Myers or Hutton, This Year

[PuckMunchkin]

sorry to hear your googles is broken. here's a snippet of what you could find if you made an effort.


“Ronnie saw him early and was a loud voice for him right from the start — even before any of us had seen him,” recalled Canucks general manager Jim Benning. “He was in my office and said ‘we’ve really got to watch this guy.’ He loved his skill and hockey sense.

Id rather not do your work for you.

What you posted doesnt sound like much to me.

But yeah... Maybe Ron has made a full 180 as far as his scouting profile goes. Could be I guess.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

No argument from me there. Benning and his Pro Scouting team have had a lot of misses during his time here. I can admit these things, and am still confused as to why you think I am more biased than most others on here. Granted, I am a little biased. When something negative looks like will happen, I like to give something a lot of time before passing final judgement on it (Eriksson signing). Conversely, I’m quick to give praise when something good looks like it will occur (ie Hoglander selection). I’m biased because I’m a Canucks fan.

Contrast this to many Benning haters that will give Benning almost nothing. You call me unflinching in my praise to Benning, but what about the dozens upon dozens of Benning haters on here that are unflinching in their praise of the Gillis regime without admitting any fault of his of any kind (not talking about you by the way - you can admit **** about Gillis and I can respect that).

And I'll admit when Jim does good stuff: Horvat contract, Benn signing, Judd Brackett promotion.

I also (not nearly as much) try to call out some of the biased posters when they hate on the management when its not called for (just IMO).

I honestly dont want to hold on to a lie. I rather have my views challenged and be changed and be closer to the truth.
Obviously I fail at that at times... Get frustrated / tired etc. and just blow people off when I shouldnt.

 

[TruGr1t]

Absolutely Myers is better on the PP. No argument there. However, on a team where he'll probably be the 3rd PP option after Hughes and Edler, that really isn't that important when it comes to this comparison.

I would be disappointed if this happens. Myers received limited PP opportunity with the Jets and still generated pretty good offensive output.

He should probably be the 2nd option in offensive situations after Hughes. I don't think it's out of the realm that Myers is a 40+ point guy next year with the right usage.

He should clearly be getting sheltered defensive minutes and favorable starts. Just like Hughes. That's why I think they'll be paired.

I would not put it past the Canucks at all, though, to pay all that money for Myers and deploy him incorrectly.

 

[MS]

Not most games no. I live in China and so most of the games that I watch are the condensed versions on You tube.

So what is your stance on Biega exactly? He’s criminally underrated and should be a #5 defenseman in this league? If he’s even half as good as you think he is, then why hasn’t a “smart” GM like Yzerman or Sakic tried to trade for him yet?

So, you do realize how you're sending a bit of a mixed message when you admit the bolded above just after posting this a few minutes earlier, right?

Asking me to show you “proof” that Tyler Myers is a better hockey player than Alex Biega would be like asking me to show you “proof” that Natalie Portman is a better looking woman than Rosie O’Donnell. Just use your eyes!! That’s your proof!

My take on Biega is that he's a very solid ~18 minute #5 defender in this league who should be playing for this team every night, and a great partner for younger defenders who has thrived in that role. It's been incredibly unfair that guys he's consistently outplayed like Sbisa and Gudbranson have been roster-automatics for the past few years while Biega is in the press box and hurt the team. Would compare him to Mike Weaver who had a very nice career - including playing top-4 minutes for a few years - once people finally got over his size, although Biega is better offensively and Weaver better defensively.

Also it was reported that there were multiple offers for him at the 2018 deadline but the team didn't want to move him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I would be disappointed if this happens. Myers received limited PP opportunity with the Jets and still generated pretty good offensive output.

He should probably be the 2nd option in offensive situations after Hughes. I don't think it's out of the realm that Myers is a 40+ point guy next year with the right usage.

He should clearly be getting sheltered defensive minutes and favorable starts. Just like Hughes. That's why I think they'll be paired.

I would not put it past the Canucks at all, though, to pay all that money for Myers and deploy him incorrectly.

The Jets powerplay was horrible when Buff was off it and Myers / Trouba were on it.

 

[MS]

Seriously. Can you post without the need to personally attack someone?

"Jesus christ. I thought you were a better poster than this" and the above quote on this page alone.

How do you expect to have a conversation with people if you start every reply with an insult. Is this how you communicate in real life? I certainly doubt it.

For all the heat Hindustan takes I have seen him concede several times. Hold his own against the team tank barrage. And never feel the need to attack anyone on a personal level. Not saying he hasn't. I just have not witnessed it.

I treat respect with respect and vice versa. I've had many positive interactions with both posters, but when they choose to mock my arguments while at the same time refusing to engage with them or present any counter arguments, then they're going to get the same scorn back. I didn't initiate the attitude in either of those interactions.

 

[Addison Rae]

Seriously. Can you post without the need to personally attack someone?

"Jesus christ. I thought you were a better poster than this" and the above quote on this page alone.

How do you expect to have a conversation with people if you start every reply with an insult. Is this how you communicate in real life? I certainly doubt it.

For all the heat Hindustan takes I have seen him concede several times. Hold his own against the team tank barrage. And never feel the need to attack anyone on a personal level. Not saying he hasn't. I just have not witnessed it.

Hindu is a good guy, I respect him as a person and a poster.

I don’t think he’s going to take any offense to that, at all. He literally admitted he doesn’t watch as many games as he would like as he lives in a different time zone.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Okay... I think I might have to change my mind of Myers vs Hutton for next year:

Myers does get turnstiled a whole lot tho... So you really shouldnt pair him with Hughes.

 

[MS]

Hindu is a good guy, I respect him as a person and a poster.

I don’t think he’s going to take any offense to that, at all. He literally admitted he doesn’t watch as many games as he would like as he lives in a different time zone.

I have no issues with him other than being told to 'Just watch the games!' by someone who isn't actually watching the games themselves.

It's weird because I think he's actually a really interesting poster capable of being an outside-the-box thinker and promoting quality discussion, but because he's not watching the games he's regurgitating these incredibly inside-the-box popular opinion takes on players from experts who don't know what they're talking about.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Jesus Christ. You're a better poster than this.

Nobody called these guys All-Stars.

The argument here is pretty damned simple, and I can't believe anyone is actually disagreeing with it:

Cheap homegrown depth is invaluable, and when <$1 million guys show they can solidly hold down roster spots at the bottom end of your roster, that's a huge boon for the team. To flush out these guys and then replace them with other fungible bottom-roster players for $millions more is absolutely idiotic, even if they're a marginal upgrade (and in our case, they weren't).

A bunch of us sat here last summer and said that replacing Gaunce/Archibald/Dowd types with Beagle/Schaller types for $5 million more would not be a substantial improvement, and that those stupid contracts would prevent us from acquiring better players in future offseasons. And then - shockingly - they weren't a substantial improvement, and their cost prevented us from signing an actual good player in Nyquist. *EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID WOULD HAPPEN*

To sit here and say 'NYA NYA WHERE IS ALL-STAR GAUNCE NOW?' and not understand this argument at all and how we screwed ourselves over indicates just an incredible, embarrassing lack of critical thinking.

Like, San Jose could most definitely have spent $2-3 million last summer signing a bottom-6 guy who was a bit better than cheap, home-grown Barclay Goodrow. But then they wouldn't have Evander Kane or Erik Karlsson.

And how did Benning's team of All-Stars in Gudbranson, Pouliot, Schaller, Gagner, Leipsic, and Beagle turn out?

the issue is that you overrate certain guys and have unrealistic expectations about their market value and abilities. there are 31 teams in the league. they all have professional analytics staff and experienced pro scouts and they all want to win and they are all ok with taking chances to do it, and yet they all keep passing on guys you think are awesome except at bargain basement prices. when these guys do play they seem to fail to catch on with other coaches and other fanbases. so when the debate is constantly "the entire nhl braintrust" vs. ms, forgive me if i go with that particular appeal to authority as validating my own opinion that you are wildly overrating these guys.

hutton is a guy who just passed through day one of ufa on the shelf. that's a judgment by 31 teams that either his price is too high, or there are better options. given his age, that is a pretty damning indictment either of his negotiating strategy or his abilities or both. either way, it validates what the canucks just did in not qualifying the guy and then in choosing to sign a different dman on a friendly much cheaper contract. i wish the guy well, and i still think he has upside, but even before you get to the question of fit with the team now, and his relationship with the coach, hutton has simply failed to demonstrate he is more than a replacement level depth dman so far, and i don't blame the canucks for not giving him another chance. it may backfire and he may make good. i hope he does. but it's a reasonable hockey decision to let him go.

also, gaunce may yet make it and i hope he does. the bruins is a great place for him to do it, as they are experts at plugging bodies like gaunce into their system and spitting out nhl players. i agree to a point that gaunce is not done yet as an nhl prospect, and i think another team and another system is what he needs. i hope it works for him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Okay... I think I might have to change my mind of Myers vs Hutton for next year:

Myers does get turnstiled a whole lot tho... So you really shouldnt pair him with Hughes.

i am pretty sure they signed him to play with hughes. they want his offence and transition to compliment hughes. i think they figure he can figure out a way for him to support hughes defensively knowing that will be a weakness for both.

it might end up though that they are just a power play pairing though. he did not pair up with morrissey in the peg.

 

[Horse McHindu]

In all honesty, I never try and “win” debates on here. I honestly just want to see where others are coming from with their viewpoints. For the life of me, I just don’t understand why there is such an extreme and over-the-top bias against the Benning regime, and such an unflinching praise of Mike Gillis. Both GM’s have and had some significant strengths while being dangerously weak in one major area. Mystifyingly, Benning gets tons of heat and almost zero praise by many (when it’s warranted), while Gillis is seen like a god on here by many. Hence - I think the underlying motivation behind the creation of this thread. Hutton (a Gillis guy) is better than Myers (a Benning guy).

 

[MS]

Okay... I think I might have to change my mind of Myers vs Hutton for next year:

Myers does get turnstiled a whole lot tho... So you really shouldnt pair him with Hughes.

I would absolutely love to see one of these for Hutton with the whole Gudbranson disaster minutes removed. He was literally a completely different player with/without that anchor around his neck, and he played with him *a lot* over the past 3 years.

Conversely, Myers did also play with Kulikov a lot who sucks himself, although not as bad as Gudbranson.

 

[MS]

Lol, thanks.

In all honesty, I never try and “win” debates on here. I honestly just want to see where others are coming from with their viewpoints. For the life of me, I just don’t understand why there is such an extreme and over-the-top bias against the Benning regime, and such an unflinching praise of Mike Gillis. Both GM’s have and had some significant strengths while being dangerously weak in one major area. Mystifyingly, Benning gets tons of heat and almost zero praise by many (when it’s warranted), while Gillis is seen like a god on here by many. Hence - I think the underlying motivation behind the creation of this thread. Hutton (a Gillis guy) is better than Myers (a Benning guy).

I don't think Gillis was a God, and at the time was perfectly OK with him being fired.

Gillis was a quality GM who was a leader who provided direction and a plan, and the organization displayed quality contract and trade negotiations with him at the helm, as well as generally positive pro scouting. His one failure - which he's admitted - was believing that his scouting staff was failing due to poor direction rather than incompetence and waiting too long to make changes there.

Benning does none of that. He's a waffling buffoon with no plan, no ability to manage a salary cap, and no ability to pro scout or identify talent to bring into the organization to build a roster. His only 'positive' trait is that he's been so bad at his job that the league has rewarded his consistent failure with high draft picks which have predictably turned into good young players.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

I see Myers as an upgrade on Pouliot more than Hutton. I feel that's a good upgrade. I'm not all untogether pessimistic about this. The Canucks desperately needed to get NHL bodies on their blueline and grabbing a 6'8 hometown offensive defenseman who is capable of 30 points a season isn't bad. I have visions of Myers becoming Gudbranson'd and useless here but this team desperately needed 20 minute a night defensemen and Myers was one of the best available without giving up assets.

With that said, it's almost a guarantee he'll be played out of his role and exposed but I'm going to choose to look at the bright side.

 

[DL44]

Obvious answer is Myers.

Hutton has a ways to go still to gain the consistency required.
At his best last season, he was adequate and reliable defensively.. but only for half his season.
A step up for Hutton would be to play a full season of his best level of hockey.
Then his next step up after that would be to improve on what that level is.

His shot is just not weapon. Too many powder puff shots with Tanev, Hutton, Hughes, Stecher...
Edler still some some bang.. Myers has some power... We'll see about Benn.. i assume he has a shot in the territory of Gudbranson.. heavy, but without the skill for it to be as effective as it could be.

Hopefully Hughes and Stecher are working hard on their shot this season... and hopefully they stay away from Stamkos' shooting coach... useless bugger.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I don't think Gillis was a God, and at the time was perfectly OK with him being fired.

Gillis was a quality GM who was a leader who provided direction and a plan, and the organization displayed quality contract and trade negotiations with him at the helm, as well as generally positive pro scouting. His one failure - which he's admitted - was believing that his scouting staff was failing due to poor direction rather than incompetence and waiting too long to make changes there.

Benning does none of that. He's a waffling buffoon with no plan, no ability to manage a salary cap, and no ability to pro scout or identify talent to bring into the organization to build a roster. His only 'positive' trait is that he's been so bad at his job that the league has rewarded his consistent failure with high draft picks which have predictably turned into good young players.

Fair enough. I don’t quite agree with the above but much respect.

Ps - I’ve been on here today for like 10+ hours on my off day. I am a loser, lol. Heading to bed.

Cheers.

 

[CherryToke]

Hutton actually looked great at times with Tryamkin. I would have kept him for sure.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Lol, thanks.

In all honesty, I never try and “win” debates on here. I honestly just want to see where others are coming from with their viewpoints. For the life of me, I just don’t understand why there is such an extreme and over-the-top bias against the Benning regime, and such an unflinching praise of Mike Gillis. Both GM’s have and had some significant strengths while being dangerously weak in one major area. Mystifyingly, Benning gets tons of heat and almost zero praise by many (when it’s warranted), while Gillis is seen like a god on here by many. Hence - I think the underlying motivation behind the creation of this thread. Hutton (a Gillis guy) is better than Myers (a Benning guy).

The bias comes from the teams record and the overwhelming number of failures vs successes by the management.

Its not right, but its understandable.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

i am pretty sure they signed him to play with hughes. they want his offence and transition to compliment hughes. i think they figure he can figure out a way for him to support hughes defensively knowing that will be a weakness for both.

it might end up though that they are just a power play pairing though. he did not pair up with morrissey in the peg.

Our PP should be set with Boeser/Horvat/Pettersson/Miller/Hughes

 

[krutovsdonut]

Our PP should be set with Boeser/Horvat/Pettersson/Miller/Hughes

i predict they will not put hughes out as the only dman on the powerplay unless he shows a defensive ability i have not seen yet. they can try him with myers, edler and stecher.

 

[xtra]

Also the only one that brought up Gillis was Hindustan; the rest have been debating players and when he’s losing the argument/discussion he resorts to the but Gillis argument and asinine argument things like quality of hits.

Let’s also point out he’s defending Myers asa 3.75 dman (not a 3 but not quite a 4) when he doesn’t watch canucks games lives but condensed versions so I doubt he’s watching Winnipeg jets games at all. He’s just regurgitating comments from Brian “Myers is as good as Trouba” Burke as analysis of a player.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

lol, there were multiple news stories with quotes and even a video as i recall. that is a lot more substantive than the innuendo and supposition that passes for facts around here. there is literally zero basis for calling it a rumour except that it does not fit the world view of you and other posters , so you choose to doubt it.

Cool. Links?

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Seriously. Can you post without the need to personally attack someone?

"Jesus christ. I thought you were a better poster than this" and the above quote on this page alone.

How do you expect to have a conversation with people if you start every reply with an insult. Is this how you communicate in real life? I certainly doubt it.

For all the heat Hindustan takes I have seen him concede several times. Hold his own against the team tank barrage. And never feel the need to attack anyone on a personal level. Not saying he hasn't. I just have not witnessed it.

No he doesn't.

Also, can you pls stop with the personal attacks. Being called "team tank" for having a realistic view of the matters is insulting.

Seriously though. There's people out there that defy all logic for their bias then accuse everyone else of doing the same. It's projecting, it's hilarious, and frustrating.

All anyone is asking is definitive information to support their claims, yet we get called "Haters" and dismissed, even though we're in the majority, there's evidence to support our arguments.

 

[bandwagonesque]

There was a rumor that he did.

Way out of character for Ron and what he usually drafts.

But Im sure if someone wants to be, he can be convinced that that happened.

So, it appears this is actually exactly what happened, and that your implication that anyone who believed it had deluded themselves wasn't true at all. Are you able to admit that?