Nazem Kadri, or Phil Kessel?

[X66]

Kessel has been an excellent playoff player, he's shown he can elevate his game in the playoffs.

It's just easier to do it with more support IMO and that's where Kane has him badly beat.

Kane isn't even one of the 2 most important players on his team, that tells you just how good the Hawks team is.

 

[Hotel Mario]

Easily keep Kadri he at least is willing to show up to battle in the trenches, and still has some upside.

Kessel shows the most lack of compete in the entire league, fat, lazy, introverted and has been the entirety of his tenure in Toronto. The offensive skill is off the charts but the character is terrible Leiweke was right.

 

[diceman934]

Kessel has been an excellent playoff player, he's shown he can elevate his game in the playoffs.

It's just easier to do it with more support IMO and that's where Kane has him badly beat.

Kane isn't even one of the 2 most important players on his team, that tells you just how good the Hawks team is.

What he is one of the two most important players on his team....or maybe he should give back his MVP of the playoffs trophy....you know the Conn Smythe trophy!

Kane is a better over all hockey player despite what many Leaf fans think.

 

[Gallagbi]

Ive heard this playoff stat nonsense. He has played in 22 games over his 8 year career. Most of his stats accumulated with a Boston team where he was also benched by the coach as a healthy scratch. He has averaged less than 3 playoff games per year in his NHL career. Hardly something to hang your hat on.

Also in the Olympics where he was this great player..he was shut down much like the rest of the Americans when the games got tough. I imagine thats it would go down come playoff time especially in the later rounds when the games get physical and tight. Kessel will be a ghost out there.

All of this was covered in the last thread, you know my opinion on it. Kessel was benched after his first playoff game then played well once he re-entered the lineup.

You say there's no evidence to support he can handle pressure situations. There is, you just choose to ignore it.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

I'd keep Kadri.

If we'd trade Kessel we'll have more capspace and a better return for him. Plus I don't like Kessels one-dimensional play, yes he's improved over the years but it still sucks.

 

[X66]

What he is one of the two most important players on his team....or maybe he should give back his MVP of the playoffs trophy....you know the Conn Smythe trophy!

Kane is a better over all hockey player despite what many Leaf fans think.

I'm not saying Kane is a bad player, he's an elite player.

But to think he's more important to the Hawks than Toews or Keith is ridiculous.

 

[Semantics]

What he is one of the two most important players on his team....or maybe he should give back his MVP of the playoffs trophy....you know the Conn Smythe trophy!

Kane is a better over all hockey player despite what many Leaf fans think.

Kane was critical to Chicago's victories, and a great player. Whether he's one of their top two players or not doesn't matter, it's lame to try to diminish a player's contributions just because there are a couple of other great players on the team.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Kane was critical to Chicago's victories, and a great player. Whether he's one of their top two players or not doesn't matter, it's lame to try to diminish a player's contributions just because there are a couple of other great players on the team.

OH yes...of course it is. A ridiculous argument because every Conn Smythe player played on a great team with other great players. Its how it goes which makes the feat actually more impressive. Its harder to be the best player on a stacked team than it is to be the best player on a mediocre bubble team. Of course it is.

Kanes' MVP should not be dismissed like its a team trophy. Thats BS.

 

[silentbob37*]

This team needs to be blown up and rebuilt, not "re-tooled" around Kessel.

Keep the younger, cheap player with more hockey a head of him and move the older guy who we clearly can't build a winner around who will net us more future in return.

 

[silentbob37*]

Kessel has been an excellent playoff player, he's shown he can elevate his game in the playoffs.

It's just easier to do it with more support IMO and that's where Kane has him badly beat.

Kane isn't even one of the 2 most important players on his team, that tells you just how good the Hawks team is.

He has also shown he can't/don't carry the load that a teams best player needs toc arry over an 82 game schedule.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

All of this was covered in the last thread, you know my opinion on it. Kessel was benched after his first playoff game then played well once he re-entered the lineup.

You say there's no evidence to support he can handle pressure situations. There is, you just choose to ignore it.

I think the jury is out on who chooses to ignore what...If you cannot see by Kessels play that he is not going to engage in physical contact to win the puck then you are choosing to ignore whats right in front of your face.

This is the softest hockey player I have ever witnessed. He simply does not get involved in physical play at all. He never goes and digs out the puck. He doesn't win any board battles. He shies away from contact. Period. He is the opposite of tough. I think you will find that Kane does do those things and tends to go into the dirty areas more making him a grittier player.

Ive watched enough playoff hockey to know..you absolutely have to be willing to take your lumps in order to be effective in the playoffs. It doesn't mean you have to go out and hit people but rather not mind taking hits and winning some strength battles. I don't see this in Kessels game and to expect him to show this side of his game come playoff time is somewhat fantasy.

 

[Gallagbi]

Kessel isn't a physical player, I have never suggested otherwise.

As to how that impacts him in the playoffs, well you're guessing and guessing against his past performance.

When you say things like

Kessel will not elevate his game when the going gets tough. No evidence to support that at all. None.

You're wrong. There is evidence, but you're ignoring it to support your belief that it won't continue.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Kessel isn't a physical player, I have never suggested otherwise.

As to how that impacts him in the playoffs, well you're guessing and guessing against his past performance.

Well really its his lack of physicality that makes me skeptical that he will be an effective playoff performer. I don't see it. Not to say that he can't find some success based on his skill alone. But he pretty much gets by on his skil. There isn't much more to his game than that.

I think to be a great playoff performer he would need to find another gear. His 7 game stint against Boston is simply not enough for me to say.."yeah, this guy is someone you can ride in the playoffs." (IE Conn Smythe type of talent)

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Kessel isn't a physical player, I have never suggested otherwise.

As to how that impacts him in the playoffs, well you're guessing and guessing against his past performance.

When you say things like
You're wrong. There is evidence, but you're ignoring it to support your belief that it won't continue.

Of course there is evidence. I think you choose to ignore it. He was not there last year down the stretch when the Leafs needed to be simply a .500 team in their last 20 games. Kessel produced at a much lower rate than his average PPG. It would seem to me if he is this "go to guy" that you try and portray him to be, he would play to at the very least, a ppg when the team needs him most. He fell off the map.

 

[TeamBester]

Im still here telling you Kessel is not in the same tier as Kane. Sorry. Kessel will not elevate his game when the going gets tough. No evidence to support that at all. None.

Quite a bit larger sample size than your 1 game you just used.

 

[Gallagbi]

Well really its his lack of physicality that makes me skeptical that he will be an effective playoff performer. I don't see it. Not to say that he can't find some success based on his skill alone. But he pretty much gets by on his skil. There isn't much more to his game than that.

I think to be a great playoff performer he would need to find another gear. His 7 game stint against Boston is simply not enough for me to say.."yeah, this guy is someone you can ride in the playoffs." (IE Conn Smythe type of talent)

I just edited my post as you responded.

I can buy an argument that you don't believe he will be a good playoff performer moving forward. I don't agree, but I know that's your opinion and understand your reasoning.

I can't buy the notion that he has always flopped in the playoffs. That's a stretch to try and support your point.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that during the playoffs Kessel will be somewhere between the Conn Smythe winner and completely invisible and unable to compete, but don't let that get in the way of this ridiculous discussion.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Quite a bit larger sample size than your 1 game you just used.

Im using Kessel's entire career vs. Kanes entire career. Thats not one game. Maybe its a personal preference...but I would take a Conn Smythe winner over Kessel every day. Any Conn Smythe winner. Because it takes a special player to win that trophy. Its a personal opinion...but its the trophy that means more than any other piece of individual hardware one can win, IMO.

You may disagree. But regular season stats mean jack. Just ask all the President Trophy winners who were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I just edited my post as you responded.

I can buy an argument that you don't believe he will be a good playoff performer moving forward. I don't agree, but I know that's your opinion and understand your reasoning.

I can't buy the notion that he has always flopped in the playoffs. That's a stretch to try and support your point.

I dont think he would "flop" in the playoffs unless he simply mailed it in. He gets by on his skill (which is phenomenal)...but his work ethic and his lack of physical play cannot be discounted. These would impact his overall playoff sustainability.

Would he really be the best player in a 4 series grind where players are playing with freaking broken bones? Cmon....Kessel is soft as soft gets.

 

[TeamBester]

Im using Kessel's entire career vs. Kanes entire career. Thats not one game. Maybe its a personal preference...but I would take a Conn Smythe winner over Kessel every day. Any Conn Smythe winner. Because it takes a special player to win that trophy. Its a personal opinion...but its the trophy that means more than any other piece of individual hardware one can win, IMO.

You may disagree. But regular season stats mean jack. Just ask all the President Trophy winners who were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.

It's just really silly to suggest Kessel wouldn't look incredible beside Toews. Think about it for one minute, just how silly does that sound?

 

[Gallagbi]

Of course there is evidence. I think you choose to ignore it. He was not there last year down the stretch when the Leafs needed to be simply a .500 team in their last 20 games. Kessel produced at a much lower rate than his average PPG. It would seem to me if he is this "go to guy" that you try and portray him to be, he would play to at the very least, a ppg when the team needs him most. He fell off the map.

I think you should go back and read the last thread where this came up.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

It's just really silly to suggest Kessel wouldn't look incredible beside Toews. Think about it for one minute, just how silly does that sound?

Kane doesnt play with Toews. He plays with Sharp and Versteeg. Toews plays with Hossa and Saad.

Hey didnt Kessel play with Versteeg in Toronto???

 

[TeamBester]

Kane doesnt play with Toews. He plays with Sharp and Versteeg. Toews plays with Hossa and Saad.

Hey didnt Kessel play with Versteeg in Toronto???

Seriously? Really, this is going to be you arguement?

Hossa Toews Saad
Versteeg Sharp Kessel

OHHHHH THE HORROR!!!!!


Really???

Isn't there a site where you can get how much toi each player plays with who? I'd love to see proof Kane never plays with Toews throughout his career.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Seriously? Really, this is going to be you arguement?

Hossa Toews Saad
Versteeg Sharp Kessel

OHHHHH THE HORROR!!!!!


Really???

Isn't there a site where you can get how much toi each player plays with who? I'd love to see proof Kane never plays with Toews throughout his career.

I dont have to argue with you. Its pointless. You guys love your Kessel. Whatever. I don't think he is all that. He scores as much as Mats Sundin did and Doug Gilmour too. So What?


You would actually take Kessel over one of those two guys? Unbearable.

 

[TeamBester]

I dont have to argue with you. Its pointless. You guys love your Kessel. Whatever. I don't think he is all that. He scores as much as Mats Sundin did and Doug Gilmour too. So What?


You would actually take Kessel over one of those two guys? Unbearable.

No, that's why I have him at #3 in the last 25 years, but hey lets trade him for some depth players.

I say go out and get him a good number two way #1 center to play with, just like I said we need an elite winger for Mats. I think we have the depth to make a trade for one, and it starts with JVR. (another not so good soft as butter winger)