Eh, Nith's generally a pretty optimistic poster and supporter of the players, I think that's a little different than the "negative" people that ACC was talking about.
But point taken.
News Article: Nazem Kadri: Wrongly Undervalued In Leafs Nation
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Eh, Nith's generally a pretty optimistic poster and supporter of the players, I think that's a little different than the "negative" people that ACC was talking about.
But point taken.
Gary Nylund
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Kadri's PP production was bad this season. Partly this is due to Clarkson but of course Kadri deserves part of blame. I'm confident he'll be much better this year for several reasons.
Me too. Just pointing out for the benefit of a few chosen others that legitimate, well founded criticisms are in fact accepted.
Gary Nylund
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I'll go on the record to say that IMO Kadri is not a perfect hockey player and that I don't worship the ground he walks on.
I'll go on the record to say that IMO Kadri is not a perfect hockey player and that I don't worship the ground he walks on.
Seconded. Motion passed. I will also go on record saying that I'm highly skeptical of his ability to be a 1C.
Phew, glad that's record now.
I propose that this exchange be the only response given when the next "Kadri is infallible, fanboys can't see fault, etc" strawman is inevitably raised.
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The Winter Soldier
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Burke will have his finger prints on this team as he had on the Vancouver team that almost won the cup.
Brown, Percy, Leivo, also.
TLeafsFan
A True BeLeafer
Why? Did he develop them? As a former GM of a team, if you can't find a single player to crack an NHL roster at the draft, god help you.
Daisy Jane
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there's Rielly, Levio, Percy, Brown, etc from the Burke era too.
unless you mean that developed under Burke, then that's different, obviously
Daisy Jane
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It doesn't?So if Kadri wants to be Ghandi, what more does he have to do?
Lead India to a peaceful resolution to independence from Great Britain, and go on a hunger strike.
Lack of compete level, holds Kadri back. Whether a coach, captain or different scenario gives him a wake up call is un-known. He has barely progressed in 3 yrs. He can be a level below the superstars if he wants to be.
I think Kadri has a 60 point season. Hopefully he can look like he did during the lockout season. But also he will be the #1 Center hopefully and get #1 PP time.
Kadri wasn't bad last season. He had awful teamates. His goal production (G/60min) is barely changed from his great lockout season (0.96 to 0.77), while his assist production (A/60min) collapsed (2.22 to 0.77). That's linemates. You can't bake a cake with fecal powder instead of cocoa.
His overall production (1.82 P/60) wasn't even that different from Bozak's (1.87). If you had given him Bozak's TOI and linemates, there's little doubt he would have matched or exceeded his performance.
His overall production (1.82 P/60) wasn't even that different from Bozak's (1.87). If you had given him Bozak's TOI and linemates, there's little doubt he would have matched or exceeded his performance.
ULF_55
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He should be near PPG, getting all the best ice times and should adequately replace Kessel's production.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nazem-kadri-john-tavares-new-york-islanders-toronto-maple-leafs/
I'm not expecting him to do better than Tavares, but really there are no excuses left as Kadri is going to be given prime and ideal opportunities to excel this year.
Easily a career season coming up.
The Winter Soldier
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The relationship of Babcock and Kadri will be interesting thing to watch this year. As hard as Wilson and Carlyle were on Kadri. Babcock will be more demanding.
If Kadri has indeed finally grown up, he may flourish under Babcock. If he is going to be the same player he has been, he will test Babcock's patience. And thus, I do not see a future for him with this Management team.
Potential was the card he could play before each training camp. At 25 in October, potential has to be realized at some point.
If Kadri has indeed finally grown up, he may flourish under Babcock. If he is going to be the same player he has been, he will test Babcock's patience. And thus, I do not see a future for him with this Management team.
Potential was the card he could play before each training camp. At 25 in October, potential has to be realized at some point.
Gary Nylund
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If you expect any player on the Leafs to be near PPG this season then I want some of what you're smoking. Talk about unrealistic expectations ...
Nithoniniel
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He's right about one thing though. Kadri will now be head and shoulders more offensively talented than anyone not named JVR on this roster. I have a feeling even strength time might be spread out, but he should still look at a solid 3+ minutes PP time every game. Even if they keep him and JVR apart, he's looking at offensively solid wingers.
This is the season to show what he can do, regardless of the overall state of the team.
This is the season to show what he can do, regardless of the overall state of the team.
ULF_55
Moderator
Kessel, with Bozak as his center, previous 3 years averaged PPG.
We can throw this season away, the team quit.
Kadri with van Riemsdyk and another 1st. line winger, getting all the prime minutes, all the 1st. PP minutes should be expected to be close to Kessel's production.
Anything less than 70 points or .9 PPG, should be considered a disappointment.
I'm not saying he's going to get the same points, but he should be 90% of Kessel offensively.
Again, Kessel had Bozak as his center and we know Bozak is valued as a 3rd. line center, so replace a 1st. line winger, with a 1st. line center, and add another 2nd. or 1st. line winger to the 1st. line?
1st. winger - 1st. center - 1st./2nd. winger
How could we not expect that to be better than
1st. winger - 3rd. center - 1st. winger
?
Kadri will be playing on a line much superior to any line Kessel ever played on.
Gary Nylund
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It's definitely "the season", I just think expecting near PPG is unrealistic and there's a lot more to evaluating his play than how many points are scored. He could have his best season ever and end up with only 55 points which is why I'm hesitant to talk about Kadri's goals for this season in terms of point production.
The OP mentioned replacing Kessel's production. That's a really dumb way of looking at it IMO. Do we really want Kadri to concentrate on point production at the expense of playing D? I don't think that will be allowed by Babcock period.
Curiosity made me look up who was the last Leaf not named Kessel to score 70+ points in a season. I thought it just might be Sundin, I was right. Then I decided to look up who the last player not named Sundin or Kessel was to score 70+ points with the Leafs. The answer - Mogilny.
I'm assuming Babcock will be placing a lot of importance on being responsible defensively. Given that, Kadri hitting 70 points this season would be an absolutely incredible accomplishment. Is suppose it's in the realm of possibility but expecting "near PPG" from him is not realistic.
"I'm getting my work ethic going"
If you have to consciously have a work ethic, you don't have one to start with. I've seen that so much in the business world. Slackers with tons of talent get away with it for awhile but are exposed.
I like Kadri. He's a nice player. With a one year contract he will most likely be very determined. If he gets a long term rich deal he is likely to become complacent. Seems to be his personality. Who knows.
Somebody mentioned purging the team of the Burke regime. I tend to agree with that. There are some players in the minors that won't be much anyway. So they can be ignored. Start over and do it right. Seems like the Leafs are doing that.
As a NY fan I've seen Lou up close. He tends to rely on the past a ton. He will make this a veteran team. That is what he has done in recent years. He keeps going back to the well but the well is dry. I'd be in favour of getting rid of him before this team is old.
ULF_55
Moderator
36 year old Datsyuk just had over PPG playing on Babcock's Detroit team.
34 year old Zetterberg just had a .86 PPG playing on Babcock's team.
Babcock doesn't limit your offensive abilty.
Kadri was only 5 ESP points behind Kessel this year, playing with AHL calibre wingers.
Add NHL 1st. line wingers to Kadri's line, how can he not score dramatically more points this year?
Add 1st. PP unit time with the best offensive players on the team, how can he not equal the PP points Kessel got with Bozak center the 1st. PP unit?
People forget Kessel was doing it with Bozak as his center, now Kadri is going to be doing it with van Riemsdyk and the third best forward on the team.
Kessel never played on a line of the 3 best forwards. He played with Bozak as his center.
There can be no excuses, even Babcock suggested http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=774256
Everything is setting up to be a career year, at 25 he isn't a prospect, he isn't a youngster, he's a veteran NHL center.
Gary Nylund
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You completely missed my point.
Comparing Kadri to Kessel - why would anyone do that? Isn't "Kessel's way" what we wanted to purge from the Leafs for good?
Get back to me when Babcock says he wants Kadri to play like Kessel.
Gary Nylund
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LOL indeed. It's funny, I must have read here 100 times or so the phrase "no more excuses" and every time it seems to be Kadri who people are talking about. It's interesting that JVR who was a 2nd overall pick seems to escape scrutiny almost entirely. Is JVR so bad that people don't have any real expectations of him this season?
Hey ULF, if you expect Kadri to put up near PPG, what to you expect from JVR? What about Bozak?
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