Nazem Kadri (Pre- Deadline).

[Wafflewhipper]

It depends on if Stamkos winds up here.We'll need the cap space.If Bozak is gone I say keep him for now until the prospects are ready.1 or 2 years around 4.5 mill seems OK.

Well thats reasonable. I think i misunderstood where you sat. Of course thats why i asked the question. I think he is a nice piece on a good team at a good cap efficiency. A good 2nd line center is 55,56,57 points consistently for my thinking. So we will say 55 points is acceptable. You agreeable with that with a good cap hit as you expressed?

Maybe not but i think 55 points is a valued #2 center by most.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Im almost 100% sure Kadri won't be dealt by the deadline.

But I'm 50/50 on the off season when they try to settle out a contract.

It makes more sense to wait till then.

 

[Snow Dog]

Well thats reasonable. I think i misunderstood where you sat. Of course thats why i asked the question. I think he is a nice piece on a good team at a good cap efficiency. A good 2nd line center is 55,56,57 points consistently for my thinking. So we will say 55 points is acceptable. You agreeable with that with a good cap hit as you expressed?

Maybe not but i think 55 points is a valued #2 center by most.

I don't see him hitting 55,maybe 50.With Kadri,I see him being our third line"C" in a couple of years and for the contract conditions the team will be looking at in order to sign him,he won't be worth the money.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Im almost 100% sure Kadri won't be dealt by the deadline.

But I'm 50/50 on the off season when they try to settle out a contract.

It makes more sense to wait till then.

Everything considered for rebuilding the probability of him sticking around still fully depends on evaluation. Moving him in the summer might sell the process short when simply qualifying him is possibly the proper course of action. Making big decisions with any doubts is counterproductive and dishonest to the process. Offering fair wage compensation for a longer look and communicating that truthfully to the player is always the best way. It builds good honest relationships in anything you do really.

A show me contract is how it is expressed often on our board. Setting expectations in a open process will always make a contract negotiations in the future easier.

I would hope there is restraint exercised all through the build with every player in the same manner.

Proper Cap management for my thinking is what whatwill lead the most to success after the draft.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I don't see him hitting 55,maybe 50.With Kadri,I see him being our third line"C" in a couple of years and for the contract conditions the team will be looking at in order to sign him,he won't be worth the money.

I have to feel that Stamkos has a factor in the whole Kadri thing.

There is no way we are going Stamkos-Kadri-Nylander-Bozak..... Someone has to go, and Kadri is the easiest. (Were not trading Nylander)

It's always been my thought.... Kadri out = Stamkos in..... Kadri in = Stamkos out. Of course Bozak could be moved, that is mostly a gut feeling I guess....

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't see him hitting 55,maybe 50.With Kadri,I see him being our third line"C" in a couple of years and for the contract conditions the team will be looking at in order to sign him,he won't be worth the money.

Ok then negligible difference in the points anyway. It does depend on the quality of wingers you can bring up on ELC's in the future as to what you can pay your centers.

That is a assumption of cap trouble by you i suppose. The cap has to be held in line. The quality of the system could nullify the need to keep money from your center position. Therefore the commonly viewed belief that centers are the only most important way to draft is inconclusive in acknowledging the after fact of having the center depth.

Winger depth is very important. I will give you he is a third line center to respect your future view. Having his quality of play being our 3rd line center if affordable, would it not be to your liking if the wingers being well stocked with quality were the one rendering our cap relief. Instead of at our center position??

The poasibility for that occurance in the future is looking like it could happen. We don't have a replacement for Kadri or a real need to move him presently i believe.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Two players have produced the same amount of primary points, in about the same number of games.

One (Komarov) is shooting at ~200% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending downward sharply.

The other (Kadri) is shooting at <50% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending upward.

Kadri is outproducing Grabner and Holland by a mile. Komarov is outproducing him slightly at this point, but has never show that ability in the past.

Uncle Leo is the best linemate that Kadri has had (outside of the short sting with JVR) for the past few years, but that really isn't saying much. Komarov is still in over his head in this role.

Nice summary. Kadri has never had quality linemates and he's done quite well with what he's had. This whole "but what about Komarov" argument is just ridiculous but that's the way it always has been with Kadri, some people are just desperate to tear the guy down no matter what.

The best argument for keeping Kadri (and also JVR) iIMO is that we really need some talented players for Nylander and Marner to play with. Hopefully this requires no elaboration.

 

[Snow Dog]

Ok then negligible difference in the points anyway. It does depend on the quality of wingers you can bring up on ELC's in the future as to what you can pay your centers.

That is a assumption of cap trouble by you i suppose. The cap has to be held in line. The quality of the system could nullify the need to keep money from your center position. Therefore the commonly viewed belief that centers are the only most important way to draft is inconclusive in acknowledging the after fact of having the center depth.

Winger depth is very important. I will give you he is a third line center to respect your future view. Having his quality of play being our 3rd line center if affordable, would it not be to your liking if the wingers being well stocked with quality were the one rendering our cap relief. Instead of at our center position??

The poasibility for that occurance in the future is looking like it could happen. We don't have a replacement for Kadri or a real need to move him presently i believe.

For sure we could compromise salary on other positions.I think paying your third line "C"$5 million has trouble written all over it.
If he is being paid that kind of money for said position I believe he would be hard to trade as well as setting a precedent as to the salary others would be using in their contract negotiations.

 

[Bluelines]

I have to feel that Stamkos has a factor in the whole Kadri thing.

There is no way we are going Stamkos-Kadri-Nylander-Bozak..... Someone has to go, and Kadri is the easiest. (Were not trading Nylander)

It's always been my thought.... Kadri out = Stamkos in..... Kadri in = Stamkos out. Of course Bozak could be moved, that is mostly a gut feeling I guess....

You could always move 2 of them to wing, its easier to go center to wing than it is to go wing to center. Then you'd have a winger who is really good at face offs and another who is no slouch at the dot, not a bad situation to be in.

I'd love to have Stammer but I think our goalie and defence is a more pressing issue.

 

[Menzinger]

I have to feel that Stamkos has a factor in the whole Kadri thing.

There is no way we are going Stamkos-Kadri-Nylander-Bozak..... Someone has to go, and Kadri is the easiest. (Were not trading Nylander)

It's always been my thought.... Kadri out = Stamkos in..... Kadri in = Stamkos out. Of course Bozak could be moved, that is mostly a gut feeling I guess....

A team with three top six centres is better than a team with only 2. You can just shift one to the wing.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

For sure we could compromise salary on other positions.I think paying your third line "C"$5 million has trouble written all over it.
If he is being paid that kind of money for said position I believe he would be hard to trade as well as setting a precedent as to the salary others would be using in their contract negotiations.

Thats assuming other teams would have the center depth you implied when rating him a third line center, as to the future negotiations of contracts.( i don't buy that by the way).To which you Haven't said who the 2 centers are that will be bumping him down. So who are you impling bumps him matters now??

 

[Snow Dog]

You could always move 2 of them to wing, its easier to go center to wing than it is to go wing to center. Then you'd have a winger who is really good at face offs and another who is no slouch at the dot, not a bad situation to be in.

I'd love to have Stammer but I think our goalie and defence is a more pressing issue.

I usually agree with all your posts,here it comes,but.This team does not have one player that is a closer.I don't know how many times these players get glorious scoring chances and can't bury the puck.We need a couple of guys that can put the puck in the net.If we had Stamkos,between him,Nylander,Marner,and this years pick we should be looking at a good start to a top scoring top six.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

A team with three top six centres is better than a team with only 2. You can just shift one to the wing.

You would have 3 any way..... I said one of Stamkos, Kadri, Nylander, Bozak would have to give.

You could move some to wing as other poster suggested.

 

[Bluelines]

I usually agree with all your posts,here it comes,but.This team does not have one player that is a closer.I don't know how many times these players get glorious scoring chances and can't bury the puck.We need a couple of guys that can put the puck in the net.If we had Stamkos,between him,Nylander,Marner,and this years pick we should be looking at a good start to a top scoring top six.

Agreed we don't have a closer but we do have some guys coming that in a few years might fit in nicely.

I read an article a few years back that talked about the proper way to rebuild, they said start with your goal and work your way out. Logically that makes sense because goalies take the longest to mature, followed by d men and then forwards. Your rebuild may not happen as structured as that, you might be 4 years into the rebuild and then come across a Price type goalie, you would obviously take him but I like the concept of players growing up together.

I'm not so concerned with the big club over the next 2 to 3 years as I am concerned with creating a winning environment (on the Marlies) for the prospects. IMO I don't feel Stammer is a priority. We all have our opinions, I respect that yours is different from mine.

 

[Snow Dog]

Thats assuming other teams would have the center depth you implied when rating him a third line center, as to the future negotiations of contracts.( i don't buy that by the way).To which you Haven't said who the 2 centers are that will be bumping him down. So who are you impling bumps him matters now??

Stamkos(hoping) and Nylander and perhaps this years pick would push him to third line,and this is assuming Bozak is gone.
As far as contracts are concerned.If Kadri is earning $5 million as a third line C I'm almost sure that would be used as a bargaining point when Nylander is looking to get paid.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Two players have produced the same amount of primary points, in about the same number of games.

One (Komarov) is shooting at ~200% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending downward sharply.

The other (Kadri) is shooting at <50% of his career average coming into this season, and is trending upward.

Kadri is outproducing Grabner and Holland by a mile. Komarov is outproducing him slightly at this point, but has never show that ability in the past.

Uncle Leo is the best linemate that Kadri has had (outside of the short sting with JVR) for the past few years, but that really isn't saying much. Komarov is still in over his head in this role.

... Again. This is Komarov hottest year, nobody's arguing that... But during Komarovs hottest year he is on Kadris wing (was still hot on his own when Kadri went cold for 25gms).. Komarov is playing better than a large amount of other wingers across the NHL this season (not last season and i dont carw about the season after this one, we are talking about this season) and was an all-star.. And he is Kadris linemate.

So again... kadri IS playing with a competent winger in Komarov.. He isn't playing with a nobody. Regardless of past numbers people want to bring up on Komarov he is playing great this year.

So again... If people are blaming his linemates in Komarov and insinuating he is being held back they are plain wrong..

Come up with a better argument and quit with the excuses for Kadri already..

When Kadri out produces Komarov by a fair margin come back to me with that argument.. Until then let Kadri be held accountable for himself.

Edit: and bringing up sh% is useless.. If he ends the season still ahead or close to Kadris production what does it matter what his s% is other than the fact that he showed he can sustain it for an entire season..?

 

[ConnorTO]

kadri is here for life **** off

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Stamkos(hoping) and Nylander and perhaps this years pick would push him to third line,and this is assuming Bozak is gone.
As far as contracts are concerned.If Kadri is earning $5 million as a third line C I'm almost sure that would be used as a bargaining point when Nylander is looking to get paid.

Stamkos coming could only be viewed as a investment into the very near future. The rebuild and cap flexability suffers but the rebuild advances slightly. Possibly even to early when development time projections go slower than expected in certain cases.

Signing Stamkos has cons but only in the short term because we won't immediately be contenders.

The evaluation of it being worth it to pay him $10,000,000 for for only making it to the playoffs as opposed to being contenders would be weighed very carefull we could reason.

If he wants to come to the leafs you do it and give him the "C" with a slight reluctance only to the fact you are walking away from a homegrown rebuild. So its not that serious a dilemma.

We still need to have a #1 defenseman and a #1 Goaltender added to the mix. Sparks should be given the chance to take it on a good team though.

Someone could easily make a case for not signing Stamkos for the betterment of a true rebuild. The more drafting early we can do over a period that is not stonewalled by a definite term the better off the future is too.

Its a tricky situation in terms of it being early in the rebuild for entertaining that cap hit this early.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

kadri is here for life **** off

Seriousy dude!

 

[William Hylander]

So we are trading a player because Stamkos might sign with us?
Unfortunately he won't sign here, we can offer him a max contract, but he will likely go to Rangers or another team that is successful and makes more money.

We have to wait and see before we give Kadri a big contract, he's an RFA so we can wait till after July 1. But it would be shortsighted to make roster space for a player which has yet to sign.

 

[Myke]

I vote option 3, multi year deal.

 

[OvenMittz*]

Nice summary. Kadri has never had quality linemates and he's done quite well with what he's had. This whole "but what about Komarov" argument is just ridiculous but that's the way it always has been with Kadri, some people are just desperate to tear the guy down no matter what.

The best argument for keeping Kadri (and also JVR) iIMO is that we really need some talented players for Nylander and Marner to play with. Hopefully this requires no elaboration.

It gets ridiculous because you have no rebuttal.

Kadri needs better linemates.. Okay ...how about he out produces them before we decide to look for better.

To me it just sounds as if kadri fans want someone to inflate his stats to help their arguments...

If he can't out produce his own wingers.. Why would anyone assume he is being held back by them?

 

[dimi78]

... Again. This is Komarov hottest year, nobody's arguing that... But during Komarovs hottest year he is on Kadris wing (was still hot on his own when Kadri went cold for 25gms).. Komarov is playing better than a large amount of other wingers across the NHL this season (not last season and i dont carw about the season after this one, we are talking about this season) and was an all-star.. And he is Kadris linemate.

So again... kadri IS playing with a competent winger in Komarov.. He isn't playing with a nobody. Regardless of past numbers people want to bring up on Komarov he is playing great this year.

So again... If people are blaming his linemates in Komarov and insinuating he is being held back they are plain wrong..

Come up with a better argument and quit with the excuses for Kadri already..

When Kadri out produces Komarov by a fair margin come back to me with that argument.. Until then let Kadri be held accountable for himself.

Edit: and bringing up sh% is useless.. If he ends the season still ahead or close to Kadris production what does it matter what his s% is other than the fact that he showed he can sustain it for an entire season..?

You do realize that the 25 games your saying he was cold was probably the best hockey he played all year? Those games early in the year where points weren't coming his way to spite his play is why he's not going anywhere. It didn't effect his game and even though points weren't coming game in and game out was not only one of the teams best players with how he played was one of the better players on the ice. To put in in perspective. Bozak put up some production during that time but still the story was how well Kadri played... That is why he got the praise he got because that's exactly the type of players winning teams are built on and what this organizations culture change is all about. That's what winning hockey players do. When your not producing you could still help your team... Point production isn't everything. This game isn't about individual production it's a team game. Winning teams pick each other up, pad each others stats where it's not a scenario where 1 guy is slumping your team can't score. Those types of scenarios is how you end up in a lottery position in a hurry. Which is exactly has happen this year BY DESIGN devoid of talent on purpose tanking.

It's so remarkably clear the whole year that from this forward group they went with to start the year ONLY Kadri & Komorov are the 2 worth keeping around. Everybody else isn't a fit for Babcock hockey. Including JVR for just that. When he's not producing he's slaking on the ice... Bozak is the same. Babcock even reference about it how Bozak at 29 has compete issues. The "A" and all of that is to keep him focused and bring it which he's done that this year to a better ratio than the past but still the lack of gumption in his game is why he will be moved. Placing the "A" on Bozak was an intended challenge not a reward as some type of great leader of his play.... That's for those who chimed about why no "A" for Kadri. The answer is real simple. He doesn't need it.

As for Komorov your 100% correct and frankly how he's viewed right now is embarrassing to Leaf Nation. We're suppose to be knowledgeable fans of this game but it's been vary apparent that it isn't in this case how we've allowed ourselves to view players when they were pigeonholed from the past regime and not see that this guy has got plenty of game.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

... Again. This is Komarov hottest year, nobody's arguing that... But during Komarovs hottest year he is on Kadris wing (was still hot on his own when Kadri went cold for 25gms).. Komarov is playing better than a large amount of other wingers across the NHL this season (not last season and i dont carw about the season after this one, we are talking about this season) and was an all-star.. And he is Kadris linemate.

So again... kadri IS playing with a competent winger in Komarov.. He isn't playing with a nobody. Regardless of past numbers people want to bring up on Komarov he is playing great this year.

So again... If people are blaming his linemates in Komarov and insinuating he is being held back they are plain wrong..

Come up with a better argument and quit with the excuses for Kadri already..

When Kadri out produces Komarov by a fair margin come back to me with that argument.. Until then let Kadri be held accountable for himself.

Edit: and bringing up sh% is useless.. If he ends the season still ahead or close to Kadris production what does it matter what his s% is other than the fact that he showed he can sustain it for an entire season..?

1st Bold: As has been stated many times, his linemates Komarov and Grabner are in over their heads against this level of competition. Even Kadri is. They're doing quite well despite that, but his linemates are absolutely holding him back. How do you think he'd be doing if he had Corey Perry on his wing instead of Grabner?

2nd Bold: Shooting % is extremely important. It is highly unlikely that Komarov will produce at this level next season. He'll regress. In fact, he's regressing now. The same will happen for Kadri, but that actually means his production will likely increase. You can claim it's useless, but it's been proven that it's not. It's very useful for identifying unsustainable patterns.

 

[Stand Witness]

Option 1: Long-term deal at a fair price (Likely option 1, could possibly switch 1 & 2).

Option 2: Trade

Option 3: 1 year deal

No interest in only bringing back Kadri for 1 more year. He will be a UFA IIRC.