Nazem Kadri (Pre- Deadline).

[Wafflewhipper]

How can you be sure #43 hasn't reached his peak?With most players you know what you have by 25 years old.

Most yes. Not all and he fits into late developer. Another year under babcock and a consistent set pf quality wingers next year would give a full picture to what you have.

Nothing wrong with that in my book. The numbers in the poll to flat out trade him are really low but the way he has been disected pn the boards over the years you would half expect hundreds of votes to just trade him. Its not the case.

I voted sign for 1 year. I want that final look with some real wingers that are as talented before committing.

 

[MJ65]

Not arguing or trying to spark anything.. But if he is that much better than his linemates why isn't he out producing one of them in Komarov?

Komarov has been stellar this year and is much more responsible in defense (not saying Kadri is a liability but just not on Komarocs level) we all agree with that.

But Komarov is out producing him... If Kadri was being held back by his linemates he should be out producing them before anyone can make that claim.

I already have answered this question to you in another thread and you chose not to response - that's my opinion and you have the right to disagree, end of this conversation, as I really do not want the moderators to close this thread

Evander this season is at 25 points in 49 games, and is still considered to be a top 6 player despite his off ice issues, he was 4th OA in the same draft where Kadri was drafted at # 7, is he a better player then Komorov - off course he is

How better Kane is then Kadri? - that's very debatable

Leo Komorov is 29 years old and is a 3rd liner at best, Kadri is only 25 - so I rest my case

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I hope you're not trying to say what it sounds like.

No he is not say "try spinning what i said". So don't even go there. I see your purpose in this thread is to try twisting stuff.

It was on the highlights though.

 

[Scratch]

I can't think of a player in the Leafs uniform that I have ever wanted traded more than Nazem Kadri. I don't like the way he plays, I don't like his attitude, I think he is highly over-rated, a player who was drafted on the glaring oversight that he was a gifted offensive 1st rounder because his stats were stacked due to whom he played with at the time.
I want shipped out, I have wanted it for the last 5 yrs. We can get a decent return (possible late 1st rounder) and maybe a "C" prospect.
He should not be part of the rebuild.

 

[OvenMittz*]

I already have answered this question to you in another thread and you chose not to response - that's my opinion and you have the right to disagree, end of this conversation, as I really do not want the moderators to close this thread

Evander this season is at 25 points in 49 games, and is still considered to be a top 6 player despite his off ice issues, he was 4th OA in the same draft where Kadri was drafted at # 7, is he a better player then Komorov - off course he is

How better Kane is then Kadri? - that's very debatable

Leo Komorov is 29 years old and is a 3rd liner at best, Kadri is only 25 - so I rest my case

You literally made no rebuttal to it though.. Its not an argument I am having its a discussion, with a legitimate question to it.

And when I brought this up in another thread you did not "answer the question and I chose not to respond" I don't recall any of that.

What I'm asking is..

Shouldn't a player be out producing his linemates before its okay to claim that his linemates are holding him back??

That'd not a farfetched question to ask.. Its a legit question.

Is Kadri better than Komarov... I believe so.. But how much better? Im not sure... Is Komarov not qualified to play with Kadri and thus not worthy to be on his line?? Absolutely not..
Is he holding him back?
How?? When they both play shut down (Komarov with more experience playing that role) and he has more points playing the wing.


So that whole "Kadri has no decent players to play with" is... Soooo last year. IMO.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Kadri is getting traded. I keep telling everyone that but his supporters don't want to listen. It's going to happen before the deadline or at the draft. But it's happening. He's too immature, both on and off the ice.

I believe it. The Leaf pump that has been going on feels like they are trying to up his value. You don't up a players value so they can sign a better contract right? You pump it to move him.

 

[Snow Dog]

No he is not say "try spinning what i said". So don't even go there. I see your purpose in this thread is to try twisting stuff.

It was on the highlights though.

My purpose in this thread is to give my opinion on a player that may or may not be one that is moving forward with this team.I don't think he is a player we should be moving forward with and I have explained my reasons numerous times.if I have to keep repeating myself,so be it.

 

[tokyoite]

don't trade him

 

[TMLegend]

Signing Kardi long-term at 5.5M(Or more) reeks of a mistake waiting to happen. I'd rather trade if the only option is a 5.5M X 5. That's a bad contract for someone of Nazems production.

He's worth Bozak money realistically, 4.5M at most.

 

[MJ65]

You literally made no rebuttal to it though.. Its not an argument I am having its a discussion, with a legitimate question to it.

And when I brought this up in another thread you did not "answer the question and I chose not to respond" I don't recall any of that.

What I'm asking is..

Shouldn't a player be out producing his linemates before its okay to claim that his linemates are holding him back??

That'd not a farfetched question to ask.. Its a legit question.

Is Kadri better than Komarov... I believe so.. But how much better? Im not sure... Is Komarov not qualified to play with Kadri and thus not worthy to be on his line?? Absolutely not..
Is he holding him back?
How?? When they both play shut down (Komarov with more experience playing that role) and he has more points playing the wing.


So that whole "Kadri has no decent players to play with" is... Soooo last year. IMO.

As I have said so many times, Kadri is not an elite type, and despite the fact that I really love Komorov but he is not a 2nd line winger and was having a career year for his production (you can go and check his career numbers both in NHL and international), that he might not repeat again

At one point, he was on a pace for 65-70 points but he might not even get 50 points this season. If you can recall in a shortened season couple of years ago Kadri was almost point a game but he is not a point a game player and his ceiling is 60-65 points max and that's what you get from a 2nd line player

As far as Komorov is concerned, he would be a very important part of any team, because he can do many different things and contribute in so many different ways despits not producing like a top 6 forward

Kadri and Komorov are both very different players and are very important part of this organization

Under right circumstances, Kadri's production would be way better then what you see this season

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I can't think of a player in the Leafs uniform that I have ever wanted traded more than Nazem Kadri. I don't like the way he plays, I don't like his attitude, I think he is highly over-rated, a player who was drafted on the glaring oversight that he was a gifted offensive 1st rounder because his stats were stacked due to whom he played with at the time.
I want shipped out, I have wanted it for the last 5 yrs. We can get a decent return (possible late 1st rounder) and maybe a "C" prospect.
He should not be part of the rebuild.

Well thats honest enough. I wouldn't get into debating your opinion on him. Its been all debated before. I have a opinion like yours on Jvr. Its not popular but i just don't like him and see better value in trading him. I respect the honesty personally.

There is plenty of things positive to keeping both players we don't like. We will likely maintain our own opinion though.

 

[Snow Dog]

I believe it. The Leaf pump that has been going on feels like they are trying to up his value. You don't up a players value so they can sign a better contract right? You pump it to move him.

I thought it was to up his confidence.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

My purpose in this thread is to give my opinion on a player that may or may not be one that is moving forward with this team.I don't think he is a player we should be moving forward with and I have explained my reasons numerous times.if I have to keep repeating myself,so be it.

Ok then. Thats what the thread is for obviously with the trade option. Your preference noted.

Edit: forgot to ask. A 1 year deal for a longer look completely out of the question for you?

 

[HellasLEAF]

I thought it was to up his confidence.

Why can't both be true.

I'm not saying don't sign him. I'm saying i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is traded at the deadline or in the summer.

 

[teeder333*]

Here is what I "think". I think Kadri farted around for a few years and paid little attention to improving his craft, his skating etc...

I think he has bonded with Babcock to some extent, and Babcock might be able to get him to improve year after year.

But still, Kadri is a very bad skater, he has to get a head of steam on him, to get around you, because his legs are weak.

The book is out on Kadri, he cannot skate in close and get around a decent dman. So every defender in the NHL knows all you have to do is crowd him.

But guys get lazy and lax, and when they give him too much angle, well, Kadri will take it gratefully.

But he is nothing to get overly excited about, TILL he improves his skating.

Can you improve at age 25? Of course you can, but its a lot of work. Does he want to be a 70 point guy IF he is being spoiled at 5 million dollars a year?

I dunno, that is an awfully nice life for a guy. He might just settle into enjoying that 5 million and that is what scares Lou I would imagine, sure scares me.

As of right now, he cannot skate well enough to match his hand and stick skills, PERIOD.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Why can't both be true.

I'm not saying don't sign him. I'm saying i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he is traded at the deadline or in the summer.

You know what. No matter how much you hear the view thst tire pumping players for a trade you still have to wonder if it holds any water.

Phaneuf being complimented for his play wasn't a lie. He played a pretty compact game for us before the trade.

You could pump his tires until you are dizzy but if someone doesnt want him and the big contract you can't move him. Taking on that kind of contract is not because you believe everything the players teams management says about them.

There is a process and quite some amount of research and team consultation that comes into it. I doubt what the players G.M. says positive holds much weight in them consultation processes.

Just my 2 cents on that.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Here is what I "think". I think Kadri farted around for a few years and paid little attention to improving his craft, his skating etc...

I think he has bonded with Babcock to some extent, and Babcock might be able to get him to improve year after year.

But still, Kadri is a very bad skater, he has to get a head of steam on him, to get around you, because his legs are weak.

The book is out on Kadri, he cannot skate in close and get around a decent dman. So every defender in the NHL knows all you have to do is crowd him.

But guys get lazy and lax, and when they give him too much angle, well, Kadri will take it gratefully.

But he is nothing to get overly excited about, TILL he improves his skating.

Can you improve at age 25? Of course you can, but its a lot of work. Does he want to be a 70 point guy IF he is being spoiled at 5 million dollars a year?

I dunno, that is an awfully nice life for a guy. He might just settle into enjoying that 5 million and that is what scares Lou I would imagine, sure scares me.

As of right now, he cannot skate well enough to match his hand and stick skills, PERIOD.

Thats true but i don't think i am as critical or concerned as to him improving his quickness. He improved slightly this year with some hard work and it takes time like you say.

A bridge deal allows observance of this and other things you might like to see progression for in his game. Rebuilds are a process of trying to get it righted. The cap management is very important and you have to be sure you are committing to the right athletes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I believe it was Macallan who had my favorite post on this subject and it went something like this (my apologies for any inaccuracies but I think I at least captured the spirit):

Kadri will not be traded by the deadline.
Kadri will be signed to a long-term deal in the off-season.
Fantasy worlds of some posters here will crumble into dust.

 

[MJ65]

I believe it was Macallan who had my favorite post on this subject and it went something like this (my apologies for any inaccuracies but I think I at least captured the spirit):

Kadri will not be traded by the deadline.
Kadri will be signed to a long-term deal in the off-season.
Fantasy worlds of some posters here will crumble into dust.

That's fantastic

 

[Bluelines]

I believe it was Macallan who had my favorite post on this subject and it went something like this (my apologies for any inaccuracies but I think I at least captured the spirit):

Kadri will not be traded by the deadline.
Kadri will be signed to a long-term deal in the off-season.
Fantasy worlds of some posters here will crumble into dust.

No offence intended but it reads like a middle school perspective on life, eh?

 

[Snow Dog]

Ok then. Thats what the thread is for obviously with the trade option. Your preference noted.

Edit: forgot to ask. A 1 year deal for a longer look completely out of the question for you?

It depends on if Stamkos winds up here.We'll need the cap space.If Bozak is gone I say keep him for now until the prospects are ready.1 or 2 years around 4.5 mill seems OK.

 

[Snow Dog]

I believe it was Macallan who had my favorite post on this subject and it went something like this (my apologies for any inaccuracies but I think I at least captured the spirit):

Kadri will not be traded by the deadline.
Kadri will be signed to a long-term deal in the off-season.
Fantasy worlds of some posters here will crumble into dust.

I can't wait.

 

[The Examiner]

No offence intended but it reads like a middle school perspective on life, eh?

So you are saying it's an accurate representation of the mindset of some people on this board.

 

[OvenMittz*]

As I have said so many times, Kadri is not an elite type, and despite the fact that I really love Komorov but he is not a 2nd line winger and was having a career year for his production (you can go and check his career numbers both in NHL and international), that he might not repeat again

At one point, he was on a pace for 65-70 points but he might not even get 50 points this season. If you can recall in a shortened season couple of years ago Kadri was almost point a game but he is not a point a game player and his ceiling is 60-65 points max and that's what you get from a 2nd line player

As far as Komorov is concerned, he would be a very important part of any team, because he can do many different things and contribute in so many different ways despits not producing like a top 6 forward

Kadri and Komorov are both very different players and are very important part of this organization

Under right circumstances, Kadri's production would be way better then what you see this season

You missed my point.

Your argument is "give Kadri decent linemates to play with"

I'm not talking about Komarov from last year or years in the future I'm talking about him this year (who mind you was producing hot even when Kadri was cold for the first 25gms) is producing at a higher rate than Kadri is.

Blaming it on the fact that "kadri doesn't have any decent linemates" gets voided if he can't out produce the linemates you claim are not on his level.

Therefore it is unfair to insinuate player A is being held down by player B.. When player B is putting up higher numbers than player A..

We are talking about this year... If the argument is Kadri needs better linemates to succeed then that work for all players.. But you can't claim his linemates are holding him back when 1 is out producing the other.


You can't just say... "I've been through this topic already.". And pretend you made any valid points.. Because you didn't.

When Kadri is actually beating out his linemates by a fair margin in production comeback to me with that argument.. Until then Komarov is a fine winger for Kadri.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

You literally made no rebuttal to it though.. Its not an argument I am having its a discussion, with a legitimate question to it.

And when I brought this up in another thread you did not "answer the question and I chose not to respond" I don't recall any of that.

What I'm asking is..

Shouldn't a player be out producing his linemates before its okay to claim that his linemates are holding him back??

That'd not a farfetched question to ask.. Its a legit question.

Is Kadri better than Komarov... I believe so.. But how much better? Im not sure... Is Komarov not qualified to play with Kadri and thus not worthy to be on his line?? Absolutely not..
Is he holding him back?
How?? When they both play shut down (Komarov with more experience playing that role) and he has more points playing the wing.

So that whole "Kadri has no decent players to play with" is... Soooo last year. IMO.

Two players have produced the same amount of primary points, in about the same number of games.

One (Komarov) is shooting at ~200% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending downward sharply.

The other (Kadri) is shooting at <50% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending upward.

Kadri is outproducing Grabner and Holland by a mile. Komarov is outproducing him slightly at this point, but has never show that ability in the past.

Uncle Leo is the best linemate that Kadri has had (outside of the short sting with JVR) for the past few years, but that really isn't saying much. Komarov is still in over his head in this role.