Nazem Kadri Discussion - MOD WARNING IN THE OP

[johnny_rudeboy]

Once again no concrete evidence of these supposed of these character issues.



As Pete Deboer said "you can win with players like Kadri"
Didnt think that one through did you now

Did he really say "can"? That is not really a ringing endorsement. I guess he said "you win with players like Kadri".

 

[mikebel111*]

Did he really say "can"? That is not really a ringing endorsement. I guess he said "you win with players like Kadri".

Are we really going to dig that deep into the words?

He did say win and Kadri in the same sentence. Good enough for me.

 

[mikebel111*]

Never mind I messed up the quote. Its actually

This is a kid you win championships with,†DeBoer proclaimed

 

[Banic]

After the Phaneuf trade it should be evident that endorsements from the coach/management don't mean ****. They are as likely to be attempting to boost trade value as much as they are trying to boost player morale. What a players coach says to the media (especially now in Toronto when they are so selective) is completely irrelevant. There has been substantial evidence for the past several years of character issues - look no further than his team suspension by THIS management team. Let's stop posting every single pro Kadri comment.

The Leafs are currently tied for last place - name me a single regular every game player that Babcock or 1 of the management team has said something negative about. You can't. Because they aren't in the business of doing so. What they say to the media isn't always exactly an accurate reflection.

 

[Wendelstache]

Been impressed with Kadri all season, hope we sign him for another 4/5years at a reasonable hit but these praises from management worries me (kiss of death).

Could Kypreos know something we don't?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

MOD

I know Bill Waters is a special kind of crazy and vindictive to top it off...but he had a good point yesterday in saying that if he were Kadri..he would be very worried right now. I have to say I agree with Waters on that point about Kadri.

Steve Simmons also said in the paper a week or so ago that he heard the "suspect" players like DP, Kadri and Lupul (among others) were going to be "coached up or talked up" ...seems pretty accurate to me so far when it comes to Dion and his fate...could Kadri be far behind out the door??

 

[Gary Nylund]

Been impressed with Kadri all season, hope we sign him for another 4/5years at a reasonable hit but these praises from management worries me (kiss of death).

Could Kypreos know something we don't?

Over the years, many players get praised, almost always they deserve it and most of them don't get traded. I've noticed Phaneuf, Kadri, Komarov and Rielly being singled out for praise this season, does that mean they are all being shopped?

It was obvious to me that Phaneuf was someone they would like to move if a reasonable deal came along. The same goes for Lupul (though good luck finding a taker). With Kadri, the opposite is true. What is said in the media about them doesn't change that.

Reimer's another case, early in the season, Babcock was critical of him and with good reason. Later, he's been praising him, again with good reason. Are we to think that when he was playing poorly, they wanted to keep him around for the long haul and thus it was OK to criticize but then when he started playing great, they decided they wanted to get rid of him so it was time to pump his tires?

Way too much overthink going on here.

 

[cookie]

This is the same Group who pumped up Dion to seem like he was a Godsend this year....and guess what happened to him? Pump and Dump!!

I know Bill Waters is a special kind of crazy and vindictive to top it off...but he had a good point yesterday in saying that if he were Kadri..he would be very worried right now. I have to say I agree with Waters on that point about Kadri.

Steve Simmons also said in the paper a week or so ago that he heard the "suspect" players like DP, Kadri and Lupul (among others) were going to be "coached up or talked up" ...seems pretty accurate to me so far when it comes to Dion and his fate...could Kadri be far behind out the door??

In Simmons' article, I'd suspect that he's basically relaying what every media source is saying about the Leafs. It's not exactly a secret that they want to acquire futures. However when it comes to insider information, the only guy I'd put an iota of trust in regarding Leafs' information is Bobby Mac. The Sportsnet crew is only regurgitating talking points in different flavours because the Leafs management is not passing any information out their doors.

On this team, any player can be traded (except for Rielly). Phaneuf and Lupul are different in that they are noticeably depreciating and are signed for long terms. The Phaneuf trade was a coup for the team in that they found a partner willing to bare with the cap implications for the upcoming half decade. Lupul will also be a hard sell as he's looked to be a shell of his former self. Neither player on the upswing. Naz is unlike them as he's cementing his ability to shutdown top opposing threats this year while upping the value of whomever he's put between. Unlike them, he's in demand.

 

[ULF_55]

Never mind I messed up the quote. Its actually

This is a kid you win championships with,†DeBoer proclaimed

So what championship did DeBoer win with Kadri?

Not everything a coach says is true.

 

[tml19]

I know Bill Waters is a special kind of crazy and vindictive to top it off...but he had a good point yesterday in saying that if he were Kadri..he would be very worried right now. I have to say I agree with Waters on that point about Kadri.

Steve Simmons also said in the paper a week or so ago that he heard the "suspect" players like DP, Kadri and Lupul (among others) were going to be "coached up or talked up" ...seems pretty accurate to me so far when it comes to Dion and his fate...could Kadri be far behind out the door??

He would be put in offensive situations if he was getting shopped

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He would be put in offensive situations if he was getting shopped

Playing #1C minutes is not putting him in that situation ?? I dunno...seems to me that the praise on Kadri and Dion was a little over the top this year. They kept gushing about Dion and look what happened.

Kadri was being praised because he went up against the best of other teams and shut them down...ok...fair enough...but a 3C or 4C could do that for you. It's going up against the best and OUTSCORING them that makes a 1C in my book. Just making it 0-0 is not the point of a 1C is it??

 

[Gallagbi]

So what championship did DeBoer win with Kadri?

Not everything a coach says is true.

OHL Championship.

 

[MJ65]

Playing #1C minutes is not putting him in that situation ?? I dunno...seems to me that the praise on Kadri and Dion was a little over the top this year. They kept gushing about Dion and look what happened.

Kadri was being praised because he went up against the best of other teams and shut them down...ok...fair enough...but a 3C or 4C could do that for you. It's going up against the best and OUTSCORING them that makes a 1C in my book. Just making it 0-0 is not the point of a 1C is it??

In order to out score the opponents you need the 1st line wingers, Kadri is not going to outscore the opponent line by himself

 

[OvenMittz*]

In order to out score the opponents you need the 1st line wingers, Kadri is not going to outscore the opponent line by himself

I thought he was making everybody he plays better?

So now when his linemates slow down and Kadri cools off its on his linemates?

And when Komarov is hot its because "Kadri has proven to make everybody he plays with better"?

I'm sorry I'm all for fairness but when is it okay to hold Kadri accountable for his own stats/production/play?

 

[MJ65]

I thought he was making everybody he plays better?

So now when his linemates slow down and Kadri cools off its on his linemates?

And when Komarov is hot its because "Kadri has proven to make everybody he plays with better"?

I'm sorry I'm all for fairness but when is it okay to hold Kadri accountable for his own stats/production/play?

When he is playing with real 1st line or 2nd line wingers - period

The fact is, he is the most visible forward on this roster

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I thought he was making everybody he plays better?

So now when his linemates slow down and Kadri cools off its on his linemates?

And when Komarov is hot its because "Kadri has proven to make everybody he plays with better"?

I'm sorry I'm all for fairness but when is it okay to hold Kadri accountable for his own stats/production/play?

Touche my friend...Touche.

 

[mikebel111*]

I thought he was making everybody he plays better?

So now when his linemates slow down and Kadri cools off its on his linemates?

And when Komarov is hot its because "Kadri has proven to make everybody he plays with better"?

I'm sorry I'm all for fairness but when is it okay to hold Kadri accountable for his own stats/production/play?

Like maybe right now? I think he is still playing well but not as well and his production has slipped a bit.
However that entire line is still creating, they should go in soon.
are you saying he isn't? How about Grabner getting hot when Kadri was put with him?

 

[Gallagbi]

There is an obvious difference between making linemates better and making them better than other teams top line players.

The Leafs don't have a legitimate first line, that's obvious. Simply keeping pace exceed expectations most nights (that goes for anyone on this team, not just Kadri).

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Never mind I messed up the quote. Its actually

This is a kid you win championships with,†DeBoer proclaimed

Yeah, that sounds better.

 

[mikebel111*]

When he is playing with real 1st line or 2nd line wingers - period

The fact is, he is the most visible forward on this roster

The guy has produced with 3rd liners his entire career.
There is a reason why Babcock keeps that line together, as thats the only line at the moment which can generate any type of offense.


OvenMitts: your correct. Even though I thought he was playing well during his slump, he was suffering cause at times he was taking long range shots. He has stopped doing that a bit and look production increase. He deserved some blame there for sure.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Naz is an embarrassment, it was a clean hit and he acted like a baby. Worst of all is Giordano layed him out again when Naz tried to get back at him...what a clown.

 

[OvenMittz*]

When he is playing with real 1st line or 2nd line wingers - period

The fact is, he is the most visible forward on this roster

So Komarov.. A 3c winger, out producing Kadri (not saying he's better than Kadri but out producing him) is dragging Kadri down? I don't want to nitpick and change what you are trying to say but that's the vibe I'm getting from you, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just confused at how Komarov playing in the same shutdown role and is considered a 3c is out producing a player who should not be held accountable unless he plays with 1st/2nd Liners.

How about maybe... We start holding players accountable for their own play? Sure a player can do better with better linemates but then what does that say about that so called player.

People where saying the same about Kessel when he played with Bozak... How Kessel will be so much better without Bozak riding the coat tails..

...Now Kessel played with the best Center in the league and where is he now? 2nd line playing with Malkin (still a 1c) and how far apart are Bozak and Kessels numbers now? With Bozak playing with 3c wingers?
Separated by 3 points. Just an example at how much weight these poor excuses really hold.

Fact of the matter is players should be held accountable for there play.

 

[TMLegend]

Naz is an embarrassment, it was a clean hit and he acted like a baby. Worst of all is Giordano layed him out again when Naz tried to get back at him...what a clown.

It was a little embarrassing. Even more so because he caught on camera doing his throat cut and pointing to Giordano sayinh "you're ****ing dead" and did.... absolutely nothing.

 

[dirk41]

Kadri's top linemates this season are JVR and Komarov. And guess which players have more points? JVR and Komarov. JVR has played 12 fewer games. If Kadri drives the production, why do they have more points?

Let's look Kadri's CF with and without Komarov
With Komarov: 52.7%, without 51%

Let's look Komarov's CF with and without Kadri
With Kadri it is: 52.7%, without 58.5%

So when Komarov is not on the ice, Kadri plays slightly worse. When Kadri isn't on the ice, Komarovactually gets better!

But, no, it's Kadri making Komarov. OK. . .


P.A. Parenteau, who plays fewer minutes, only has two fewer points than Kadri. TWO!!!! Parenteau's second most common linemate is Shawn Mattias.

The excuses are amazing.

 

[OvenMittz*]

The guy has produced with 3rd liners his entire career.
There is a reason why Babcock keeps that line together, as thats the only line at the moment which can generate any type of offense.


OvenMitts: your correct. Even though I thought he was playing well during his slump, he was suffering cause at times he was taking long range shots. He has stopped doing that a bit and look production increase. He deserved some blame there for sure.

I'm fine with Kadris play at the moment. I like his nastiness and drive.. He's making better choices.

I don't buy that his linemates are to blame whenever he dragging himdown, nor do I buy that Komarov is propping up Kadri when he's playing well (as I did to start.. Kadri went on a well deserved hot streak).

But the excuses when people are faced with difficult questions are just annoying and hold no weight to me. I get annoyed by the attachment of a player that these people never want to hold accountable when things go wrong.