News Article: Nazem Kadri: Wrongly Undervalued In Leafs Nation

[RLF]

The relationship of Babcock and Kadri will be interesting thing to watch this year. As hard as Wilson and Carlyle were on Kadri. Babcock will be more demanding.

If Kadri has indeed finally grown up, he may flourish under Babcock. If he is going to be the same player he has been, he will test Babcock's patience. And thus, I do not see a future for him with this Management team.

Potential was the card he could play before each training camp. At 25 in October, potential has to be realized at some point.

IMO, this is it in a nutshell. Of course, there will be other factors and it is not all about whether he gets 75 pts or 55 pts. It will be about how he conducts himself on and off the ice. Is there effort? Is he showing maturity and a desire to learn and be part of the system? Patience and potential are one thing, but that only goes for so long. He has to show commitment. Supporters seem to blame past coaching consistently. Nazem has to shoulder some blame here. I honestly don't think Carlisle is as bad a coach as many make him out to be.

Kadri was also the third line centre during his best season, not 1st or 2nd, which he should be now. Without commitment from his side, he will not likely succeed against the tougher checking and match-ups a 1st and 2nd line centre receive. Most teams will know, "shut down Kadri and JVR and the Leafs will have trouble scoring".
Increased minutes or not, he is going to have to want it and put the effort into making it happen.

 

[slozo]

Yup, it's Kadri's year to show up, or shut up. Well, that's being a bit dramatic, really...it's not just a boom or bust situation I think.

A really likely outcome might be, top line centre, 55 pts, but he develops into a better defensive player, gets better at faceoffs.

Babcock's influence could take years to fully show.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

IMO, this is it in a nutshell. Of course, there will be other factors and it is not all about whether he gets 75 pts or 55 pts. It will be about how he conducts himself on and off the ice. Is there effort? Is he showing maturity and a desire to learn and be part of the system? Patience and potential are one thing, but that only goes for so long. He has to show commitment. Supporters seem to blame past coaching consistently. Nazem has to shoulder some blame here. I honestly don't think Carlisle is as bad a coach as many make him out to be.

Kadri was also the third line centre during his best season, not 1st or 2nd, which he should be now. Without commitment from his side, he will not likely succeed against the tougher checking and match-ups a 1st and 2nd line centre receive. Most teams will know, "shut down Kadri and JVR and the Leafs will have trouble scoring".
Increased minutes or not, he is going to have to want it and put the effort into making it happen.

Terrific post. Enjoy reading truly down the middle comments like these. I too do not think Carlyle is a bad coach. He was the one that actually put Nazem at Center in the 48 game season when Wilson didn't. Had Kadri proven he deserved more time in key situations, there is no way he would stand in his way. As he did with Getzlaf in Anaheim when he was a young player. It is on Kadri and no one else if he succeeds or fails. No one else should be blamed or lauded in either case.

 

[Menzinger]

Kessel, with Bozak as his center, previous 3 years averaged PPG.

We can throw this season away, the team quit.

Kadri with van Riemsdyk and another 1st. line winger, getting all the prime minutes, all the 1st. PP minutes should be expected to be close to Kessel's production.

Anything less than 70 points or .9 PPG, should be considered a disappointment.

I'm not saying he's going to get the same points, but he should be 90% of Kessel offensively.

Again, Kessel had Bozak as his center and we know Bozak is valued as a 3rd. line center, so replace a 1st. line winger, with a 1st. line center, and add another 2nd. or 1st. line winger to the 1st. line?

1st. winger - 1st. center - 1st./2nd. winger

How could we not expect that to be better than

1st. winger - 3rd. center - 1st. winger

?

Kadri will be playing on a line much superior to any line Kessel ever played on.

Kessel is one of the premier offensive players in the world - to expect another player to even be able to replicate 90% of his production simply because they are given similar icetime is illogical.

The Leafs will likely be only able to ice 1 legit top six line - which will be easy to shut down by smart coaches. To say Kadri has to get an arbitrary number of 70 points or is a bust is setting him up for failure.

Let the kid play and we'll see how he handles himself - and tgen we can decide whether he was a success or not.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kessel is one of the premier offensive players in the world - to expect another player to even be able to replicate 90% of his production simply because they are given similar icetime is illogical.

The Leafs will likely be only able to ice 1 legit top six line - which will be easy to shut down by smart coaches. To say Kadri has to get an arbitrary number of 70 points or is a bust is setting him up for failure.

Let the kid play and we'll see how he handles himself - and tgen we can decide whether he was a success or not.

Mike Ribeiro had a 65 point season by age 23. I don't think it's unfair to expect a 25 year old to have his best season at this age. 25 is not a kid anymore.

 

[ULF_55]

Kessel is one of the premier offensive players in the world - to expect another player to even be able to replicate 90% of his production simply because they are given similar icetime is illogical.

The Leafs will likely be only able to ice 1 legit top six line - which will be easy to shut down by smart coaches. To say Kadri has to get an arbitrary number of 70 points or is a bust is setting him up for failure.

Let the kid play and we'll see how he handles himself - and tgen we can decide whether he was a success or not.

What would you expect of Tavares with van Riemsdyk, and another top 6 winger on his line?

There is very little difference in talent between Tavares and Kadri, probably the biggest difference is effort.

 

[Menzinger]

What would you expect of Tavares with van Riemsdyk, and another top 6 winger on his line?

There is very little difference in talent between Tavares and Kadri, probably the biggest difference is effort.

They play on two different teams - different coaching systems. It's not as simple as play player X along side player Y and they would automatically get 70 points.

And I'd disagree about the comparison. Tavares is the better player - he was drafted higher, and has produced better over time. I think Kadri is a good player, but this is an unfair comparison.

 

[Menzinger]

Mike Ribeiro had a 65 point season by age 23. I don't think it's unfair to expect a 25 year old to have his best season at this age. 25 is not a kid anymore.

I think Kadri is capable of putting up 65 points. I'm questioning whether he will be able to do so on the train wreck that will be the Leafs next season.

It's not out of the question that the entire team scores less than 200 goals.

 

[Nithoniniel]

They play on two different teams - different coaching systems. It's not as simple as play player X along side player Y and they would automatically get 70 points.

And I'd disagree about the comparison. Tavares is the better player - he was drafted higher, and has produced better over time. I think Kadri is a good player, but this is an unfair comparison.

I was about to say he brought it on himself, but I think that's a bit unfair. He opened up the opportunity for people to misinterpret him though.

Kadri was commenting on what makes Tavares so terrific is that not only does he have godly talent, he has the work ethic of someone with pedestrian talent dead-set on making the show. It was clear that he looked up to that and felt it was an area where he was severely falling behind. People took it that he meant he's just as good as Tavares though.

 

[Purity*]

36 year old Datsyuk just had over PPG playing on Babcock's Detroit team.
34 year old Zetterberg just had a .86 PPG playing on Babcock's team.

Babcock doesn't limit your offensive abilty.

Kadri was only 5 ESP points behind Kessel this year, playing with AHL calibre wingers.

Add NHL 1st. line wingers to Kadri's line, how can he not score dramatically more points this year?

Add 1st. PP unit time with the best offensive players on the team, how can he not equal the PP points Kessel got with Bozak center the 1st. PP unit?

People forget Kessel was doing it with Bozak as his center, now Kadri is going to be doing it with van Riemsdyk and the third best forward on the team.

Kessel never played on a line of the 3 best forwards. He played with Bozak as his center.

There can be no excuses, even Babcock suggested http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=774256


Everything is setting up to be a career year, at 25 he isn't a prospect, he isn't a youngster, he's a veteran NHL center.

Kadri is not Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Expecting near a point-per-game is simply too high of expectations, regardless of the offensive minutes he gets.

I wouldn't expect him to get anywhere near matching Kessel's production either (last year maybe, but his PPG years, I very highly doubt it).

He isn't as much of a "veteran" center as much as he is a journeyman center at this point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I find it interesting that people keep saying well if Tavares/Datsyuk etc. can do it, why can't Kadri.

Kadri is a good #2C. Maybe he can be better, maybe not but expecting that kind of performance and criticizing him if he doesn't do it makes no sense.

And as far as him playing with "top 6 wingers" goes - first, let's see who he plays with. Babcock might want to spread out the offence, there's no guarantee Kadri and JVR will be together. After Kadri and JVR, there's a pretty big drop to the next guy, I'm not sure we even have another "top 6" winger on the team this season. And expecting Kadri to put up #1C numbers without two top-line wingers (as opposed to top-6/top 9 wingers) is another head-scratcher.

And again, there's a ton more to judging any players performance then counting his point production. Or do you guys all want Kessel back to show everybody how it's done?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think Kadri is capable of putting up 65 points. I'm questioning whether he will be able to do so on the train wreck that will be the Leafs next season.

It's not out of the question that the entire team scores less than 200 goals.

With the exception of 12-13, what Leafs team has not been a train wreck? This is a fallacy. It didn't stop Lupul from 67 points in 66 games, Kessel PPG pace for 3 seasons, JVR from having a career year of 61 points, Bozak 49 points in 58 games(almost a 70 point pace), even Grabovski had a near 60 point season.

I would not be so sure this season will be as bad as last season. That was an aberration. So if one player is excused for a bad year, maybe all can be. We will see.

 

[Bluelines]

There is very little difference in talent between Tavares and Kadri, probably the biggest difference is effort.

Whut?

 

[Bluelines]

I find it interesting that people keep saying well if Tavares/Datsyuk etc. can do it, why can't Kadri.

Kadri is a good #2C. Maybe he can be better, maybe not but expecting that kind of performance and criticizing him if he doesn't do it makes no sense.

Kadri COULD be a good #2 center... not sure he's proved anything except for he can dominate when the match ups are in his favor. Kid has great hands just needs to become a bulldog on the ice.

There was a game a few years back where Kadri was a monster pretty sure it was in Montreal, he laid out a Hab behind the icing line, I think he scored too, that is what I hope he brings this year.

 

[IBeL34f]

Kadri COULD be a good #2 center... not sure he's proved anything except for he can dominate when the match ups are in his favor. Kid has great hands just needs to become a bulldog on the ice.

There was a game a few years back where Kadri was a monster pretty sure it was in Montreal, he laid out a Hab behind the icing line, I think he scored too, that is what I hope he brings this year.

That was part of what made him such a monster in the lockout season.

He's so good at that agitating game when he wants to be, and he actually seems to produce more when he plays tough. I think maybe he started trying to hold back a bit after the suspension on the Backstrom hit. I'd like to see more of that this year, for sure.

 

[Purity*]

Kadri COULD be a good #2 center... not sure he's proved anything except for he can dominate when the match ups are in his favor. Kid has great hands just needs to become a bulldog on the ice.

There was a game a few years back where Kadri was a monster pretty sure it was in Montreal, he laid out a Hab behind the icing line, I think he scored too, that is what I hope he brings this year.

He laid out Alexei Emelin who's a big guy. Kadri's a very good hitter for his size. The one game against Tampa he even took on 6'6" 230lb Viktor Hedman in a fight. His agitating/penalty drawing can be awesome to watch.

He just needs to bring this on a consistent basis.

With the exception of 12-13, what Leafs team has not been a train wreck? This is a fallacy. It didn't stop Lupul from 67 points in 66 games, Kessel PPG pace for 3 seasons, JVR from having a career year of 61 points, Bozak 49 points in 58 games(almost a 70 point pace), even Grabovski had a near 60 point season.

I would not be so sure this season will be as bad as last season. That was an aberration. So if one player is excused for a bad year, maybe all can be. We will see.

What is with your reasonable criticisms recently? Who are you and what have you done with Interactif?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What is with your reasonable criticisms recently? Who are you and what have you done with Interactif?

What does this have to do with my reply on Kadri?

 

[Purity*]

What does this have to do with my reply on Kadri?

Quoted the wrong post.

Terrific post. Enjoy reading truly down the middle comments like these. I too do not think Carlyle is a bad coach. He was the one that actually put Nazem at Center in the 48 game season when Wilson didn't. Had Kadri proven he deserved more time in key situations, there is no way he would stand in his way. As he did with Getzlaf in Anaheim when he was a young player. It is on Kadri and no one else if he succeeds or fails. No one else should be blamed or lauded in either case.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Quoted the wrong post.

And? How can I help you on this?

 

[Bluelines]

He laid out Alexei Emelin who's a big guy. Kadri's a very good hitter for his size. The one game against Tampa he even took on 6'6" 230lb Viktor Hedman in a fight. His agitating/penalty drawing can be awesome to watch.

Not making excuses for NaKa but I think Kadri has the attention of the refs, probably because he draws a lot of PIM - opposing teams say hes a diver, its hard to play that kind of game (playing on the edge of clean and dirty) when the refs are looking for you to dive. I think he was somewhat unfairly targeted last year.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

People excel and grow at different rates. Kadri will be in a transition year where he is being asked to take on and thrive with more responsibility. This will be his first year as a first line center.

The only real issue for him is his off ice trouble needs to disappear altogether. His production will only dictate his future salary. It will not be a this is your last chance year and nor should it be.

All this last chance talk is no more than speculating to me.

 

[Menzinger]

With the exception of 12-13, what Leafs team has not been a train wreck? This is a fallacy. It didn't stop Lupul from 67 points in 66 games, Kessel PPG pace for 3 seasons, JVR from having a career year of 61 points, Bozak 49 points in 58 games(almost a 70 point pace), even Grabovski had a near 60 point season.

I would not be so sure this season will be as bad as last season. That was an aberration. So if one player is excused for a bad year, maybe all can be. We will see.

The Leafs certainly have been bad for a while - though i do feel this is likely the worst team (on paper) the team has iced over the past few years.

All three of your examples had career years playing alongside Kessel - who is now gone.

But ultimately, I do agree with one point: we can't predict the future, so let's see how things pan out. I think 60 points is well within reach of Kadri given his increased icetime, but I don't necessarily think just because he falls short of that he will have had a poor season.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

IMO, this is it in a nutshell. Of course, there will be other factors and it is not all about whether he gets 75 pts or 55 pts. It will be about how he conducts himself on and off the ice. Is there effort? Is he showing maturity and a desire to learn and be part of the system? Patience and potential are one thing, but that only goes for so long. He has to show commitment. Supporters seem to blame past coaching consistently. Nazem has to shoulder some blame here. I honestly don't think Carlisle is as bad a coach as many make him out to be.

Kadri was also the third line centre during his best season, not 1st or 2nd, which he should be now. Without commitment from his side, he will not likely succeed against the tougher checking and match-ups a 1st and 2nd line centre receive. Most teams will know, "shut down Kadri and JVR and the Leafs will have trouble scoring".
Increased minutes or not, he is going to have to want it and put the effort into making it happen.

Sadly, Carlyle is a terrible coach. He has been for several years, dating back to his final seasons in Anaheim. His systems are ancient in this NHL, and the pathetic possession numbers of his teams prove that.

Kadri was the 3rd line center, however he was the best center on the team, by a wide margin. He earned 1st line duty that season, but was never rewarded for it. Have you ever seen a 3rd line center score at a near point per game rate, and not be promoted? Carlyle refused to give him an opportunity shouldering the biggest minutes in all situations, which honestly made no sense whatsoever.

There's no doubt that he should be the first line center this year. Bozak and Holland are interchangeable at 2c and 3c. But this is finally Kadri's year to tackle the heaviest workload. I think he's ready.

 

[ULF_55]

The Leafs certainly have been bad for a while - though i do feel this is likely the worst team (on paper) the team has iced over the past few years.

All three of your examples had career years playing alongside Kessel - who is now gone.

But ultimately, I do agree with one point: we can't predict the future, so let's see how things pan out. I think 60 points is well within reach of Kadri given his increased icetime, but I don't necessarily think just because he falls short of that he will have had a poor season.

I think this team might be better than last year's team.

Coaching might be better.

I think even some of the rentals they picked up are better, more skill based than previously acquired. The Leafs are looking more like a desired revive my career location, and better skilled players are looking at them.

For those that have been around a while, they'll remember when Sundin was injured a few times the rest of the team played better. They didn't defer to Sundin, they stepped up.

I think we Kessel gone, players will step up, and take on more responsibility.

I think the team improved just by moving Kessel, even without replacing him.

Many teams did better than the Leafs last year, and they didn't have Kessel.

Who knows, the key might be whether Bernier is a flash in the pan, and last year is more who he is than the 1st. year he was here and put up good numbers.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sadly, Carlyle is a terrible coach. He has been for several years, dating back to his final seasons in Anaheim. His systems are ancient in this NHL, and the pathetic possession numbers of his teams prove that.

Kadri was the 3rd line center, however he was the best center on the team, by a wide margin. He earned 1st line duty that season, but was never rewarded for it. Have you ever seen a 3rd line center score at a near point per game rate, and not be promoted? Carlyle refused to give him an opportunity shouldering the biggest minutes in all situations, which honestly made no sense whatsoever.

There's no doubt that he should be the first line center this year. Bozak and Holland are interchangeable at 2c and 3c. But this is finally Kadri's year to tackle the heaviest workload. I think he's ready.

This. So much this!!

So much has been made of Kadri's attitude, off-ice issues etc. We don't know what the off-ice issues are (besides being late once) but there's obviously something there that's fair. The flip side is though that Kadri has every right to feel somewhat unappreciated and perhaps even mistreated in his time here - had he been treated more fairly then it's possible his "attitude" would also be much better.

I'm just happy that he hasn't asked to be traded. There's a new regime in town, hopefully it's not too late for the player-team relationship to be mended. Kadri is already a good player but maybe he can be better, maybe there is a #1C in there somewhere, how awesome would that be!

For me, that's the most interesting story to follow this season. The team will likely be really bad but hopefully there will be something worth watching in Kadri.