes, etc. I think the anthem should just go away before games to be honest.

Hey I’m with ya. I won’t stand at the tributes to veterans until they start doing the same with retired teachers, firefighters, police officers, sanitation workers, etc etc.

In other words, I won’t be standing for that ever.

 

[gstommylee]

There’s certainly a lot of crossover between the fact that these players are in private employ and in public at the same time. Particularly when most games are carried on channels that are free to watch for everyone and are played in stadiums funded with public dollars. The NFL is a quasi-public organization.

So the 1st Amendment does come potentially into play and I’d have to imagine that enforcement of this policy is going to lead to a lawsuit. How that suit turns out is something I can’t really predict.

The NFL is a private organization. You can't claim freedom of speech violation on a private organization deciding enough is enough. Trying suing for freedom of speech on a private organization is basically saying people can say what ever they want on the job and the company can't punish you. Not going to happen.

The only grounds the NFLPA has is CBA since the NFLPA never agreed to it.

 

[Tawnos]

The NFL is a private organization. You can't claim freedom of speech violation on a private organization deciding enough is enough. Trying suing for freedom of speech on a private organization is basically saying people can say what ever they want on the job and the company can't punish you. Not going to happen.

The only grounds the NFLPA has is CBA since the NFLPA never agreed to it.

That question, about whether or not a sports field is considered a public space/public forum, is not legally settled. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[mouser]

They'll complain cause it was never part of CBA.

Yup, although when a topic is not part of a CBA that often means that the topic is not subject to the current collective bargaining,

Simple NHL example would be attending the Olympics. It’s not part of the current collective bargaining between the NHL and PA.