News Article: Nazem Kadri: Wrongly Undervalued In Leafs Nation

[Joey Hoser]

So no takers? Thought so...

I'll take it.

We don't have them, because they're great, NOW, in hindsight, after they played over their heads. If you asked who was our Giordano and Gaudreau was last September, the answer would have been, "Who the **** are Giordano and Gaudreau?" The point is that the Leafs could overachieve as well, if they get improved performances beyond what you'd expect, like Calgary did from the guys you mentioned. If we looked as good as the Flames do now, we wouldn't be talking about how they could be the longshot that makes it because they wouldn't be a longshot.

I like that you ignored my question and instead complained about how nobody answered your question. So I'll post it again:

Let's do it this way.

The question is, "Do you feel like you guys can pull off something similar to what Calgary did last year?"

How SHOULD Kadri have responded to such a question, in your opinion?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

So this is why your statement sounds so myopic.


Who is our Giordano? Who's our Gaudreau? Who's our Hudler? Who's our Wideman? Who's our Brodie? Who's our Monahan? Who's our Hiller?

See in order to have the season that Calgary had ... we kinda need some good players like Calgary had have great years like they did ... ya kinda need those type of players to step up and have those kind of seasons... is Bozie gonna step up and be our Monahan? LOL... Is Dion going to all of a sudden sprout wings and be a Norris candidate? Rrrrrrright......... and I have some swamp land for sale...

I guess when I put it that way, the blue and white goggle fan club sounds even more disconnected with reality. Yes indeed we CAN have seven players have career years... yep we sure can... just a sec my pet cheetah wants to have a race around my backyard... OF COURSE I have a pet cheetah... I need to keep in shape to break the world record for marathons when I run on the moon...

See its kinda disingenuous to tell people you can do something when reality tells you that you probably can't... usually as you mature, experience teaches you to speak the truth and not what you think people want to hear... clearly he has some maturing to do.

.

Giordano - Gardiner
Gaudreau - Kadri
Hudler - Lupul or JVR
Wideman - Phaneuf
Brodie - Rielly
Hiller - Bernier

I'm not expecting the Leafs to make the playoffs this season, but it's dumb to think there's no chance, just like it was dumb to think it about Calgary last year.

Nonetheless, one season is only good for one season. Calgary could fall off the map this year and show last season was a fluke (I think it was).

I'm not sure what you're really getting at, but Kadri's answer was perfect. He acknowledged that it's possible, and he admitted it would be a surprise. Confident, but not arrogant.

 

[Bluelines]

I'll take it.

We don't have them, because they're great, NOW, in hindsight, after they played over their heads. If you asked who was our Giordano and Gaudreau was last September, the answer would have been, "Who the **** are Giordano and Gaudreau?" The point is that the Leafs could overachieve as well, if they get improved performances beyond what you'd expect, like Calgary did from the guys you mentioned. If we looked as good as the Flames do now, we wouldn't be talking about how they could be the longshot that makes it because they wouldn't be a longshot.

I like that you ignored my question and instead complained about how nobody answered your question. So I'll post it again:

Gio was that guy who scored two in his first game against us back in 06, not sure why you didn't know about him. Most people west and east of Toronto know who he was before last year. The guy has been a really solid defender for quite some time, not Norris like but solid none the less.

Gaudreau won that Hobey Baloney award a year ago, why would anyone hear of a guy who wins the trophy for the best player in US College hockey?

Pretty simple response, "I think what Calgary did last year was special, they had every player pulling in the right direction, for us to do what Calgary did, we will have to have put in a considerable amount of work and effort and hopefully everything falls in line."

 

[Nithoniniel]

Sure, but that kind of answer is very very rare.

Go take a look at how players from teams considered bottom of the barrel respond to similar questions and you'll see that they all say pretty much the same thing.

Is it just Kadri who need to mature then? Because you'd prefer him to not say the cookie cutter answer like pretty much every NHLer do?

 

[Joey Hoser]

Gio was that guy who scored two in his first game against us back in 06, not sure why you didn't know about him. Most people west and east of Toronto know who he was before last year. The guy has been a really solid defender for quite some time, not Norris like but solid none the less.

Gaudreau won that Hobey Baloney award a year ago, why would anyone hear of a guy who wins the trophy for the best player in US College hockey?

Ok well if all you're asking for was solid players/prospects who could take their games to high levels then we have that in Rielly, Nylander and some debatable others. We could be as confident about that as Calgary was(which wasn't very much) going into last season.

Pretty simple response, "I think what Calgary did last year was special, they had every player pulling in the right direction, for us to do what Calgary did, we will have to have put in a considerable amount of work and effort and hopefully everything falls in line."

That acknowledges that they can make the playoffs. You basically just repeated what he said without those specific words.

 

[IBeL34f]

Ok well if all you're asking for was solid players/prospects who could take their games to high levels then we have that in Rielly, Nylander and some debatable others. We could be as confident about that as Calgary was(which wasn't very much) going into last season.



That acknowledges that they can make the playoffs. You basically just repeated what he said without those specific words.

Yeah, but he didn't say "Of course".

 

[Mitchy]

Going to take a shot in the dark here and guess some of his supporters aren't helping. I like Kadri but man am I tired of hearing about its everyone else's fault when he struggles.

So, his critics say that he has a bad attitude and doesn't care enough, then some posters show proof of his dedication and commitment, yet he gets criticized anyway. That's ridiculous.

Also, if people are going to hate on a player just because some think he is a good, hard-working player, then

 

[Nithoniniel]

Brian Burke said ""I like the group that finished the year, I think just on internal improvement we will be better. I think we will be good enough with this group and a couple additions to say in training camp that the playoffs are a reasonable goal."

Kadri says "of course we can (do what the flames did)".

Both reasonable statements, based on hope and competitive fires. Personally, I think Kadri will be as wrong as Burke was but hey, what are either to say really? It's an unfair question.

Then we are agreed that Kadri and Burke are both in the same camp with respect to their assessment and setting fans expectations. Some of you pro-Kadri guys and Anti-Burke guys owe Mr Burke an apology.

The problem people had with Burke wasn't that he said he thinks we can make the playoffs. It's that he made decisions on that premise that was very unwise.

For Kadri to do his job he needs to work according to this idea, or at least as if that was the goal. For Burke to do his job, he needs to make a more realistic read on the situation.

That should go without saying.

Show your work.

You actually need proof of this?

Sometimes I seem to trick myself to think I'm discussing with actual hockey fans. Anyone who has followed NHL, or just sports in general, knows that this is the kind of answers you get.

 

[Bluelines]

So, his critics say that he has a bad attitude and doesn't care enough, then some posters show proof of his dedication and commitment, yet he gets criticized anyway. That's ridiculous.

Also, if people are going to hate on a player just because some think he is a good, hard-working player, then

Clearly Kadri thinks he's pretty good too.

The famously-confident Kadri still believes he was prepared for full-time NHL duty as a teenager. Don Cherry has certainly made it known loud and clear that he agrees.

“I felt like I really could’ve made the jump,†Kadri said

What says you Kadri posse, could he have made it as a 18 year old?

 

[Bluelines]

Just because you say "If an "unlikely" thing happens, achieving an "unlikely" goal is possible", doesn't mean you're not saying "We can do it". It's just a different way of saying "We can do it".

No its not, one has a definite outcome the other does not. The difference is not subtle, not sure why this concept is so hard to grasp.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Clearly Kadri thinks he's pretty good too.

The famously-confident Kadri still believes he was prepared for full-time NHL duty as a teenager. Don Cherry has certainly made it known loud and clear that he agrees.

“I felt like I really could’ve made the jump,†Kadri said

What says you Kadri posse, could he have made it as a 18 year old?

What does this matter at all? He didn't.

 

[ECanuck]

I wouldn't want any other player on the leafs to think any other way. All the players care about is winning and making the playoffs. Don't expect an analyst's answer.

 

[Bluelines]

If he could have made it.. he would have. There's really no discussion to have. What happens if the Japanese don't bomb Pearl Harbour? What if Rose let Jack lay on the driftwood? What if Neo took the other pill? What if the Leafs won more games than any other team in the league last year?

If the Japanese don't bomb Pearl Harbor, the Russians would have invaded Japan and probably genocide.

If Jack was able to lay on the driftwood, it would still be a horrible movie.

If Neo took the other pill nothing would have happened , it was a placebo.

If the Leafs won more games, they would have won the Presidents trophy and we don't draft Mitch. Randy is not fired and Nonis keeps his job, Babcok is not hired,

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So, his critics say that he has a bad attitude and doesn't care enough, then some posters show proof of his dedication and commitment, yet he gets criticized anyway. That's ridiculous.

Also, if people are going to hate on a player just because some think he is a good, hard-working player, then

Whoa hang on there, if people were just being positive about Kadri all the time I don't think anyone would care. The problem isn't they say nice things about Kadri the problem is they say terrible things about everyone else. The problem is when Kadri's not performing there are a plethora of reasons blaming everyone else, there's always a reason and it's never his fault.

The Leafs had a bad season, they've had some pretty tough years where Kadri was a core piece but Kadri is somehow absolved from blame, that's the issue not that people say nice things about him.

That is what is tiring.

 

[Muston Atthews]

If the Japanese don't bomb Pearl Harbor, the Russians would have invaded Japan and probably genocide.

If Jack was able to lay on the driftwood, it would still be a horrible movie.

If Neo took the other pill nothing would have happened , it was a placebo.

If the Leafs won more games, they would have won the Presidents trophy and we don't draft Mitch. Randy is not fired and Nonis keeps his job, Babcok is not hired,

See, great discussion we had.

 

[Pookie]

The problem people had with Burke wasn't that he said he thinks we can make the playoffs. It's that he made decisions on that premise that was very unwise.

For Kadri to do his job he needs to work according to this idea, or at least as if that was the goal. For Burke to do his job, he needs to make a more realistic read on the situation.

That should go without saying.

No.

That's just defending Kadri. Burke (2010) and Kadri are articulating expectations around playoffs.

If you are going to praise Kadri for his competitive spirit you need to praise Burke for the same.

Anything else is inconsistent. I'm absolutely sure everyone wants to be objective here. The ONLY conclusion is that Burke and Kadri share the same objective evaluation of their team. Playoff possible.

Please insert your Burke apology here:

I ___________________ apologize for saying that you Mr Burke mislead the fans with unrealistic plaayoff expectations. I realize that you and Mr. Kadri are promising a competitive team.
Who accrording to me have a good hande on making the playoffs (*snicker)

 

[Nithoniniel]

No.

That's just defending Kadri. Burke (2010) and Kadri are articulating expectations around playoffs.

If you are going to praise Kadri for his competitive spirit you need to praise Burke for the same.

Anything else is inconsistent. I'm absolutely sure everyone wants to be objective here. The ONLY conclusion is that Burke and Kadri share the same objective evaluation of their team. Playoff possible.

Please insert your Burke apology here:

I ___________________ apologize for saying that you Mr Burke mislead the fans with unrealistic plaayoff expectations. I realize that you and Mr. Kadri are promising a competitive team.
Who accrording to me have a good hande on making the playoffs (*snicker)

Oh sure, good on Burke for having a competitive spirit. He really shouldn't let that affect his ability to do his job though.

I'm sorry that I didn't sign your little creation. I never said such a thing about Burke, I don't hold it against players for saying what every player do and I don't sign things that end with a snide little remark about me that is conjured up from someones imagination.

The transformation in you as a poster whenever the subject turns to Kadri is quite remarkable, Pookie.

Whoa hang on there, if people were just being positive about Kadri all the time I don't think anyone would care. The problem isn't they say nice things about Kadri the problem is they say terrible things about everyone else. The problem is when Kadri's not performing there are a plethora of reasons blaming everyone else, there's always a reason and it's never his fault.

The Leafs had a bad season, they've had some pretty tough years where Kadri was a core piece but Kadri is somehow absolved from blame, that's the issue not that people say nice things about him.

That is what is tiring.

This whole forum has a tendency to try and raise players up by pushing down others. It's very annoying.

I think Kadri deserves blame for one thing in particular last season. His work on the power play was abysmal. That whole unit was one of the worst in the league, and Kadri was the one running it. Clarkson or no Clarkson, that's at least partially on him.

Oh, that's beside the off-ice issues though. I want to see him answer to that with some great professionalism this season. So far so good, with what we've heard about his off-season training.

 

[Joey Hoser]

No.

That's just defending Kadri. Burke (2010) and Kadri are articulating expectations around playoffs.

If you are going to praise Kadri for his competitive spirit you need to praise Burke for the same.

Anything else is inconsistent. I'm absolutely sure everyone wants to be objective here. The ONLY conclusion is that Burke and Kadri share the same objective evaluation of their team. Playoff possible.

Please insert your Burke apology here:

I ___________________ apologize for saying that you Mr Burke mislead the fans with unrealistic plaayoff expectations. I realize that you and Mr. Kadri are promising a competitive team.
Who accrording to me have a good hande on making the playoffs (*snicker)

You don't see the difference between a GM gong out of their way to set expectations for everyone, and a player merely responding to a question asked of them?

 

[Bluelines]

You don't see the difference between a GM gong out of their way to set expectations for everyone, and a player merely responding to a question asked of them?

You don't see it deceptive to set unrealistic expectations? If you tell your wife that you think you absolutely have the chance to compete and win the Mr. Olympia competition in September. Are you setting the expectations of a winner or telling her a lie that only a guy with his heads in the clouds can tell?

In psychology, therapist will tell you can't fix a problem till you admit there is one. In both Burke's and Kadri's statement they (and a few youthful inexperienced posters) glossed over clear and obvious problems with narrow minded fantasies. Granted Burke sounded a bit more grounded in his statement. When a GM or an athlete can't see the forest through the tree's that is an individual that can't set realistic goals or has a solid grasp on the effort and skill needed to make the playoffs. That is special kind of hubris, that until you find a way to bury it, will be your Achilles heel.

They say if you believe it, its not a lie, maybe he needs Dr Phil and not Gary Roberts.

 

[Pookie]

You don't see the difference between a GM gong out of their way to set expectations for everyone, and a player merely responding to a question asked of them?

I actually think both responses are reasonable. In fact, I think I said that. Yes, yes I did. I also said that I think it is an unfair question to ask as what is a competitive professional supposed to say? I would say the same thing.

I am also aware though that some posters that are fine with Kadri saying it have also criticized Burke for "misjudging" the team and setting fans expectations too high. That is the inconsistency.

I am fine that Kadri said it. I am fine that Burke said it.

 

[Gallagbi]

Burkes "issue" was making moves based on that expectation of playoffs.

Kadri does not have that ability, he's simply a player making a pretty expected comment. The outrage in this thread is insane.

 

[Pookie]

Burkes issue was making moves based on that expectation of playoffs.

Kadri does not have that ability, he's simply a player making a pretty expected comment. The outrage in this thread is insane.

That's fair both have different roles. But I am clearly not talking about their positions. I am talking about their beliefs. Burke was mocked when he said it. how can you fault Burke for having that belief in his team and at the same time dismiss Kadri's?

Again, I don't have an issue with either. I would say the same thing if I were in either role.

 

[Bluelines]

Burkes "issue" was making moves based on that expectation of playoffs.

Kadri does not have that ability, he's simply a player making a pretty expected comment. The outrage in this thread is insane.

That is unfortunate that you expect athletes to be deceptive.

 

[Pookie]

That is unfortunate that you expect athletes to be deceptive.

I know you aren't asking me but I don't think he was deceptive. Just competitive.

I think this team is awful and he will be wrong but I can't fault a guy for wanting to compete. Just my opinion.

 

[Pookie]

Oh sure, good on Burke for having a competitive spirit. He really shouldn't let that affect his ability to do his job though.

I'm sorry that I didn't sign your little creation. I never said such a thing about Burke, I don't hold it against players for saying what every player do and I don't sign things that end with a snide little remark about me that is conjured up from someones imagination.

We are agreed. We never criticized Burke for believing the team, with tweaks, could make the playoffs.

The "petition" wasn't intended for you. Cheers.